I do have a question regarding what I read about the use of the donations from area citizens to our public colleges in the World this morning.
Is there a reason Universities would chose to fund professorships over finiancial aid for students?
I'm not saying what they've done with the donations is wrong, just questioning how the decision process works in prioritizing endowments, grants, and donations.
Just curious, I have no hidden agenda on the matter.
Also, lost in the PR about the Kaiser Foundation's $25mm gift to OU, OSU, and TCC is the Mitchell Family's $57.2mm gift to OSU. Not bad for a Family Relations and Agriculture grad.
"Oklahoma State University announced Thursday a gift of $57.2 million from a Texas oilman and his wife.
The donation from Malone and Amy Mitchell was made through the donation of a million shares of SandRidge Energy stock and will be split between the Spears School of Business and the athletic department, according to a news release.
With $22 million designated for chairs within the business school, the academic gift will have an impact of $94.6 million after matched by the Oklahoma State Regents for Higher Education, as well as Boone Pickens' $100 million chair match commitment. This places the gift's total cumulative academic and athletic impact at $123.2 million."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=12&articleID=20080626_12_STILL26771
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
I do have a question regarding what I read about the use of the donations from area citizens to our public colleges in the World this morning.
Is there a reason Universities would chose to fund professorships over finiancial aid for students?
I'm not saying what they've done with the donations is wrong, just questioning how the decision process works in prioritizing endowments, grants, and donations.
Just curious, I have no hidden agenda on the matter.
Also, lost in the PR about the Kaiser Foundation's $25mm gift to OU, OSU, and TCC is the Mitchell Family's $57.2mm gift to OSU. Not bad for a Family Relations and Agriculture grad.
"Oklahoma State University announced Thursday a gift of $57.2 million from a Texas oilman and his wife.
The donation from Malone and Amy Mitchell was made through the donation of a million shares of SandRidge Energy stock and will be split between the Spears School of Business and the athletic department, according to a news release.
With $22 million designated for chairs within the business school, the academic gift will have an impact of $94.6 million after matched by the Oklahoma State Regents for Higher Education, as well as Boone Pickens' $100 million chair match commitment. This places the gift's total cumulative academic and athletic impact at $123.2 million."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=12&articleID=20080626_12_STILL26771
IF it up to a university, and this is just my theory, I think they are obviously going to go for what improves a university the most. Scholarships and fee waivers make it more accessible to more people, which is great from an altruistic standpoint, but by improving the quality of staff, facilities, etc., you make the university more desirable. If a university is desirable enough, good students will come, whether they have to pay or not. If a school doesn't have a reputation for having the best of everything, then it's less desirable, and if it's giving away tuition, it becomes even less desirable. Would you rather go to Harvard which charges a fortune per year, or some mediocre state school that you can go to for almost nothing. Besides, I think in the scheme of schools, our public universities are still very affordable (relatively speaking).
I thought the 57M donation got it's own headline too. last week.
There was a rather large ad in today's paper on page 3 with a very large photo of the donors saying THank you. And it mentioned the amount.
I doubt this is the last donation Kaiser makes to area universities. Of the local colleges though OSU-Tulsa needs the money the most so it can grow and help revitalize downtown. OU-Tulsa seems to be well taken care of and TCC is doing well, yet OSU seems to be forgotten. It would be nice to see some of those big donations have something earmarked for the Tulsa campus which could one day be bigger and more important than the one in Stillwater.
quote:
Originally posted by SXSW
I doubt this is the last donation Kaiser makes to area universities. Of the local colleges though OSU-Tulsa needs the money the most so it can grow and help revitalize downtown. OU-Tulsa seems to be well taken care of and TCC is doing well, yet OSU seems to be forgotten. It would be nice to see some of those big donations have something earmarked for the Tulsa campus which could one day be bigger and more important than the one in Stillwater.
Wow, doesn't any of that money from TeeBoone get funneled down the chain?
quote:
Originally posted by SXSW
I doubt this is the last donation Kaiser makes to area universities. Of the local colleges though OSU-Tulsa needs the money the most so it can grow and help revitalize downtown. OU-Tulsa seems to be well taken care of and TCC is doing well, yet OSU seems to be forgotten. It would be nice to see some of those big donations have something earmarked for the Tulsa campus which could one day be bigger and more important than the one in Stillwater.
Not private funds, but OSU Tulsa did get some Vision 2025 love in the form of a pretty good expansion at it's north location.
quote:
Originally posted by SXSW
I doubt this is the last donation Kaiser makes to area universities. Of the local colleges though OSU-Tulsa needs the money the most so it can grow and help revitalize downtown. OU-Tulsa seems to be well taken care of and TCC is doing well, yet OSU seems to be forgotten. It would be nice to see some of those big donations have something earmarked for the Tulsa campus which could one day be bigger and more important than the one in Stillwater.
I think thats exactly what they are afraid of and why OSU Tulsa hasnt been seeing the expansions they promised. Last time I checked the enrollment numbers, OSU at Stillwater was showing declining numbers, while OSU Tulsa was seeing an increase. But they still keep shunting hundreds of millions of dollars to the Stillwater campus.
Where would you rather go to college? OSU by a budding; arts/entertainment/club/restaurant/arena district and a cities downtown... or, OSU in the sticks?
Seems like a good chunk of students that go to OSU come from the Tulsa region as well. As OSU, OU, NSU, TCC, and TU continue to expand and compete, its inevitable that more students will choose to stay in or come to Tulsa. Especially if your a non traditional student, or a part time student who has a job, perhaps a beginning career, and possibly a family.
Conan:
I can think of three good reason to fund professors.
1) Facilities do not make a top-notch institution. They can help by helping to attract better students and employees, but of themselves they don't matter that much. Plus, they can be bought on notes, you can't "buy" professors on loans.
2) Nearly any student can go to college on loans. There are entire departments dedicated to getting cheap loans (my student loans, which rival my mortgage, are at 4.2%), grants, scholarships, and other money for students. The Stafford/Perkins loans max out at (I believe) $19,500 a year. Tuition at a state school is around $6,000 for a full year.
Also, many private foundations, churches, and other organizations fund scholarships. It is much harder to raise money to chair a professorship.
And finally, TCC is free to Tulsa County residents. If, for whatever reason, you can not afford or are not sure college is the way you want to go - go to TCC for a few semesters and transfer the credits over if you decide to continue.
3) When institutions are compared against each other the #1 factor is reputation. Which can be best bolstered by having a few "big names" in a given field. Other criteria include student to faculty ratio and selectiveness of the student body... both of which can be bolstered with highly desirable faculty.
- - -
It's a sound investment. A glut of motivated and educated young people will do more for a community than anything else I can think of.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
I think thats exactly what they are afraid of and why OSU Tulsa hasnt been seeing the expansions they promised. Last time I checked the enrollment numbers, OSU at Stillwater was showing declining numbers, while OSU Tulsa was seeing an increase. But they still keep shunting hundreds of millions of dollars to the Stillwater campus.
The Tulsa campus will never be what the Stillwater campus is for many reasons. Although it isn't because of OSU holding them back. OSU doesn't decide what donor money goes to the Tulsa campus, the donors do. Most OSU alum went to school in Stillwater. They really don't care about OSU-Tulsa.
Plus, OSU-Tulsa's biggest hindrance is it limited degree offerings. That hindrance was not put in place by OSU, but by the legislature. Believe me OSU is doing all they can to broaden the academic base at OSU-Tulsa. They are also trying to get dorms built to attract more non-commuter type students. Also OSU is doing all they can to make the Tulsa and Stillwater campuses as transparent as possible. They really are just trying to make it just OSU. Not OSU-Tulsa or Stillwater.
Still, the Tulsa campus won't ever be the Stillwater campus. That campus has been around for over a 100 years. It has ton's of facilities that would take decades to come up with in Tulsa, and really there isn't any reason for them to be duplicated. BTW, Stillwater is a great place to go to school. I enjoyed the atmosphere of a college town. Something that wouldn't have happened in Tulsa.
Yes, much of what you say is true. My main concern isnt with the Stillwater campus or any other campuses, other than the ones in Tulsa county. I just want Tulsa to be able to offer a great selection of universities and programs so that it can compete with other cities on that front. It would help the economy in so many ways. Its frustrating to know people who would move to Tulsa, but cant, because the local colleges dont offer what they need. Its also frustrating to watch so many local young people who would otherwise stay in Tulsa, have to move. Its frustrating to have to watch friends move because in order for them to move up the career ladder in their field, they need to take graduate classes that arent offered locally, so they move to another city where they can. (and we wonder why some headquarters and high tech companies leave). Would be nice to see out of town students going to college in Tulsa and deciding to stay. Not to mention what a full fledged OSU campus downtown would do for downtown and the synergies it could have with the companies there. Big business working in conjuction with the university, start up companies looking for bright young students, students creating start up companies and able to "practice/get experience" by tapping into a large available market, ... just all kinds of opportunities and synergies to be had.
Having said that, we are getting there. Our college offerings are soooooo much better and more extensive than they were even 10 or 15 years ago. Things are looking up. But I am not about to stop griping about wanting OSU Tulsa to be much bigger than it is lol. Not yet anyway. [8D]
Help me to understand something. I don't follow university politics very closely, but I am curious. I read that the OSU AD donated $1 million to the school. While donations are AWESOME!! I have to wonder...WHY on earth is anyone at this school making enough money to make that kind of donation. This is still a state school right? Does anyone really deserve a million dollar salary? While I have no idea the AD's annual salary...it must be substantial to be able to give away $1 million.
I just think those kind of outrageous expenses could be put to better use. For the students..scholarships...programs..etc. All the time...not just with the occassional donation.
There is no reason OSU-Stillwater and OSU-Tulsa can't BOTH be equally respected universities. Sure the Stillwater campus has the facilities, athletics, and history but the Tulsa campus is on its way it just needs more funding. Many of the OSU alums donate to Stillwater which is why it is important for Tulsa, Tulsa County, and local donors like the Helmerichs (who donated money to build the ARTC) and Kaiser to step up.
I think the general thinking that OSU-Stillwater and Tulsa are "one" campus is fine but at the same time I'd like to see the Tulsa campus develop its own identity. A good example is in Wisconsin where UW-Madision and UW-Milwaukee are both respected universities: one more all-encompassing and agricultural in a college town (like Stillwater) and one in an urban setting with appropriate programs like business, engineering, technology, etc. (like Tulsa). Both thrive off each other and are linked through the UW name and system but have separate identities i.e. UW-Madison Badgers and UW-Milwaukee Panthers. I'd like to eventually see the same with OSU-Tulsa; stay linked through shared programs and funding to Stillwater but develop its own (non-orange and Pistol Pete) idendity in downtown Tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by SXSW
There is no reason OSU-Stillwater and OSU-Tulsa can't BOTH be equally respected universities. Sure the Stillwater campus has the facilities, athletics, and history but the Tulsa campus is on its way it just needs more funding. Many of the OSU alums donate to Stillwater which is why it is important for Tulsa, Tulsa County, and local donors like the Helmerichs (who donated money to build the ARTC) and Kaiser to step up.
I think the general thinking that OSU-Stillwater and Tulsa are "one" campus is fine but at the same time I'd like to see the Tulsa campus develop its own identity. A good example is in Wisconsin where UW-Madision and UW-Milwaukee are both respected universities: one more all-encompassing and agricultural in a college town (like Stillwater) and one in an urban setting with appropriate programs like business, engineering, technology, etc. (like Tulsa). Both thrive off each other and are linked through the UW name and system but have separate identities i.e. UW-Madison Badgers and UW-Milwaukee Panthers. I'd like to eventually see the same with OSU-Tulsa; stay linked through shared programs and funding to Stillwater but develop its own (non-orange and Pistol Pete) idendity in downtown Tulsa.
Let OSU Stillwater have "Football". OSU Tulsa have "Soccer". [8D]
I would also like to see the TCC Metro campus be tied more closely to OSU Tulsa. On the brochures, class schedules, etc. at the TCC metro campus, have both the OSU Tulsa logo and TCC Metro logos right next to each other. Even on the TCC Metro Campus have OSU Tulsa and TCC Metro, flags flying. Create an image and identity of them being tied together. Enlarges both in peoples minds. TCC Metro students could even live at the OSU Tulsa housing... if they ever build any. Some TCC Metro students are living at the new TU Housing and will, and are, probably go on to TU to finish their degrees. A closer connection with TCC Metro and OSU Tulsa is a logical pairing. Would also be nice to share sports facilities. Also if there are specific programs that are at OSU Tulsa, having the first year classes of that program at TCC Metro might be useful as well. Versus building those facilities at the Southeast campus for instance.
NSU BA and TCC South campus could do similar pairings where applicable. With the PAC at the Southeast Campus, perhaps it would be nice if NSU BA had some Theater Arts programs or Music programs.
Each graduate university isnt competing for state funds and duplicating programs, but focusing on unique programs thus enlarging what can be offered in the Tulsa area. Rather than NSU BA and OSU both having small Engineering programs for instance,,, for the same amount of money one could have a larger Engineering program, the other a larger program focusing on something else. Same with the TCC campuses.
Say you had a great graphic arts/design program at OSU Tulsa, make sure that TCC metro focuses on arts facilities as well. Perhaps NSU BA focuses on something else and doesnt do a lot of art or design, TCC wouldnt then want to spend a lot of money on facilities to do that at the Sotheast Campus. Plus, if a student moves to one part of town or another, perhaps in the future lives on either the OSU or NSU Campuses, it would be far easier to have such classes and programs focused at the nearest TCC campus. Each TCC campus can have general classes, but also have specific facilities that match the specific programs of the college nearest them. Each TCC Campus could have a slightly different focus and identity matching that of the nearby University. Business, Science Technology, Arts, medical, etc.
Just a thought.
There is one reason and one reason alone why the large donors have chosen to earmark their donations for endowed professorships --
The State of Oklahoma provides a dollar for dollar match for donations earmarked for endowed professorships. So any such donation is worth twice as much as the amount of the donation. No other donation to a university gets such treatment.
QuoteOriginally posted by naenae42day
Help me to understand something. I don't follow university politics very closely, but I am curious. I read that the OSU AD donated $1 million to the school. While donations are AWESOME!! I have to wonder...WHY on earth is anyone at this school making enough money to make that kind of donation. This is still a state school right? Does anyone really deserve a million dollar salary? While I have no idea the AD's annual salary...it must be substantial to be able to give away $1 million.
Mike Holder, the former OSU golf coach and now the OSU AD has done very well investing over the years. it was his relationship with boone Pickens that started that whole ball rolling. I would suspect, but don't know, that most if not all of the money was made from investing with Boone. Not a return of his "salary". I don't have the information at my fingertips but his salary is public information.
quote:
Originally posted by bokworker
QuoteOriginally posted by naenae42day
Help me to understand something. I don't follow university politics very closely, but I am curious. I read that the OSU AD donated $1 million to the school. While donations are AWESOME!! I have to wonder...WHY on earth is anyone at this school making enough money to make that kind of donation. This is still a state school right? Does anyone really deserve a million dollar salary? While I have no idea the AD's annual salary...it must be substantial to be able to give away $1 million.
Mike Holder, the former OSU golf coach and now the OSU AD has done very well investing over the years. it was his relationship with boone Pickens that started that whole ball rolling. I would suspect, but don't know, that most if not all of the money was made from investing with Boone. Not a return of his "salary". I don't have the information at my fingertips but his salary is public information.
You are right in that Holder has invested with Boone for a LONG time as they are buddies going back to the 80s.
Holder works for OSU for $1 per year. That's right. $1
He doesn't need a salary. He loves OSU and truly is working for it's best interest and is trying to make it the best Athletic Department in the nation.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
quote:
Originally posted by SXSW
There is no reason OSU-Stillwater and OSU-Tulsa can't BOTH be equally respected universities. Sure the Stillwater campus has the facilities, athletics, and history but the Tulsa campus is on its way it just needs more funding. Many of the OSU alums donate to Stillwater which is why it is important for Tulsa, Tulsa County, and local donors like the Helmerichs (who donated money to build the ARTC) and Kaiser to step up.
I think the general thinking that OSU-Stillwater and Tulsa are "one" campus is fine but at the same time I'd like to see the Tulsa campus develop its own identity. A good example is in Wisconsin where UW-Madision and UW-Milwaukee are both respected universities: one more all-encompassing and agricultural in a college town (like Stillwater) and one in an urban setting with appropriate programs like business, engineering, technology, etc. (like Tulsa). Both thrive off each other and are linked through the UW name and system but have separate identities i.e. UW-Madison Badgers and UW-Milwaukee Panthers. I'd like to eventually see the same with OSU-Tulsa; stay linked through shared programs and funding to Stillwater but develop its own (non-orange and Pistol Pete) idendity in downtown Tulsa.
Let OSU Stillwater have "Football". OSU Tulsa have "Soccer". [8D]
I would also like to see the TCC Metro campus be tied more closely to OSU Tulsa. On the brochures, class schedules, etc. at the TCC metro campus, have both the OSU Tulsa logo and TCC Metro logos right next to each other. Even on the TCC Metro Campus have OSU Tulsa and TCC Metro, flags flying. Create an image and identity of them being tied together. Enlarges both in peoples minds. TCC Metro students could even live at the OSU Tulsa housing... if they ever build any. Some TCC Metro students are living at the new TU Housing and will, and are, probably go on to TU to finish their degrees. A closer connection with TCC Metro and OSU Tulsa is a logical pairing. Would also be nice to share sports facilities. Also if there are specific programs that are at OSU Tulsa, having the first year classes of that program at TCC Metro might be useful as well. Versus building those facilities at the Southeast campus for instance.
NSU BA and TCC South campus could do similar pairings where applicable. With the PAC at the Southeast Campus, perhaps it would be nice if NSU BA had some Theater Arts programs or Music programs.
Each graduate university isnt competing for state funds and duplicating programs, but focusing on unique programs thus enlarging what can be offered in the Tulsa area. Rather than NSU BA and OSU both having small Engineering programs for instance,,, for the same amount of money one could have a larger Engineering program, the other a larger program focusing on something else. Same with the TCC campuses.
Say you had a great graphic arts/design program at OSU Tulsa, make sure that TCC metro focuses on arts facilities as well. Perhaps NSU BA focuses on something else and doesnt do a lot of art or design, TCC wouldnt then want to spend a lot of money on facilities to do that at the Sotheast Campus. Plus, if a student moves to one part of town or another, perhaps in the future lives on either the OSU or NSU Campuses, it would be far easier to have such classes and programs focused at the nearest TCC campus. Each TCC campus can have general classes, but also have specific facilities that match the specific programs of the college nearest them. Each TCC Campus could have a slightly different focus and identity matching that of the nearby University. Business, Science Technology, Arts, medical, etc.
Just a thought.
I like the idea of TCC Metro and OSU-Tulsa working together. Though I would like to see student housing available at both campuses. Underclassmen living in south downtown by TCC and upperclassmen/grad students living west of OSU or in Brady. Have a bus that connects the two until we get streetcars downtown.
What role does OU-Tulsa play with its medical programs? I know they also have an architecture-urban design graduate program. I've always thought it would be cool to see them move into an historic Art Deco building downtown and have a Tulsa architecture museum on the ground floor and then their classrooms & studios on the second/third floors. They could even pair up with the undergraduate arch. programs at OU and OSU to offer year, semester, or summer studios in downtown Tulsa focusing on historic preservation and urban design. I know I would've done something like that in downtown Tulsa when I was a student at OU...