OMG! I can't believe I asked that question. Any of you know of anyone on the horizon. My reason? I'm moving out...if another crony gets in. Yeah I know I might as well get packing. But is there any hope at all that Tulsans will rise above this crap and finally start to end the shenanigans. I thought Tulsa had lost it when Savage was voted in. I went to school with her....Jesus Palamino folks! Kitty was supposed to be the best for us and I think a week into office my brother, who was a kitty backer looked at me and admitted it was a mistake. Or, are the tentacles of the ruling families wrapped so tight around us that it will be a sham?
So I ask you guys is there anyone out there?
Happy Fourth!
quote:
Originally posted by cks511
OMG! I can't believe I asked that question. Any of you know of anyone on the horizon. My reason? I'm moving out...if another crony gets in. Yeah I know I might as well get packing. But is there any hope at all that Tulsans will rise above this crap and finally start to end the shenanigans. I thought Tulsa had lost it when Savage was voted in. I went to school with her....Jesus Palamino folks! Kitty was supposed to be the best for us and I think a week into office my brother, who was a kitty backer looked at me and admitted it was a mistake. Or, are the tentacles of the ruling families wrapped so tight around us that it will be a sham?
So I ask you guys is there anyone out there?
Happy Fourth!
Last election was a Win-Win for the ruling power establishment.
If credibility-impaired Bill MisFortune managed to eke out a re-election, then the status quo would happily continue, after having delivered a substantial portion of the Vision 2025 Billion dollar tax increase to the Flint/Rooney/Kaiser/Lorton financial interests.
If Mrs. Kitty managed to win, then the she would use her newly annointed moral authority to try to get more juicy tax gravy for the local ruling oligarchy.
Wasn't she the lead spokesperson for the Kaiser River Tax?
Fire Districts?
Build a new downtown Stadium?
Great Plains debt repayment?
Certainly, it was a Win-Win for those who always win.
[:O]
The "Kaiser" river tax was a COUNTY tax so no, the Mayor was not the lead on it. She wasn't even a very big cheerleader of it. She is a Mayor for the city that would be receiving so she was at the press conferences just like EVERY mayor would've been no matter who you elected.
I bet Taylor wins.[:D]
I've heard of this woman named Kathy Taylor.
She sounds good to me.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
The "Kaiser" river tax was a COUNTY tax so no, the Mayor was not the lead on it. She wasn't even a very big cheerleader of it. She is a Mayor for the city that would be receiving so she was at the press conferences just like EVERY mayor would've been no matter who you elected.
+1
I've often wondered why the effort on the river proposal was so half-assed. There was nowhere near the effort for V2025. Even the name was pejorative -- "River Tax." In the end, I do think KT was in favor, and she did try to get some people behind it, but there was always something weird about that campaign.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
I've heard of this woman named Kathy Taylor.
She sounds good to me.
Well, the question is the NEXT mayor after her.
You know, in 2018.
I nominate FB. He knows everything, even when he doesn't.
Found this interesting article in todays science news.
Political Participation Is Partially Rooted In Genetic Inheritance...
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080701083517.htm
I am tired of humanoid Mayors.
Vote for Robots in 2018!
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
I am tired of humanoid Mayors.
Vote for Robots in 2018!
I thought we already had a robot.
I'm not a Democrat (not a Republican either) but I'm fairly happy with the way Taylor represents tulsa.
I think priorities like the streets and other infrastructure issues should have come first over pet projects, but it's typical for every mayor to push ego items or legacy icons.
All in all I think Taylor has done a very good job and worked very hard. A very strong candidate will have to emerge for me to vote against her, and I don't see that on the horizon yet.
A serious answer cause I'm just not that funny.
Eagleton. He has been positioning himself. He is a character that can be viewed as both pragmatic and McCain type rebel with tinges of libertarian. He appeals to those active voters under 50 who want new ways of looking at problems and solving them. And he knows how the city works.
Taylor doesn't do camera work well, she doesn't really enjoy regular folks socializing and has made some controversial decisions. She seems truly boardroom material to me. Eagleton loves engaging his opponents, seeks the camera and makes people laugh.
Not my choice but he does seem like the only other stand out on that side of the isle.
I would disagree with your assessment that Taylor doesn't do socializing with regular folks very well. At each of the neighborfests this year she has among the last to leave and has gone out of her way to talk to every person there.
I agree with your assessment of Eagleton. He is very likable and has real insight on many issues. He also knows obscure facts. Last time we talked he was telling me about Glenpool oil and World War One...it was stuff I never knew.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Found this interesting article in todays science news.
Political Participation Is Partially Rooted In Genetic Inheritance...
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080701083517.htm
So are personality disorders. Combine the two and you get the Tulsa Now forums. Gee, thanks Gramma.[;)]
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Taylor doesn't do camera work well, she doesn't really enjoy regular folks socializing and has made some controversial decisions. She seems truly boardroom material to me. Eagleton loves engaging his opponents, seeks the camera and makes people laugh.
Disagree. She is everywhere. I've seen her speak and glad-hand in just about every venue and organization I am involved in, and she has even popped up in groups unexpectedly.
I find her far more accessible than our previous mayor.
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Taylor doesn't do camera work well, she doesn't really enjoy regular folks socializing and has made some controversial decisions. She seems truly boardroom material to me. Eagleton loves engaging his opponents, seeks the camera and makes people laugh.
She is around town a lot, but I don't think she's as friendly as LaFortune. That seems to be the sentiment from everyone I know. It doesn't matter to me one way if she does her job; I think she is at this point.
Disagree. She is everywhere. I've seen her speak and glad-hand in just about every venue and organization I am involved in, and she has even popped up in groups unexpectedly.
I find her far more accessible than our previous mayor.
She tries hard, I'll give her that, but she is not a natural at it. Being accessible and visible is different than being sociable. I spoke with her and got the feeling that it was work for her. But I'll concede it may have been my perception. You have to admit, the video camera is not her friend.
I think she might be a tad taller than lafortune. Not sure.
The mirror isn't, either.
An opponent should find the wall-eye camera angle used at D-fest by Flaming Lips . . . it went right up her nose as she introduced the band. I sort of felt bad for her, she was totally out of her element. Then again, she kind of brought that on herself . . . would be a funny ad, put some carnival music to it/
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
I would disagree with your assessment that Taylor doesn't do socializing with regular folks very well. At each of the neighborfests this year she has among the last to leave and has gone out of her way to talk to every person there.
I agree with your assessment of Eagleton. He is very likable and has real insight on many issues. He also knows obscure facts. Last time we talked he was telling me about Glenpool oil and World War One...it was stuff I never knew.
I didn't like her and didn't support her until I had the opportunity to be around her some on a couple of projects. She's actually got a pretty good sense of humor and she is a workaholic. Tulsa is fortunate in that regard. I think what impressed me most was at the time capsule ceremony in November, she didn't hog attention and she stayed through the duration mixing comfortably with the common folk.
I don't agree with some of her initiatives, but she's been effective at making changes instead of quietly collecting a check and keeping everything status quo. She's managed to shake up the city and I can't say that's been 100% bad.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
The "Kaiser" river tax was a COUNTY tax so no, the Mayor was not the lead on it. She wasn't even a very big cheerleader of it.
What kind of revisionist B.S. is that? She was up to her neck in it. Talk about some sorry donkey spin.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
The "Kaiser" river tax was a COUNTY tax so no, the Mayor was not the lead on it. She wasn't even a very big cheerleader of it.
What kind of revisionist B.S. is that? She was up to her neck in it. Talk about some sorry donkey spin.
She really ran a half asssed campaign. That's a fact. Several people I talked to wondered if she really supported it. It's not revisionist; my guess is that she was trying to figure out a way to spend a bunch of Kaiser's money and that was the only way.
I once heard Bob Lawless talk about why TU built the new(ish) tennis facility. He said he got a huge donation for tennis; he wanted to spend it on scholarships, but the doner said "Nope, Tennis." That's often how thing work in philanthropy I gather.
Something was always screwy with the way that whole issue was presented. V2025 had some smart politics behind it, even if you hate the policy. This was another controversial policy with really poor politics.
No doubt KT wanted the money spent in her city. She also wanted Kaiser's money. But she probably also knew about the other options on the table that appeared after the fact.
If Kathy Taylor runs as a Democrat she is toast. You can't win a Democratic primary if you can't carry North Tulsa, she won't. Even paying off influential leaders in that community for their support like she did last time won't help her win. North Tulsa will vote for an old yellow dog before they will vote for Kathy Taylor.
quote:
Originally posted by Gold
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
The "Kaiser" river tax was a COUNTY tax so no, the Mayor was not the lead on it. She wasn't even a very big cheerleader of it.
What kind of revisionist B.S. is that? She was up to her neck in it. Talk about some sorry donkey spin.
She really ran a half asssed campaign. That's a fact. Several people I talked to wondered if she really supported it. It's not revisionist; my guess is that she was trying to figure out a way to spend a bunch of Kaiser's money and that was the only way.
I once heard Bob Lawless talk about why TU built the new(ish) tennis facility. He said he got a huge donation for tennis; he wanted to spend it on scholarships, but the doner said "Nope, Tennis." That's often how thing work in philanthropy I gather.
Something was always screwy with the way that whole issue was presented. V2025 had some smart politics behind it, even if you hate the policy. This was another controversial policy with really poor politics.
No doubt KT wanted the money spent in her city. She also wanted Kaiser's money. But she probably also knew about the other options on the table that appeared after the fact.
Had it passed, you all would be singing quite a different tune, trying to give her all the credit for it's passage. Half assed? She wanted it to pass so bad she tried to bribe North Tulsa into supporting that boondoggle with promises of pools being opened, a familiar false promise that goes all the way back to the campaign trail that she still has yet to deliver. Nice try, toadies, but you won't get away with that rewrite of history.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by Gold
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
The "Kaiser" river tax was a COUNTY tax so no, the Mayor was not the lead on it. She wasn't even a very big cheerleader of it.
What kind of revisionist B.S. is that? She was up to her neck in it. Talk about some sorry donkey spin.
She really ran a half asssed campaign. That's a fact. Several people I talked to wondered if she really supported it. It's not revisionist; my guess is that she was trying to figure out a way to spend a bunch of Kaiser's money and that was the only way.
I once heard Bob Lawless talk about why TU built the new(ish) tennis facility. He said he got a huge donation for tennis; he wanted to spend it on scholarships, but the doner said "Nope, Tennis." That's often how thing work in philanthropy I gather.
Something was always screwy with the way that whole issue was presented. V2025 had some smart politics behind it, even if you hate the policy. This was another controversial policy with really poor politics.
No doubt KT wanted the money spent in her city. She also wanted Kaiser's money. But she probably also knew about the other options on the table that appeared after the fact.
Had it passed, you all would be singing quite a different tune, trying to give her all the credit for it's passage. Half assed? She wanted it to pass so bad she tried to bribe North Tulsa into supporting that boondoggle with promises of pools being opened, a familiar false promise that goes all the way back to the campaign trail that she still has yet to deliver. Nice try, toadies, but you won't get away with that rewrite of history.
I'm no toadie. I didn't vote for her the first time. But I'll probably weight your opinion a little less in the future after that nonsense.
They didn't run a smart campaign. North Tulsa wasn't what mattered -- the outlying parts county, especially Broken Arrow, were much more important. V2025 was a pig cookout -- everybody got some pork. That's smart politics (policy debateable). THe River Tax was poorly though out, even down to the name. She had to know all this; like her or dislike her, she's smart about these things.
Yes RiverTax was a huge failure for many reasons.
The organization of where the money was coming from and where it was going was not balanced. There were very clear winners and losers.
The marketing was the absolute worst I have ever seen, bar none. I can't stress this enough! There were people who are normally TulsaTax yes-men/women who were turned off by the ads. I can't even imagine what they were thinking. [:O]
Did they have a professional firm working with them for the promotion?
I think if they had reworked the plan, made it less overwhelming in scope and more inclusive to the surrounding communities, and used honest, humble advertising to ask for votes, it would have passed with ease.
The plan was an iceberg, and the "Your children will suffer if you don't vote yes" tactic was a secondary shot that helped sink that ship!
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
Yes RiverTax was a huge failure for many reasons.
The organization of where the money was coming from and where it was going was not balanced. There were very clear winners and losers.
The marketing was the absolute worst I have ever seen, bar none. I can't stress this enough! There were people who are normally TulsaTax yes-men/women who were turned off by the ads. I can't even imagine what they were thinking. [:O]
Did they have a professional firm working with them for the promotion?
I think if they had reworked the plan, made it less overwhelming in scope and more inclusive to the surrounding communities, and used honest, humble advertising to ask for votes, it would have passed with ease.
The plan was an iceberg, and the "Your children will suffer if you don't vote yes" tactic was a secondary shot that helped sink that ship!
Exactly. There was at least one very established Oklahoma group helping the marketing. From talking to one of their main guys, something was off with the whole thing.
It felt more like the effort you'd put forth for something easier like a church silent auction, rallying the troops a couple of weeks before (because that's all you really need for that). Looking back on it, the effort was never enough.
Maybe they just ran a bad campaign. But a lot of the people involved were well aware of what it would take.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
If Kathy Taylor runs as a Democrat she is toast. You can't win a Democratic primary if you can't carry North Tulsa, she won't. Even paying off influential leaders in that community for their support like she did last time won't help her win. North Tulsa will vote for an old yellow dog before they will vote for Kathy Taylor.
KT wins democratic primary by 60% or more. $100. You in?
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
If Kathy Taylor runs as a Democrat she is toast. You can't win a Democratic primary if you can't carry North Tulsa, she won't. Even paying off influential leaders in that community for their support like she did last time won't help her win. North Tulsa will vote for an old yellow dog before they will vote for Kathy Taylor.
KT wins democratic primary by 60% or more. $100. You in?
Can I get some that action, too? I'd be surprised if any Democrat ran against her. Not enough unused resources to even think about winning that primary.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
If Kathy Taylor runs as a Democrat she is toast. You can't win a Democratic primary if you can't carry North Tulsa, she won't. Even paying off influential leaders in that community for their support like she did last time won't help her win. North Tulsa will vote for an old yellow dog before they will vote for Kathy Taylor.
KT wins democratic primary by 60% or more. $100. You in?
I'll take that action, if she decides she wants another four years of abuse.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
If Kathy Taylor runs as a Democrat she is toast. You can't win a Democratic primary if you can't carry North Tulsa, she won't. Even paying off influential leaders in that community for their support like she did last time won't help her win. North Tulsa will vote for an old yellow dog before they will vote for Kathy Taylor.
That's assuming a viable Democrat will actually run against her. That's a big assumption.
I don't think this BOK lawsuit thing has hurt her much at all. Most people know that settling lawsuits is usually distasteful, but almost invariably is cheaper than fighting it out. So most will give her the benefit of the doubt.
Remember, a few months ago, she had a favorability rating of nearly 60 percent in the Oklahoma poll and a plus gap of about 25 points. That's pretty healthy. And that was before her good performance during the ice storm.
She's certainly fortunate that Tulsa and Oklahoma in general was seeing an economic surge on her watch. Even during the current slowdown, this region is doing FAR better than much of the country.
And with crime and homicides down this year so far (remember, that was a big stumbling point on LaFortune's watch) and with a whole bunch of downtown projects starting to come to fruition (Mayo Hotel, the arena, Drillers Stadium, Cyrus Avery Plaza, better downtown streets, Marshall beer [;)] ), she's going to have a lot of positives to point to come re-election time.
I with WB I hope Eagleton Runs....
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
Had it passed, you all would be singing quite a different tune, trying to give her all the credit for it's passage. Half assed? She wanted it to pass so bad she tried to bribe North Tulsa into supporting that boondoggle with promises of pools being opened, a familiar false promise that goes all the way back to the campaign trail that she still has yet to deliver. Nice try, toadies, but you won't get away with that rewrite of history.
I sensed her support as "tepid". Perhaps she was just letting the county take the lead, or perhaps she knew it wouldn't pass. The day after, she was pretty much over it and didn't throw a fit. "Let's move on, we've got more important things to do like figure out how to fix the roads." (more-or-less paraphrased). I never felt a lot of enthusiasm for the plan out of her. I don't think she wanted it to tank, but I don't think she considered it "make-or-break" at the time.
For the mayor to have come out publicly against the river tax, she would have looked stupid since the majority would have been spent in the Tulsa city limits. Plus, some of her backers were backers of the plan. I can't say I really fault anyone who worked for the chamber or other city or county bureaucracies who publicly supported it. Pretty much part of your job to promote the area and growth opportunities.
Sometimes people have to support something they aren't 100% for to keep the peace or keep a job. Several prominent backers have since told me they knew the plan was flawed.
Everyone learned something from this and they listened to the voters. Development is still continuing and more projects will be announced.
At least I've remained objective about Mayor Taylor and don't look for every opportunity to crap on her.
I would vote for her.
I know that you guys are surprised by that revelation.
I discount doubleA's opinion of her. He hates all female politicians. On this forum he has bashed Hillary Clinton, Randi Miller, Kathy Taylor, Maria Barnes, Susan Savage and many more.
I think he has female problems.
Double A definitely doesn't play well with others.
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
I with WB I hope Eagleton Runs....
ditto
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
I with WB I hope Eagleton Runs....
OMG! A glimmer of hope.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
I would vote for her.
I know that you guys are surprised by that revelation.
I discount doubleA's opinion of her. He hates all female politicians. On this forum he has bashed Hillary Clinton, Randi Miller, Kathy Taylor, Maria Barnes, Susan Savage and many more.
I think he has female problems.
I judge people by the content of their character, the conduct of their service, and their representation of their constituents. Based on that, I stand by my assessments. It's much easier to just write me off as a misogynist , though. If that's the best you can do to defend them and their disservices to Tulsa, it only serves to prove my point. Of course, you would support those who feed the greed of the family llc. Protect that pork barrel that streches all the way back to the Young administration at all costs, even if it means screwing the taxpayers. It must be nice to have a "private" business with it's own public trust (//%22http://www.cityoftulsa.org/Agendas/agendadetail.asp?T=board&Q=METROPOLITAN+ENVIRONMENTAL+TRUST%22) where you can do nothing, but sit on your fat donkey all day and post on message boards.
BTW, I was one of Maria's biggest supporters when she first ran for office. I even walked precincts and knocked doors on her behalf in the rain. Now if I were such a misogynist, why would I do that?
Okay, this leap of imagination is a big one, but ... The lyrics from "Easy to be hard" seem appropriate right about now.
Easy to be hard
How can people be so heartless
How can people be so cruel
Easy to be hard
Easy to be cold
How can people have no feelings
How can they ignore their friends
Easy to be proud
Easy to say no
And especially people
Who care about strangers
Who care about evil
And social injustice
Do you only
Care about the bleeding crowd?
How about a needing friend?
I need a friend
How can people be so heartless
You know I'm hung up on you
Easy to give in
Easy to help out
And especially people
Who care about strangers
Who say they care about social injustice
Do you only
Care about the bleeding crowd
How about a needing friend?
I need a friend
How can people have no feelings
How can they ignore their friends
Easy to be hard
Easy to be cold
Easy to be proud
Easy to say no
With friends like these (//%22http://www.batesline.com/archives/2008/06/down-with-the-gummint.html#comments%22), who needs enemas?
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
I with WB I hope Eagleton Runs....
I want to re-iterate. He would not be my choice for mayor, I am a Democrat you know, but it wouldn't surprise me if he were able to pull it off and he would be entertaining (give him a bowler, a cigar and a cane and he's reminiscent of Churchill). If not this next election, then the one after. She will be a formidable opponent should she decide to run again.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
I with WB I hope Eagleton Runs....
I want to re-iterate. He would not be my choice for mayor, I am a Democrat you know, but it wouldn't surprise me if he were able to pull it off and he would be entertaining (give him a bowler, a cigar and a cane and he's reminiscent of Churchill). If not this next election, then the one after. She will be a formidable opponent should she decide to run again.
Eagleton needs to stay on the city council, where he can remain an inquiring Voice of Reason in a sea of Yes Men.
The local power establishment managed to knock off all of the Gang of Five except for Jack Henderson.
And, they tried mightily to evict him on April 1 with the Kaiser/BOK money funding an opponent.
Jack needs some help on the council. Jack and John along with Roscoe Turner were the primary Tulsa politicians openly against the Kaiser River Tax.
You're not going to get anything but a rubber stamp from the likes of David Patrick, LaFortunate Light Buynumb, Mr. Martinet, Gomez- Pyle, Christiansen, or Troyer.
[:o)]
Christiansen will run....probably win. All he has to do is provide a summary list of da mare's failures over the last year...including the latest foisting of 7.1 mill taxpayer dollars.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
Christiansen will run....probably win. All he has to do is provide a summary list of da mare's failures over the last year...including the latest foisting of 7.1 mill taxpayer dollars.
Either Bill Christiansen or fellow city councilor Bill Martinsen might be the likeliest GOP candidates.
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
Christiansen will run....probably win. All he has to do is provide a summary list of da mare's failures over the last year...including the latest foisting of 7.1 mill taxpayer dollars.
Either Bill Christiansen or fellow city councilor Bill Martinsen might be the likeliest GOP candidates.
cant say I'd want martinsen. here of late he has voted for some really stupid ****. and his streets plan sucks.
If some DUMB-donkey 19-year-old kid can put ding-donkey Muskogee on the map and get with Jay Leno, imagine what Santa could do for Tulsa. [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by tulsarufflebutt
If some DUMB-donkey 19-year-old kid can put ding-donkey Muskogee on the map and get with Jay Leno, imagine what Santa could do for Tulsa. [:D]
He's obviously not very dumb if he got elected...as to the rest of it....
(http://ratonland.org/img/articles/bunny-pancake.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by tulsarufflebutt
If some DUMB-donkey 19-year-old kid can put ding-donkey Muskogee on the map and get with Jay Leno, imagine what Santa could do for Tulsa. [:D]
(http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10071/picard-no-facepalm.jpg)
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by tulsarufflebutt
If some DUMB-donkey 19-year-old kid can put ding-donkey Muskogee on the map and get with Jay Leno, imagine what Santa could do for Tulsa. [:D]
(http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10071/picard-no-facepalm.jpg)
You know, you and I don't usually see eye-to-eye, but in this case we do. That's a great picture for this.