I'm hoping to rent something with parking. I would prefer nice/modern, at least 2 bedrooms. Expecting to pay 1500 to 2000 per month. I am just comming back to the USA on the 14th of July for 10 days and want to look at everything available.
So far I have found Philtower, and University Club. They look rather small(I am just looking online). I have a several friends that live at Central park, and those are deffinately too small!
A penthouse would be great, of course I am willing to pay more for something really fabulous!
If anyone knows other places to look please let me know
Thanks!
quote:
Originally posted by Lora
I'm hoping to rent something with parking. I would prefer nice/modern, at least 2 bedrooms. Expecting to pay 1500 to 2000 per month. I am just comming back to the USA on the 14th of July for 10 days and want to look at everything available.
So far I have found Philtower, and University Club. They look rather small(I am just looking online). I have a several friends that live at Central park, and those are deffinately too small!
A penthouse would be great, of course I am willing to pay more for something really fabulous!
If anyone knows other places to look please let me know
Thanks!
I have a friend who has been leasing one of the Metro Lofts off of 15th, and he's been paying around $1800 a month. I think his is 2 bed/2bath plus a 2 car garage. It might have an office, too. Not sure who you would contact, but I know he's moving out of his soon...I'll see if I can get you some more information.
Thank you tulsa1603!!! [:)]
I will chase that one as soon as I get into Tulsa. I do like cherry street.
Tribune Lofts:
http://www.tribunelofts.com/
They are in the Brady District just across the tracks from Downtown in an area that is really picking up. The largest unit available atm is 2300sq feet for $2200 a month. 1150 sq ft is $1320 a month. As I understand it everything is top notch.
(http://www.tribunelofts.com/images/PB301179.JPG)
On the other side of downtown are the Renaissance Uptown Apartments. More like standard apartments, but by all accounts very nice. (couldn't find a web page in a brief search)
The Philtower has apartments available with 1600 sq ft for $2400 a month. If your budget is $2000, I'd say size is not your limiting factor (ie. you won't probably find nice & modern over 1600 sq. ft. for $1500 a month). Some of the ones on the 12th - 14th floors have terraces with them. The 12th floor having private terraces up to 1400 S.q feet... that'd just be cool. [^]
Seems there is very little in the way of contemporary, urban, living options in Tulsa. Is it not being built here because of lack of demand? Or because major Tulsa developers just dont think about it? The Cherry Street Lofts and such are great, but thats just one type of option. We dont really have one typical, contemporary, mid-rise option for instance. Other cities around us and elsewhere have been building dozens of them for ages now. KC, Denver, Austin, St Louis, Dallas, Ft Worth, etc.
These are your average, everyday loft/condos in most cities. Yet when many people I know come to Tulsa to look for a place to live... they say they cant find anything lol.
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6081/lofts80le1.jpg)
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5696/loftcimg0139bs6.jpg)
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6940/loft2xv2.jpg)
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8816/loftsbb041101038l3ev6.jpg)
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Tribune Lofts:
http://www.tribunelofts.com/
They are in the Brady District just across the tracks from Downtown in an area that is really picking up. The largest unit available atm is 2300sq feet for $2200 a month. 1150 sq ft is $1320 a month. As I understand it everything is top notch.
(http://www.tribunelofts.com/images/PB301179.JPG)
On the other side of downtown are the Renaissance Uptown Apartments. More like standard apartments, but by all accounts very nice. (couldn't find a web page in a brief search)
The Philtower has apartments available with 1600 sq ft for $2400 a month. If your budget is $2000, I'd say size is not your limiting factor (ie. you won't probably find nice & modern over 1600 sq. ft. for $1500 a month). Some of the ones on the 12th - 14th floors have terraces with them. The 12th floor having private terraces up to 1400 S.q feet... that'd just be cool. [^]
I hope that pic isnt an example of "top notch" those cabinets are ratty looking. Whats up with the white trash faucet and refrigerator? The refrigerator doesnt even fit in that spot properly. Hardly a designer kitchen. egads [B)]
quote:
I hope that pic isnt an example of "top notch" those cabinets are ratty looking. Whats up with the white trash faucet and refrigerator? The refrigerator doesnt even fit in that spot properly. Hardly a designer kitchen. egads [B)]
Is that supposed to be a built in desk next to the fridge??
quote:
Originally posted by safetyguy
quote:
I hope that pic isnt an example of "top notch" those cabinets are ratty looking. Whats up with the white trash faucet and refrigerator? The refrigerator doesnt even fit in that spot properly. Hardly a designer kitchen. egads [B)]
Is that supposed to be a built in desk next to the fridge??
Hey, thems some fancy accoutrements for Tulsa lol.
I actually think it looks kinda cool. There are different things that I would have but overall not too shabby. Then again, I'm a young professional... what do I know?
The picture was just a random grab from their website (not even focused well). And while I certainly would have done things different (the desk area is just odd), I can attest that the kitchen is nicer than mine, if not top notch. But I did not realize it was "white trash." The sink is similar to mine, the counter nicer, I don't have an island nor stone, and there is more space than my humble home.
Do you need a marble sink basin to avoid being white trash? I've seen plenty in bathrooms, but most people don't want to worry about staining their stone sink. But, I guess I'll wear my lack of attention to the sink in a photo as a badge of masculine pride. [;)]
Don't forget about Utica Place, I think there are some penthouses available there now. Best location in town for sure! I'm unsure on the pricing though, perhaps it wasn't mentioned due to being way past the budgets of mere mortals?
http://uticaplace.com/floor_plans.html
I believe Utica Place is 'selling' not 'leasing' the penthouses. Residence prices range from $750,000 to $2.5 million.
Metro Lofts (//%22http://www.tulsalofts.net/homes/lease.php%22) website only shows one 'house' for lease. But then again, TulsaNow member, 'tulsa1603', has a friend that's about to end a lease with Metro Lofts.
You've looked at Philtower online, but they are probably going to be your best bet. You wanted, I'm hoping to rent something with parking. I would prefer nice/modern, at least 2 bedrooms.
You may also consider a Midtown home for lease. There are many available in the areas you mentioned.
Good luck, and welcome back to TULSA!
So this thread turns into the fashion police...
I have almost the same cabinets, backsplash and sink in my home. Ours were all custom made from the finest maple...our travertine backsplash has handcarved leaf inlay...they both look beautiful.
Come-on Artist. Not everybody turns their home into a ancient palace.
Here's some pics of a Mayo apt. (//%22http://www.flickr.com/photos/rrgelder/sets/72157604697622209/%22). Possibility? Don't know anything else about them.
The 420 Mayo website (//%22http://www.mayo420.com/index.html%22).
Heh. 420. [:P]
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
So this thread turns into the fashion police...
I have almost the same cabinets, backsplash and sink in my home. Ours were all custom made from the finest maple...our travertine backsplash has handcarved leaf inlay...they both look beautiful.
Come-on Artist. Not everybody turns their home into a ancient palace.
You didn't use recycled products in your home??[}:)]
Yes.
The cabinets were purchased at the Habitat for Humanity reStore. My wife found them. I winced when she told me that she was buying used cabinets, but they are beautiful.
Recycled building items are getting pretty mainstream. The carpet in my office is made from recycled water bottles, the benches from recycled soap jugs, and all steel used in America now contains at least 55% recycled steel.
www.uticaplace.com
They have penthouses available. Nothing money can't cure.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
So this thread turns into the fashion police...
I have almost the same cabinets, backsplash and sink in my home. Ours were all custom made from the finest maple...our travertine backsplash has handcarved leaf inlay...they both look beautiful.
Come-on Artist. Not everybody turns their home into a ancient palace.
Hey now, those cabinets and everything else in that kitchen are better than what I have lol. But I know I AM white trash lol. This person said they wanted something "nice/modern" and " willing to pay for something really fabulous." Just making an assumption on what that means to the kind of person who likes that type of thing. Penthouse, something with parking, nice/modern, looked at highrise living options...
Then here again people on this thread are mentioning renting a house.... Lots of people do not like living in houses. Tulsa is great if you want and like the house with a yard thing. But please understand, lots of people would absolutely not want something like that. Cant speak for this person in general, but a lot of people I know dont want that at all. People say Tulsa is a great place to live, with lots of great places to choose from.... IF you like the suburban lifestyle. But that seems to automatically be the default suggestion from people on here. I wish they would just understant thats not what everyone likes.
How many new people have we had come on here asking pretty much for the same thing? They ask for the urban type living areas, something contemporary, etc. Then we get a lot of posts on here suggesting houses or suburban South Tulsa lol. We have had quite a few people come on here asking for similar things and sometimes voicing some frustration at not really finding what they are looking for. What many a Tulsan may like or think is nice, isnt necessarily what a lot of other people, especially some of the younger ones who are moving in, are looking for or think is nice.
Not much we can do about it really. Hopefully as more people move in wanting those things, they will get built. The Bomasada development will be nice. The mixed use one across from the ballpark could be another, plus the one that the developer from Cali may do off of 15th street by the Synagogue. Have no idea what thet the 1st Lofts will be like, but that could be another option. Stuff is in the pipeline which could be relatively nice. That pic of the Tribune loft... was in no way "fabulous". Dont meant to be rude, but you got to understand what is available in other cities, thats even average there of this type of living option, and how those compare to that, which a lot seem to consider nice here. It doesnt compare very well. Its Tulsa, its a beautiful small city, we have had some hard times, and dont have a large young urban class, but we are getting there. Bout all you can say on the expectation side of things.
Lots of great suggestions while I slept, thank you.
The parking issue is, unfortunately, a big one for me. I am regularly out of the country for months on end. I need secure parking for two cars.
I really like the look of the mayo. I did not realize they were ready. I tried to speak with them at one point, but always got a recording, finally one call back, which I missed, at around 3am my time. I am in Sydney.
The budget isn't super strict. I would be willing to pay 2500. If it were an amazing place probably more.
I really hate to be extravagant when I know I will be living there less than half the time. I do want to feel comfortable. I'd like to have room for all of my furniture and art, but that is unlikely.
I don't want a rental house, as maintenance is such an issue. I pay nearly $2500 now for a rental house with a leaking ground level and severely flooding basement. Not nice to come home to a house that is flooded. [:)] Much worse than having a white trash faucet. [;)]
I do like Utica Place, from the floor plans, but it does look as though they are all for sell rather than lease.
So at this point I will be able to talk to a realtor/rental agent about:
Tribune Lofts,Mayo,Metro Lofts,Philtower,& Liberty tower (found on craigs list) and I can ask about Utica Place even though they don't list any as being for lease.
Not a bad start.
I am on a 1:45 flight to the USA tommorrow! I can not wait to be in Tulsa!
I'm recalling one from memory....I will make a point to drive by it for you today and get the name and address.....
Ok...Here it is.....http://www.sophianplazapark.com/
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
Ok...Here it is.....http://www.sophianplazapark.com/
Nice building, but not rentals.
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
Ok...Here it is.....http://www.sophianplazapark.com/
Nice building, but not rentals.
I know someone who rents there. (http://members.cox.net/tulsamini/shrugs.gif)
However, I will say they have been there forever. Seems those who are there, stay.
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
Ok...Here it is.....http://www.sophianplazapark.com/
Nice building, but not rentals.
I know someone who rents there. (http://members.cox.net/tulsamini/shrugs.gif)
However, I will say they have been there forever. Seems those who are there, stay.
Thank You......
I guess I'm proof of why suburbia exists. I can't imagine paying $18000 to $24000 or more per year for a stack of rent receipts. That will pay for a LOT of gas and parking fees. If that's what you want, fine. Count me out.
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow
I guess I'm proof of why suburbia exists. I can't imagine paying $18000 to $24000 or more per year for a stack of rent receipts. That will pay for a LOT of gas and parking fees. If that's what you want, fine. Count me out.
I imagine she knows that already...Thank You very little....
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow
I guess I'm proof of why suburbia exists. I can't imagine paying $18000 to $24000 or more per year for a stack of rent receipts. That will pay for a LOT of gas and parking fees. If that's what you want, fine. Count me out.
Thats so sad on sooo many levels. And you probably dont have a clue as to one of them. But ya know, to each his own. Just please dont assume that what you accept as normal and good others do. You want to spend your days sitting in a car going from place to place, sending your money to the middle east, creating smog, living in some uninteresting, isolated, same ol same ol place, in a house that looks very much like every house on the street, on a street that looks very much like every other street in the subdivision, in a subdivision that looks very much like every other subdivision along an arterial street that looks like everywhere America, etc. Go for it dude. Can't be everyones idea of paradise I guess.[;)]
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow
I guess I'm proof of why suburbia exists. I can't imagine paying $18000 to $24000 or more per year for a stack of rent receipts. That will pay for a LOT of gas and parking fees. If that's what you want, fine. Count me out.
Thats so sad on sooo many levels. And you probably dont have a clue as to one of them. But ya know, to each his own. Just please dont assume that what you accept as normal and good others do. You want to spend your days sitting in a car going from place to place, sending your money to the middle east, creating smog, living in some uninteresting, isolated, same ol same ol place, in a house that looks very much like every house on the street, on a street that looks very much like every other street in the subdivision, in a subdivision that looks very much like every other subdivision along an arterial street that looks like everywhere America, etc. Go for it dude. Can't be everyones idea of paradise I guess.[;)]
Yep, I'm probably clueless to your generation and attitude. As you said, to each his own. I can accept that you may want to live in some high rise building only inches from your neighbor in the concrete jungle in one building that is as bland as the one next to it. I understand not wanting to have anything around you except concrete. I have alergies. Perhaps you hate to cook and like to go out to eat. Maybe your life consists of bar hopping. Maybe in 20 or 30 years your opinion may change, maybe not. My commute time is about 15 minutes to work (not downtown). I drive 100 mi/week to work and home, the rest is personal business. Some of the houses here look similar but they are not cookie cutters. I like the fact that my neighbor can play his stereo and not bother me. To me, one high rise is as boring as another. Being able to walk to buy one meal's worth of groceries is not important. I can plan my trips to buy a few days worth. One of my cousins used to live in Boston near the Boston Commons. It was a short walk to the Esplanade (sp?) for the 4th of July shindig. Walking the Freedom Trail was fun. It was really exciting, for a visit. Beyond that, it was just another place to live. She and her husband eventually moved away. I like having room for our dogs to play in the yard without having to go to a "dog park". I don't expect you to understand or agree. All I ask is that you don't instantly condemn a lifestyle different than your own.
Embracing prices beyond the capability of most will send more people to suburbia, leaving you ever more dependent on suburbia for a tax base to support your lifestyle. Downtown needs to be affordable if you want it to thrive. That you should understand.
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow
I guess I'm proof of why suburbia exists. I can't imagine paying $18000 to $24000 or more per year for a stack of rent receipts. That will pay for a LOT of gas and parking fees. If that's what you want, fine. Count me out.
Thats so sad on sooo many levels. And you probably dont have a clue as to one of them. But ya know, to each his own. Just please dont assume that what you accept as normal and good others do. You want to spend your days sitting in a car going from place to place, sending your money to the middle east, creating smog, living in some uninteresting, isolated, same ol same ol place, in a house that looks very much like every house on the street, on a street that looks very much like every other street in the subdivision, in a subdivision that looks very much like every other subdivision along an arterial street that looks like everywhere America, etc. Go for it dude. Can't be everyones idea of paradise I guess.[;)]
Yep, I'm probably clueless to your generation and attitude. As you said, to each his own. I can accept that you may want to live in some high rise building only inches from your neighbor in the concrete jungle in one building that is as bland as the one next to it. I understand not wanting to have anything around you except concrete. I have alergies. Perhaps you hate to cook and like to go out to eat. Maybe your life consists of bar hopping. Maybe in 20 or 30 years your opinion may change, maybe not. My commute time is about 15 minutes to work (not downtown). I drive 100 mi/week to work and home, the rest is personal business. Some of the houses here look similar but they are not cookie cutters. I like the fact that my neighbor can play his stereo and not bother me. To me, one high rise is as boring as another. Being able to walk to buy one meal's worth of groceries is not important. I can plan my trips to buy a few days worth. One of my cousins used to live in Boston near the Boston Commons. It was a short walk to the Esplanade (sp?) for the 4th of July shindig. Walking the Freedom Trail was fun. It was really exciting, for a visit. Beyond that, it was just another place to live. She and her husband eventually moved away. I like having room for our dogs to play in the yard without having to go to a "dog park". I don't expect you to understand or agree. All I ask is that you don't instantly condemn a lifestyle different than your own.
Embracing prices beyond the capability of most will send more people to suburbia, leaving you ever more dependent on suburbia for a tax base to support your lifestyle. Downtown needs to be affordable if you want it to thrive. That you should understand.
Aaaah the smell of fresh skyscrapers in the morning. Cant be beat. [8D] I don't really think we Tulsans have to worry about a concrete jungle with rows of highrise buildings that all look alike. The only things we have got that are close to highrise in or near downtown this entire last decade were the Glass Cube and Utica Place. And I think you would be hard pressed to find someone that thought they looked alike. But I get your point. However, a good city isnt all about concrete, it can have tree lined streets with outdoor cafes, parks large and small sprinkled throughout for children and pets to play in. Its also about community, not sitting at home listening to music or on the computer. Its sitting in a comfortable coffee shop, working on your laptop, posting on TN [:D] there, not in some home office. Its listening to live music at a restaurant, coffe shop, cafe, outdoors with live musicians, not sitting at home listening to a CD. Its about being able to walk practically right outside your front door and finding everything you need or would want. Being able to spend the entire day in an area, whether you walked there or drove there from the suburbs, shopping, going to a movie, museum, eating, a sporting event, live music, just sitting outside at a cafe watching the people go by and chatting with friends. Its about building great community spaces and places, great streets where you can live, its about spending your money to do those things versus having a huge Mc Mansion with a media room, wine cellar, huge kitchen, high ceilings, yard that looks like a park, grand staircase, beautiful this and that etc. trying to have the world in your home then driving everywhere. Its perhaps having a small space, but then having a beautiful, large shared, public space. The grand plaza or central town squares of old. Making great, shared, community spaces and streets that work well, are beautiful and enjoyable, functional. Where it doesnt matter if your well to do or working class, those great shared spaces are there for everyone to live in.
I am sure we have very different visions of what is worthwhile and the kind of places we want to create for ourselves. But its also quite possible that somewhere between sprawling suburbia and concrete jungle, there is a sweet spot thats just right.
In [the traditional New England town], one can live above the store, next to the store, five minutes from the store or nowhere near the store, and it is easy to imagine the different age groups and personalities that would prefer each alternative. In this way and others, the traditional neighborhood provides for an array of lifestyles. In conventional suburbia, there is only one available lifestyle: to own a car and to need it for everything. - Andres Duany, "Suburban Nation"
If buildings are beautiful, higher density compounds that beauty. Conversely, if buildings are ugly, then higher density compounds that ugliness. - Vince Graham
Factors that are driving the popularity of large houses: "First, with less of a sense of community and public life in our culture, the home becomes a fortress which needs to contain everything we need, including multiple forms of entertainment, rather than basic shelter..." - designer-builder John Abrams of the South Mountain Company in West Tisbury, Mass.
A premise of the new city is that we want a society to be as egalitarian as possible. For this purpose, quality-of-life distribution is more important than income distribution. [And quality of life includes] a living environment as free of motor vehicles as possible. - Enrique Penalosa
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI
Here's some pics of a Mayo apt. (//%22http://www.flickr.com/photos/rrgelder/sets/72157604697622209/%22). Possibility? Don't know anything else about them.
The 420 Mayo website (//%22http://www.mayo420.com/index.html%22).
I think the first link might be the Mayo Hotel at 5th and Cheyenne.
The second link is the Mayo Building at 5th and Main.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
...The Philtower has apartments available...
...The 12th floor having private terraces...
I think there is a roof terrace on the north side of 12th floor for all Philtower tenants in addition to the private terraces. I think there are more private terraces on the east and west sides of the 16th floor where the tower steps back (//%22http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=q0rwrw700rxj&style=b&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=16712710&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1%22).
I like the terrazzo floors in the Philtower apartments.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
I am sure we have very different visions of what is worthwhile and the kind of places we want to create for ourselves. But its also quite possible that somewhere between sprawling suburbia and concrete jungle, there is a sweet spot thats just right.
I think "worthwile" is perhaps too strong a word. What we "want" may be better.
I'd rather sit in the spare room at my computer in my PJs at 11:00 AM on a Saturday than be on display with the latest laptop and i-Phone in a coffee shop. What's worse, I don't drink coffee. I have been to places with live musicians (not just rock groups in a motel bar). It's OK but most are just so-so. When I walk out my front door I see two huge trees that my dad planted 30 years ago. I don't want to see a StarBucks, a Subway, all those cute little shops along Memorial between 101st and 111th and Memorial (whatever they are), a Bank, etc. There is nothing wrong with them. They are within about 1/2 mile or so on Memorial. I just don't want them as my immediate neighbor. I have to go a small distance to businesses. You have to go a small distance to a park to enjoy what I have out my front and back doors. Although I personally consider lawn maintenance to be a chore required to enjoy the space around me, many enjoy the yard work as an end to itself. Not all suburbia is McMansions. Our place is about 1500 sq ft, evidently about the same as a $24000/yr apartment downtown. At that rate, you could pay cash for this place in less than 10 years. We do have a large lot and need a riding mower to cut the grass in a reasonable time. I have to admit that I have to walk a few feet to visit the neighbors, not just shout through the walls. I prefer the walk. It would be nice if there were less lights around so I could see the stars at night like we could 30 years ago. I will agree that if you want to live five feet from your neighbor, maybe you should live downtown.
Shopping is over rated as a way to pass time. I do admit to enjoy a stroll through an auto salvage yard in my younger days, wondering what caused someone to discard what appeared to be an undamaged car. Trinket shops etc are not a draw for me except as a tourist. I haven't seen any previews of movies I wanted to see lately but there is a theater 1-1/2 miles away at 101st and Memorial. I walk about 2 miles each day (weather permitting) during my lunch break. I think I could do 3 miles round trip if I chose to walk. I can enjoy a museum occasionally. Occasionally I'll get lunch at some place like Schlotsky's. I don't eat very much fast food. I take my lunch to work. I don't particularly care for sporting events. I did enjoy a trip to a Philadelphia Philly's baseball game in a previous life with other memebers of the volunteer fire company I belonged to. I remember the friends and the trip to and from the ball park more than the game. I think the Phillys lost. I would rather spend $50 on airplane gasoline than $30 on a dinner in a restaurant. Parks are nice but I'd rather spend a Saturday or Sunday afternoon with friends at a busy small airport with little planes. (OK, Jones/Riverside by Jenks isn't that small but it's not Tulsa International.) There is another airport I also frequent on weekends out in the country. A weekend on the water can also be either exciting or relaxing, whatever you want. Our family had a boat on the Chesapeake Bay (East coast stuff) during the 1960s.
I do have some references to urban living. My cousin that lived in Boston had an interesting place in the Brownstone area near the Boston Commons. It was OK. The elevator to the 5th floor held about 3 people. She had five (yes 5) locks on the door to her place, all with different keys. I think the next street over was Newberry, a shopping district. We walked over so I could see the shops. Not much was interesting. She avoided the Commons area. Too many unsavory persons. The bar that Cheers was modeled after was a short walk away. We went to a diffent one, not loaded with tourists. I was there over a 4th of July weekend. I saw the Boston Pops at the Esplanade. That was awesome. In summary, after the new wore off, her life wasn't that much different than mine.
A college friend had a place in St Louis. It was all he could afford as a mechanical engineer. The most favorably impressive thing about his place was he was allowed to have a dog. He was in a densely populated area but still had to have a car to get to work. Maybe there had been (real) trolleys there at one time but not while he was there. Overall, I was not favorably impressed.
I understand that you enjoy the things you do. I could enjoy them too, but only for a visit.
You added some stuff between when I wrote this and now. For some reason the computer logged me off. A few cuts and pastes saved me.
I believe you lump all of suburbia even more than I lump downtown. Not here, but where I grew up in suburban Philly there were small mom and pop places scattered about. We lived in a single family home. Down the street and around the corner was a row of apartments above small store fronts. The stores included a grocery, barber shop, hairdresser, variety, pharmacy, beverage (beer store in Pennsylvania), Hallmark card shop. Around another corner was a deli that made really good hoagies. A few years later a butcher shop built across from the other stores next to a Mobil gas station which was adjacent to the trolley stop. The next trolley stop up, about 1/2 mile bicycle ride or walk if you wanted, was another shopping strip. There was a real hardware store there. I forget the other stores. This was suburbia, about the distance from downtown Philly as Bixby is from downtown Tulsa.
When the family moved to 111th and Memorial in 1971, we were out in the boonies, sort of. We lked it that way. As the more urban than suburban lifestyle encroaches on us, I could walk or ride a bicycle to almost anything I need.
I like the term "urban village" to describe what I am talking about. Some of the places you mention that you do like remind me of that as well. I like Brookside, Cherry Street, Utica Square... When I talk of wanting downtown to have more living or whatever, its making areas like the Brady Arts, Greenwood, Blue Dome be more like Brookside and Cherry Street, having a similar "vibe" and activity level. Actually hopefully even more for there are different "scales" to that term Urban Village, but it still describes the balance and feel your going for, regardless of how tall the buildings happen to be. I have seen streets and areas in cities that have lots of buildings but because of the trees, nearby park space, etc. the streets feel cozy and inviting.
When I am talking about shopping, its not just for the act of going shopping, its about your daily/ weekly needs. Although I would indeed find it interesting to go a few blocks or so away and find say an art gallery district for example. But mainly its like when I stayed in Paris. Within walking distance there was a small grocery store, a place to buy clothes, the barber, a bank, places to eat and hang out, etc. It was like your classic main street just with a different backdrop and some really fancy architecture lol.
I can imagine why you like the suburbs, and not all suburban areas are the same. And yes I steryotyped you on purpose. For you seem to not be able to understand why some people like urban areas, and not all of them are the same. I think suburban areas can be either well done or poorly done, same thing with urban areas. The best cities offer the best of both for people who like each. I just want to see some more good, dense, urban areas, for those of us who like that. And there are those of us who do believe it or not lol. But if anyone picks on my choice... Its fair for me to pick on theirs. [8D]
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Red Arrow
I guess I'm proof of why suburbia exists. I can't imagine paying $18000 to $24000 or more per year for a stack of rent receipts. That will pay for a LOT of gas and parking fees. If that's what you want, fine. Count me out.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
For you seem to not be able to understand why some people like urban areas, and not all of them are the same.
But if anyone picks on my choice... Its fair for me to pick on theirs.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Red Arrow
I guess I'm proof of why suburbia exists. I can't imagine paying $18000 to $24000 or more per year for a stack of rent receipts. That will pay for a LOT of gas and parking fees. If that's what you want, fine. Count me out.
I understand why someone would want to do the urban thing, especially if you have the $ to do it nicely as the original poster here evidently does. For someone here (or anyplace) only part time, an apartment makes good sense. It's obviously not my choice but as you can see in my original statement; "If that's what you want, fine." As you also said, "But if anyone picks on my choice... It's fair for me to pick on theirs." I feel the same way. Unfortunately, you and I got to pick on each other. Chicken and egg, which came first? Not necessarily you personally, but the forum in general seems to believe that suburbia will lead to the fall of civilization as we know it. I feel like I got picked on first.
My vision of "urban living" comes from the pictures (and some personal memories passing through) of Philadelphia where the financially less fortunate lived. I guess some would like that but I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Not everyone has the resources to live the good life in the city that Eva Gabor left on 5th Ave in NYC before being dragged to "Green Acres". (1960s TV show if you are too young to remember.)
Apartment prices of $1500 to $2000 per month seem to be pricing what I would call normal working people out living downtown. I don't believe that salaries around here will support that except for a fortunate few. The rest would be like my college friend in St Louis, priced out of a nice urban lifestyle.
Added Sunday:
Actually, $18,000 to $24,000 is a lot of rent to pay for that amount of square feet anywhere around here. The price of living space could be the topic for another entire discussion.
Your idea of an "Urban Village" sounds very much like post World War II suburbia in some parts of the country. Perhaps even more like suburbia between WW I and WW II in the Philadelphia area. The town where I grew up had its areas of nothing but houses. It also had areas along the trolley line that I think you would have liked. Only a few of the trolley stops didn't have a small commercial strip on the adjacent streets. Other areas a bit closer in to Philly were a bit more dense and develoed earlier in the 1900s.
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
Ok...Here it is.....http://www.sophianplazapark.com/
Nice building, but not rentals.
I know someone who rents there. (http://members.cox.net/tulsamini/shrugs.gif)
However, I will say they have been there forever. Seems those who are there, stay.
Its a condo building. I'm sure some owners may rent their own units out, but it is not a rental property.
quote:
Originally posted by jne
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
Ok...Here it is.....http://www.sophianplazapark.com/
Nice building, but not rentals.
I know someone who rents there. (http://members.cox.net/tulsamini/shrugs.gif)
I thought that building was for old folks?
However, I will say they have been there forever. Seems those who are there, stay.
Its a condo building. I'm sure some owners may rent their own units out, but it is not a rental property.
I thought that building was a retirement community?
quote:
Originally posted by jne
I thought that building was a retirement community?
Nope. I've got a friend (slightly older than I am) who lives there.
Red Arrow:
I understand where you are coming form, but consider this. A young professional working as an attorney, engineer, MD, professor, or even some lab techs make $50,000/yr plus. The apartments we are describing are in the general range of what is normal in the United States. MOST American's spend 25 - 33% of their income on housing. Consider that many of those people would have a roommate or a live-in girlfriend and the expense is a non-issue.
Now consider Artists "urban village" scenario. Where your car is secondary if needed at all. An average Tulsan drives nearly 15,000 miles per year, at the IRS cost rate of 55 cents a mile... that's nearly $700 a month. Figure we spend half of that if we have a downtown commute, so knock $350 off the rent. In a real urban environment you wouldn't need a car at all (we're still in Tulsa).
Then what's your time worth? The "average" Tulsa commute is 17 minutes. We have determined that you live in the suburbs and thus probably have a longer than average commute. So lets pretend it's 22.5, for a round trip of 45 minutes. 250 working days in a year (250*45/60) or about 188 hours of commute time a year. Break that out monthly to 16 hours - my free time is worth $25 an hour (arbitrary number but very reasonable IMHO) or another $400 a month.
So ignoring the convenience some people find in urban living, ignoring the "coolness" or the desire to have a yard, and just looking at it financially - it can make sense. Just those factors can slip the cost down $750 a month. So the $1500 a month apartment can be seen as having a functional cost of $750 a month, probably about what he'd pay for a marginal rent house and the ability to enjoy a morning commute and car problems.
I split the difference and live in Midtown. I have a boy and a couple large dogs, so urban living is not "it" for me. But I greatly appreciate the concept. If nothing else, dense living saves the city a boat load of money in roads, police, fire, and other services. So why not. [:)]
Not really a reason in and of itself, just trying to illustrate that there are other ways of looking at it. It could also be that this person lived in an urban environment and is used to it. Perhaps they want to be on the "cutting edge" of revitalizing downtown. Maybe they work all hours. Who knows. But if someone wants to pay $1500 a month to live in an area of town I really want to see alive, I more than happy to give them as much advice as I can.
CF:
We all need to remind ourselves that something is worth what someone who doesn't need it is willing to pay someone who has it but doesn't need to sell it. I was told that was the definintion of "Fair Market Value". I don't know the original source. In a group as diverse as this forum, there will be differences of opinion in the value of everything.
Having said that, I feel compelled to comment on your comments. Hey, this is a forum and I have found this discussion interesting.
Most Americans spend 25% or more of their income on housing because they have to spend that to get what they want. Housing, like gasoline, is not truly a fair market item. Most Americans are in debt up to their ears. They are not saving for retirement. They have no cash reserve for much of anything. A young professional will probably be single, at least for a while. If they are renting, there is no mortgage deduction on their income tax. By the time the Feds, Social Security, Oklahoma and deductions for 401K, health insurance and maybe some savings for items like vacations, new laptop computers etc are considered, they may take home as little as 50% of their gross income. Now our $50,000 young professional has about $2100/mo to live and enjoy life. A roommate now is a financial necessity if you want that $1500/mo apartment. A live-in girlfriend may or may not help in that regard. I wouldn't expect a person to furnish the apartment in contemporary cinder blocks like a college student (or is $1500 a furnished and utilities paid place?). One goal of the urban lifestyle appears to be going out on a regular basis to the local entertainment and eating establishments. Is this partly because one would go stir-crazy in the apartment? In any case, going out is not inexpensive if the recent prices I have paid for a decent beer in local pubs are any indication. Shopping in local mom and pop stores will be more expensive than the WalMart that you cannot get to without a car. The price of housing could be an issue and we haven't included any transportation. Add a car because you live in Tulsa and you may be out of dollars regardless of how much you save by not commuting.
I believe the IRS rate of 55ยข assumes buying a new car and absorbing the depreciation. At 20 MPG, 15,000 miles is 750 gallons. At $4/gal that would be about $250/mo. My used car has cost about another $250/mo for the privelege of owning it. I can do much of my own maintenance. That saves about $200/mo over the IRS figures. However, my commute is about 10 miles each way across south Tulsa. I actually only drive about 10000 mi/yr including use other than going to work. Although in a real urban environment you wouldn't need a car, there would still be transportation costs. Bus, trolley, taxi fees could be easily $100/mo. Renting a car for vacation or the occasional trip would be more effective than owning a car but still not free. As a side note, when my cousin lived in Boston, she didn't need a car but chose to have one. There were things to do and places to go that public transportation didn't serve, even in Boston.
I am not self-employed and generally do not assign a dollar value to my free time. Do you assign $25/hr to the time you spend eating dinner, watching the tube, going to the store? I do assign a value when deciding whether to do a job myself or pay to have it done. I recently saved about $600 on a brake job for my car by buying OEM quality parts on the internet and spending a Saturday installing them rather than pay the dealer $100/hr plus retail price for the parts. That's more than I make in a day. I'm glad I had a place to do the job. I generally waste more time in a day than I spend commuting. I wish I could get $25/hr for the time I have spent on this response. I'm slow at this stuff but I try to actually put some thought into my responses. (Except for a few short wise acre ones.)
So far we have gotten the $1500/mo apartment down to $750 by adding a roommate. I suggest that you could be partners in a car. That would be more effective than carpooling since you would share all the expenses like insurance, purchase cost, and maintenance. Would this $750/mo marginal rent house you mention be the solo price or the with roommate price? We need to keep our comparisons straight. I cannot argue the commute and car problems issue.
Dense living is more economical for the city than the wide-open spaces. Why does it cost more to the homeowner in terms of housing costs? Some service levels will be higher but not always.
I think that the lifestyle you choose can lead to choosing activities that reinforce that lifestyle. There is probably nothing wrong with that as long as you're happy with the choice. The best way to justify your purchases is not to justify them financially. If you have the money and want something, get it. Not everyone is so lucky.
Mostly it is about the lifestyle and what people want. But it doesnt have to be as expensive as it seems if done right.
However, the kind of YP I am talking about usually make 80,000 into the low six figures. Plus you do get a lot of young couples who havent had kids yet, dont plan on having kids, or who just have one. Pluuuus, there is a trend for lots of retired and empty nesters to want to move to more urban, walkable districts. And as you know this demographic is going to skyrocket in the near future.
As for pricing, in many cities once this type of development has taken off, it has become expensive and has spread so far that it threatened to price moderate income people out of entire areas of the city, sometimes the whole central core is where the wealthylive and the poor have been shunted off to the suburbs. "great thing for a city to have that kind of density and high tax base though" So one thing we do need to start considering is making sure a percentage of new development is affordable housing. Its very important to have in the mix. Though Tulsa isnt in a situation where thats a real problem yet. It would be wise to start considering it now and pushing for the kind of rules and regs that will enable it to happen, especially in downtown.
Red Arrow:
Good counter points. It would certainly be a stretch for someone making $50K, I was just trying to illustrate that it is a priority for some people and that it does have it's advantages. I also agree that it makes more sense in areas where housing is not close-by and affordable.
However, on the car... no. The IRS assumes it costs the average person 58.8 cents per mile. That is the amount you are allowed to deduct as a business expense for driving purposes on any vehicle per mile. You would make money on that rate driving a used Camry, and lose your shirt on a new Escalade. But on average...
But I will acquiesce that the financial argument is a loser. I was merely trying to illustrate a point, there are benefits to living downtown. Plus, it's cool. [:)]
Nothing available at the Sophian Plaza, they have a few that are leased by there owners but none available.
Nothing in Utica Place that is available to lease. I really like that place.
Philtower shows that there are heaps of 1 and 2 bedrooms available on there website, but in fact have only have 1 microscopic 2 bedroom available.
I have called Tribune Lofts and Liberty towers too set up a time to view them and haven't been called back yet! I love the slow, relaxed pace of Tulsa... but I am only here for 8 more days!
This (//%22http://tulsa.craigslist.org/apa/757010337.html%22) looks interesting. [:)]
Ohhh...It is nice!
And pricey!!
Very pricey for a place where I will spend so little time! [:)] 36K and out of the entire year I will maybe spend... 5 months in it.
It looks perfect though.
The owner is showing it on Sat.
Looked at the Tribune lofts today and may have found one I could feel comfortable in. [:)] Thank you cannon_fodder.
Looking at liberty towers penthouse on Friday.
Looking at the fabulous but pricey one that TulsaMini has just posted about on Saturday! Thank you Tulsa Mini!
The Mayo Hotel Lofts won't be ready until next spring.
TheArtist:
CF:
$80,000+ per year certainly opens up some opporunities. As TheArtist said, we need to make sure that all but the wealthiest don't get priced out of that opportunity if that is what they want.
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI
This (//%22http://tulsa.craigslist.org/apa/757010337.html%22) looks interesting. [:)]
i thought that was a residence...
what happened?
they really asking 3k/month? ouch.
anywho, always been partial to the philtower...
they have a number of vacancies... (//%22http://tulsa.craigslist.org/apa/755194645.html%22)
quote:
Originally posted by brunoflipper
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI
This (//%22http://tulsa.craigslist.org/apa/757010337.html%22) looks interesting. [:)]
i thought that was a residence...
what happened?
they really asking 3k/month? ouch.
anywho, always been partial to the philtower...
they have a number of vacancies... (//%22http://tulsa.craigslist.org/apa/755194645.html%22)
Someone just checked the Philtower. They just haven't updated their website or listings. They only have 1 small place available at this time.
The "UpTown" area should have housing costs a bit cheaper.[}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
quote:
Originally posted by brunoflipper
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI
This (//%22http://tulsa.craigslist.org/apa/757010337.html%22) looks interesting. [:)]
i thought that was a residence...
what happened?
they really asking 3k/month? ouch.
anywho, always been partial to the philtower...
they have a number of vacancies... (//%22http://tulsa.craigslist.org/apa/755194645.html%22)
Someone just checked the Philtower. They just haven't updated their website or listings. They only have 1 small place available at this time.
so which is more current their website or the craigs posting from 3 days ago?nm, guess its an bot post...
quote:
Originally posted by Lora#13;#10;
#13;#10;#13;#10;Looking at the fabulous but pricey one that TulsaMini has just posted about on Saturday! Thank you Tulsa Mini!#13;#10;#13;#10;
OK, you MUST invite me over if (WHEN!) you lease it!! (http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/characters/character0143.gif)
I will TulsaMini! [:)]
I finally got the chance to look at the Liberty Tower Penthouse today. They were working on updating it. What a shame! They have been working very hard adding fussy flowered wall paper and puffy old fashioned carpet other things things I detest. If they would allow me to make a few changes it has possibilities. The view really is fabulous. Beautiful day today so I'm sure that helps.
I only have 5 more days in the USA. I'm running out of time.
quote:
Originally posted by Lora
I finally got the chance to look at the Liberty Tower Penthouse today. They were working on updating it. What a shame! They have been working very hard adding fussy flowered wall paper and puffy old fashioned carpet other things things I detest. If they would allow me to make a few changes it has possibilities. The view really is fabulous. Beautiful day today so I'm sure that helps.
I only have 5 more days in the USA. I'm running out of time.
I lived in Liberty Towers for a couple of years (12th floor facing West). It is a great place to live and the views are unbelievable. Very convenient parking and security is pretty good. Also, it was comparably economical for the size of the apartments.
I am back in Sydney today after a few days in Singapore since leaving Tulsa.
My search was, unfortunately, fruitless on this trip, but not for lack of suggestions. Thank you all. It seem there is simply nothing available that fits at the moment. The loft at Third St and Kenosha Ave was my favourite, but the security issues of a stand alone loft in the middle of downtown were too much of a worry.
I liked the long, all white condo, on the top of the tribune lofts, but the view (parking lot) was awful.
I won't be in the United States again for around 12 weeks, but could send friends to check out anything that comes available during that time. If I'm not in a new place by the New Year the Mayo will be leasing. *sigh* Thanks once again for all the suggestions and if you hear of anything new please post or send me a message.
Wow! I feel like I just watched a reality TV show: "Can this individual find a cool place to live in downtown Tulsa before time runs out?!"
For what it's worth, here's an article from the Urban Tulsa about exploring downtown living options. It's from Oct 2007. http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A18186
Ahhh...I wish it were my biggest challenge at the moment!
I'm afraid if I had a reality show my search would be overshadowed by all the other insanity in my life.
I getting married three times on three different continents (same groom[:)]) in the next five months.
Aaah, the tricky little vagaries of living in todays modern world. [8D]
quote:
Originally posted by Lora
I getting married three times on three different continents (same groom[:)]) in the next five months.
You must really love cake.
Are they all open bar?
Also, do you think you'll be able to pretend you're still overwhelmed by the moment... by the third moment? [:)]
The groom is English, with all his family in the UK and Europe. He has lived in Australia since he was 17.
My family (other than cousins that may be travelling) is entirely in North America now.
We have many extremely close friends here in Australia. When you are this far from home your friends unquestionably become like family.
We considered having one wedding, but the cost and complications were much worse than three weddings, elderly family members that aren't fit enough to travel a great distance, huge number of people that would be deeply hurt by being left out, but simply couldn't afford to pay for their own flights and accommodations... so here we are.
Everyone has a wedding in their general area so no one is left out.
We each only get one wedding where our family is with us so I think that, where as the US wedding will be the most special to me, the UK wedding will mean the most to him. The Australian wedding will be easy and fun. We are at the Park Hyatt across from the Opera house with all of our friends.
We have decided we want to keep each other forever, that is the important part. At the end of the day, the wedding is for your friends and family, so that they get to share in that.
quote:
Originally posted by Lora
The groom is English, with all his family in the UK and Europe. He has lived in Australia since he was 17.
My family (other than cousins that may be travelling) is entirely in North America now.
We have many extremely close friends here in Australia. When you are this far from home your friends unquestionably become like family.
We considered having one wedding, but the cost and complications were much worse than three weddings, elderly family members that aren't fit enough to travel a great distance, huge number of people that would be deeply hurt by being left out, but simply couldn't afford to pay for their own flights and accommodations... so here we are.
Everyone has a wedding in their general area so no one is left out.
We each only get one wedding where our family is with us so I think that, where as the US wedding will be the most special to me, the UK wedding will mean the most to him. The Australian wedding will be easy and fun. We are at the Park Hyatt across from the Opera house with all of our friends.
We have decided we want to keep each other forever, that is the important part. At the end of the day, the wedding is for your friends and family, so that they get to share in that.
Wow, I couldn't imagine doing the whole production 3 times!
I just had a planned elopement downtown the other weekend (just us,BM,MOH,and minister)to avoid all the drama and stress. (we've been together for like 7 1/2 years) It was like a Vegas wedding in Tulsa:) Then we had a reception for family and friends later in the day. We had a lot of friends come to town and attend our reception and the Dfest. I think we did our part to make Tulsa look cool:) They dug it!
I am very jealous jne! I would elope in a heartbeat.
Great idea using dfest!
I would lose a lot of money in deposits and such, but if my groom were willing to elope, I wouldn't mind losing the money.
He is being the adult in this situation. I have said several times 'Come on, we can just run off to Fiji and elope.' [:)]
Our plan of using the Park Hyatt fell through. It is just too small for 80 to spite what they say! (http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=217561566&albumID=1204748&imageID=16534184)
So now we are back to searching for a Sydney venue.