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Talk About Tulsa => Other Tulsa Discussion => Topic started by: dbacks fan on July 18, 2008, 03:21:11 PM

Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: dbacks fan on July 18, 2008, 03:21:11 PM
I'm curious if some of the conveneince stores there are offering a discount price if you pay cash for gas. Out here it started with Valero stations offering either 5 or 6 cents a gallon cheaper than using a credit/debit card. The price is the same as or just below Sam's Club and Costco. I have actually started carrying cash to buy gas, or go to my bank's ATM (no service charge) and getting cash to pay for gas. Right now I'm saving about $14 a month and my wife is saving just over $20 a month.
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: Michael71 on July 18, 2008, 03:40:13 PM
I don't think they do that any more.  I haven't seen it anywhere in a while.  The gas stations really don't make alot of $ on gasoline.  About 2-3 cents on average.

http://www.slate.com/id/2100546/
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: dbacks fan on July 18, 2008, 03:45:51 PM
What the stations out here are doing is trying to save on the fees they pay everytime some one uses a credit card. AM/PM Arco out here tags on a 45 cent charge if you use a credit or debit card.
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: Michael71 on July 18, 2008, 04:22:19 PM
Exactly!!!  This is why most places give you the option to enter your PIN when using a debit card...they get charged less...much less!!!  Most will make it look like you HAVE to enter your PIN, but you can just hit cancel & it will process as a credit card.  This is also why you will see small businesses have a minimum amount to use a card.

Wal-Mart had a huge hand in this because of their lawsuit.
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V123/N22/debit_22.22w.html

If you have ever tried to use a credit Visa/MC @ Sam's...it's impossible.  You can use your debit card & enter your PIN, but not a credit card other than AMEX & maybe Discover.

I HATE entering my PIN because of the security factor.  Cameras could be watching, crooks, etc...

I am ashamed to admit it...but, out of spite to Wal-Mart, I always hit cancel & run it as a credit card.(although I rarely shop there).  If it's a company I respect, I will enter my PIN.[:I]

Credit card companies also charge more to the merchant if the card is not physically swiped through the reader.(i.e.--your mag stripe is ruined)  Pizza places that deliver & take your credit card info over the phone have battled this because there is almost never a physical card involved.
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: Red Arrow on July 18, 2008, 10:22:24 PM
If I am at a locally owned store, I will ask if they want a check or credit card. Mostly they say either one. They may be afraid of an undercover check by the credit card companies. If I can, I write a check to let them avoid the CC Co charges.
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: TheArtist on July 18, 2008, 10:30:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelWayne_71

Exactly!!!  This is why most places give you the option to enter your PIN when using a debit card...they get charged less...much less!!!  Most will make it look like you HAVE to enter your PIN, but you can just hit cancel & it will process as a credit card.  This is also why you will see small businesses have a minimum amount to use a card.


I think you have it backwards. You get charged more when you use a credit card versus when you use a debit card. Most places I have been to the default seems to be the credit card and they charge you for using it. Some places, even if you use a debit card and you push credit card, you get charged more. You want to use your pin so you dont get charged the credit card fee.


Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: Hoss on July 18, 2008, 11:35:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:
Originally posted by MichaelWayne_71

Exactly!!!  This is why most places give you the option to enter your PIN when using a debit card...they get charged less...much less!!!  Most will make it look like you HAVE to enter your PIN, but you can just hit cancel & it will process as a credit card.  This is also why you will see small businesses have a minimum amount to use a card.


I think you have it backwards. You get charged more when you use a credit card versus when you use a debit card. Most places I have been to the default seems to be the credit card and they charge you for using it. Some places, even if you use a debit card and you push credit card, you get charged more. You want to use your pin so you dont get charged the credit card fee.






Problem with that is, not all banks are networked for debit.  I switched from Bank of America to Bank of Oklahoma.  BOA was networked for debit, so when I payed for my gas at the pump, if I pressed debit it would ask for my pin.  BOK doesn't do that and it's a little bit of a pain.

Oh well...I don't get charged extra, at least so far.
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: cannon_fodder on July 19, 2008, 12:47:06 AM
I think the only way you can save now is by using THEIR credit cards.
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: TheTed on July 19, 2008, 02:40:34 AM
The first few times I tried to use my BOK card I was very confused. I'd enter my pin and it'd deny me. Every other bank I've had allowed me to use my debit card as a debit card.

I guess BOK wants to make sure I pay their ATM fees when I'm out of town instead of letting me go to Walgreens, buy a pack of gum, and get cash back.
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: Wilbur on July 19, 2008, 07:02:39 AM
Oklahoma (one of ten states) makes it illegal to charge more in a transaction when someone chooses to use a credit card.

Nothing says the store has to accept credit cards, but if they do, they are prohibited from charging someone more for using the card.

Look at Title 14A, Article 2, Section A:

"No seller in any sales transaction may impose a surcharge on a cardholder who elects an open-end credit card account instead of paying by cash, check or similar means."
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: Nick Danger on July 19, 2008, 08:25:16 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur

Oklahoma (one of ten states) makes it illegal to charge more in a transaction when someone chooses to use a credit card.

Nothing says the store has to accept credit cards, but if they do, they are prohibited from charging someone more for using the card.

Look at Title 14A, Article 2, Section A:

"No seller in any sales transaction may impose a surcharge on a cardholder who elects an open-end credit card account instead of paying by cash, check or similar means."



Interesting -- I have a small business that I purchase goods using a CC because it is easier for me to pay one bill a month than 10-20 small ones going to different vendors. Some of them charge a "lost cash discount" to use the CC instead of open account or COD. I guess this is how they get around the CC companies' policy of no surcharge for CC usage.
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: Hoss on July 19, 2008, 09:36:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur

Oklahoma (one of ten states) makes it illegal to charge more in a transaction when someone chooses to use a credit card.

Nothing says the store has to accept credit cards, but if they do, they are prohibited from charging someone more for using the card.

Look at Title 14A, Article 2, Section A:

"No seller in any sales transaction may impose a surcharge on a cardholder who elects an open-end credit card account instead of paying by cash, check or similar means."



If that's the case, I know of one place in town (at least it did last time I checked) that is charging a 50 cent fee, and tells you as much, when you use a credit card.

Freddies on 11th at Mingo Creek is doing this.  Are they breaking the law?
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: Radio on July 19, 2008, 11:19:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelWayne_71

If you have ever tried to use a credit Visa/MC @ Sam's...it's impossible.  You can use your debit card & enter your PIN, but not a credit card other than AMEX & maybe Discover.




I am confused.  We have company Mastercards, and
they get used all the time at Sams.
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: Wilbur on July 20, 2008, 07:25:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Radio

quote:
Originally posted by MichaelWayne_71

If you have ever tried to use a credit Visa/MC @ Sam's...it's impossible.  You can use your debit card & enter your PIN, but not a credit card other than AMEX & maybe Discover.




I am confused.  We have company Mastercards, and
they get used all the time at Sams.


Sam's only accepts Discover.  That is because they have a deal with Discover.  While you normally get 1% cash back on purchases, you only get 0.25% cash back when you use your Discover at Sam's.
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: naenae42day on July 20, 2008, 10:30:01 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:
Originally posted by Radio

quote:
Originally posted by MichaelWayne_71

If you have ever tried to use a credit Visa/MC @ Sam's...it's impossible.  You can use your debit card & enter your PIN, but not a credit card other than AMEX & maybe Discover.




I am confused.  We have company Mastercards, and
they get used all the time at Sams.


Sam's only accepts Discover.  That is because they have a deal with Discover.  While you normally get 1% cash back on purchases, you only get 0.25% cash back when you use your Discover at Sam's.



That is no longer accurate.  You can use your any CC or your debit card.  It has been this way for several years.      

PER THE SAMS WEBSITE.  The last line really only pertains to AMEX.  Since they accept debit, adn most debit are VISA.  

Which forms of payment are accepted online at samsclub.com and which are accepted In-Club?
   To purchase with samsclub.com, you may use a Sam's Club Credit Account, Wal-Mart/Sam's Club Shopping Card, Check, Discover®, Visa, MasterCard® or American Express®. To purchase at a Sam's Club location, you may only use either a Sam's Club Credit Account, Discover®, MasterCard®, Debit Card, Shopping Card, Cash or Check. American Express and Visa are not accepted for In-Club purchases.
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: JoeMommaBlake on July 20, 2008, 11:29:49 PM
I may be wrong, so don't hold me to this, but if I recall from my days of working in the merchant services business, Visa and Mastercard both dictate (or at least they did at the time) that if you accept their cards at your location you are not allowed per your contract with your merchant services provider to surcharge those transactions.

Discover card does not share this policy. You may notice that Tag Agencies will allow you to pay with a Discover card but they will surcharge you for the transaction. They are not allowed to surcharge the VISA/MC so they don't accept them.

It is not uncommon for any typical retail business to pay roughly 1.6% of each standard swiped credit card transaction, plus a .20-.25 cent transaction fee. Therefore, a business that processes a million dollars a year in credit cards is paying at least 26,000 a year in credit card processing fees. It's a fun bill to get, trust me.

Most credit card processing companies surcharge the living crap out of business and hand keyed transactions. What that means is that if you pay with a corporate card or if you pay over the phone, the merchant is paying a whole lot more. Even rewards cards cost more for the merchant.

Debit cards do indeed cost the merchant far less. The day may come where everybody asks you for your pin number. It's inconvenient for restaurants to do it, but QT has figured out how to do it on every transaction and I'm sure it's saving them a fortune.

By the way....there's no real security risk to someone knowing your pin. These days, nobody is checking IDs on CC transactions so a card is a card is a card. The only advantage to knowing a pin would be for hitting up the ATM, but crooks know better. ATM machines have cameras. If your card is stolen by anyone with a brain, it'll be used at places without them.

Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: Michael71 on July 21, 2008, 04:50:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:
Originally posted by MichaelWayne_71

Exactly!!!  This is why most places give you the option to enter your PIN when using a debit card...they get charged less...much less!!!  Most will make it look like you HAVE to enter your PIN, but you can just hit cancel & it will process as a credit card.  This is also why you will see small businesses have a minimum amount to use a card.


I think you have it backwards. You get charged more when you use a credit card versus when you use a debit card. Most places I have been to the default seems to be the credit card and they charge you for using it. Some places, even if you use a debit card and you push credit card, you get charged more. You want to use your pin so you dont get charged the credit card fee.






I am referring to the fees that the merchant(any biz that accepts cards) pays to their credit card processor.

If I, the customer, use a debit card at QT...or wherever, QT gets charged more if I don't enter my PIN.  Hope I cleared that up.

FYI...I have never seen a charge from my bank...whether I use it as a credit or enter my PIN.  Maybe it's my bank
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: Michael71 on July 21, 2008, 04:59:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by naenae42day

quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:
Originally posted by Radio

quote:
Originally posted by MichaelWayne_71

If you have ever tried to use a credit Visa/MC @ Sam's...it's impossible.  You can use your debit card & enter your PIN, but not a credit card other than AMEX & maybe Discover.




I am confused.  We have company Mastercards, and
they get used all the time at Sams.


Sam's only accepts Discover.  That is because they have a deal with Discover.  While you normally get 1% cash back on purchases, you only get 0.25% cash back when you use your Discover at Sam's.



That is no longer accurate.  You can use your any CC or your debit card.  It has been this way for several years.      

PER THE SAMS WEBSITE.  The last line really only pertains to AMEX.  Since they accept debit, adn most debit are VISA.  

Which forms of payment are accepted online at samsclub.com and which are accepted In-Club?
   To purchase with samsclub.com, you may use a Sam's Club Credit Account, Wal-Mart/Sam's Club Shopping Card, Check, Discover®, Visa, MasterCard® or American Express®. To purchase at a Sam's Club location, you may only use either a Sam's Club Credit Account, Discover®, MasterCard®, Debit Card, Shopping Card, Cash or Check. American Express and Visa are not accepted for In-Club purchases.



I think that they may only take debit cards IF you enter your PIN.  I have never been able to use instore...and I try not to purchase much online so that my tax dollars stay here in Tulsa.
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: ttownclown on July 21, 2008, 07:06:09 PM
It's my understanding that if you choose "Credit" --- the transaction uses the credit card network and the merchant is charged a fee.  If you choose "Debit" and use your PIN, the transaction uses the ATM network and your Bank burdens the brunt of the  merchant fee.  

As far as stores charging you extra for using a Visa -- it is against the stores' merchant agreement with VISA.    The following is taken directly from the Visa website  - http://www.usa.visa.com/download/merchants/rules_for_visa_merchants.pdf

"No Surcharging, Always treat VISA transactions like any other transaction; that is, you may not impose any surcharge on a Visa transaction.  You may, however offer a discount for cash transactions, provided that the offer is clearly disclosed to customers and the cash price is presented as a discount from the standard price charged for all other forms of payment"
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: ttownclown on July 26, 2008, 10:16:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur

Oklahoma (one of ten states) makes it illegal to charge more in a transaction when someone chooses to use a credit card.

Nothing says the store has to accept credit cards, but if they do, they are prohibited from charging someone more for using the card.

Look at Title 14A, Article 2, Section A:

"No seller in any sales transaction may impose a surcharge on a cardholder who elects an open-end credit card account instead of paying by cash, check or similar means."



Quick question: Why are the tag agencies allowed to charge a surcharge if you use your Discover card to purchase tags?
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: tnt091605 on August 06, 2008, 07:45:22 AM
The way it was explained to me, I should look it up myself, is that according to Visa/MC that they can offer a discount for cash but not a surcharge for using a Visa/MC.
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: Michael71 on August 06, 2008, 01:33:16 PM
When it comes to fees for using credit cards...I believe it is all in the wording.

e.g.--

You can advertise a "discount" for using cash, but can't advertise higher price for using credit card.  May be different w/Discover, etc...
Title: Cash or Credit/Debit?
Post by: dbacks fan on August 06, 2008, 02:08:54 PM
An update since I started this thread. The place in particular is a Valero(Diamond Shamrock) store at the corner of Cave Creek Road and Union Hills Drive in Phoenix a 1/2 mile from my house. They are offering a discount on gas of aprroximately 6 cents per gallon for using cash. If you use credit or debit you are paying a price that is within 1 to 2 cents of the stations that are in the same trade area. I asked the manager of the station and he informed me that there staion does a high enough volume of sales in gas purchased with credit or debit that they can of the cash discount. Appeantly Valero has looked at it's stations and targeted particular ones for this program based on sales. This station in particular is always busy every morning with landscape and construction companies filling their trucks, and it is generally busy through out the day. For me the savings would be about $1.20 per week, provided I did not use their ATM which charges a $2.95 fee for withdrwalls.

I actually go to Costco that is one mile away and spend even less. As an examle this past Sunday we filled the wife truck at Costco and paid $3.63, the Valero cash was $3.73, and their credit/debit was $3.79.