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Non-Tulsa Discussions => Chat and Advice => Topic started by: Nick Danger on June 25, 2008, 02:05:44 PM

Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: Nick Danger on June 25, 2008, 02:05:44 PM
For some reason, I stopped in at an open house this weekend. I don't know why, since I'm not really looking for a new house.

The house was nice, but the HOA dues were $600 a year!! This seems a little excessive to me, and am wondering if I am totally out of touch, or is this the usual these days? I know a lot of the neighborhoods, especially in the south part of town, have entrances and greenbelt areas to maintain, but $50 per month per house is a lot of money.

I would appreciate any input on the HOA concept. I can appreciate that neighborhood "standards" are maintained, but I also think there might be serious problems.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: TURobY on June 25, 2008, 02:07:58 PM
Wow! Renaissance is $10... a year.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: Steve on June 25, 2008, 02:51:59 PM
Just thinking out loud here, but I guess it all depends on the neighborhood, its age, and whether a mandatory association membership is part of the property deed/requirements.

$600/year seems extremely excessive to me for a single-family, detached residential lot, unless the neighborhood has some really "high dollar" common facilities to maintain such as pool/private park/rec. areas.  If you visited a new expensive development with elaborate ammenities, then I can understand the charge.  The more elaborate the common facilities, and the fewer lots in the neighborhood group, would dictate higher fees.

In my neighborhood, we actually have 2 neighborhood associations, one for my subdivision proper (Lortondale) and one for the square mile from 21st-31st/Yale-Sheridan that also encompasses my subdivision, the Hoover Neighborhood Assn.  Both groups are strictly voluntary and payment of dues is not mandatory.  The neighborhood pool in my subdivision is run by a non-profit and supported (barely) through private membership sales and uncompensated volunteer labor and donations.

The Lortondale Neighborhood Assn. was started (revived) in 2004, primarily out of concerns for preservation of the wonderful mid-twentieth century architecture (1954) and history of our neighborhood.  The Hoover Neighborhood Assn. was started about 1.5 years ago, primarily due to safety and code enforcement concerns.  Both are worthwhile groups, but both are strictly voluntary regarding participation and funding.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: rwarn17588 on June 25, 2008, 02:53:26 PM
HOA? What's that?

[;)]
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: safetyguy on June 25, 2008, 02:58:40 PM
Stonehorse in Jenks is mandatory $300 a year and they like every other HOA don't do squat. They actually hired an outside company to be the "bad guy" within the past year. The outside company can't act until the HOA tells them too. Case in point, we have decorative entrance lights that are POS and kids have been destroying them for the past 2 years. When I brought up to the company that they needed to be replaced AGAIN, they said that they had to go back to the HOA for approval to move forward.

The rest of the money is for the lawn maintenance and the usual stuff. We do have a park that occasionally needs work done to.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: sgrizzle on June 25, 2008, 03:05:27 PM
As I understand it, HOA's are mandatory and Neighborhood Associations are optional. My neighborhood is forming an optional association just to have neighborhood garage sales, block parties, neighborhood watch and mowing.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: Nick Danger on June 25, 2008, 05:51:55 PM
Actually, the neighborhood I'm referring to is a gated neighborhood, not a lot of houses, but the value of the homes is probably $160-$220K. So I guess the street maintenance is an expense they have to factor in, as well as the pond in the addition. I guess the liability insurance is probably high also.

I was just shocked at how much it was, and it would definitely have an effect on the decision I would make whether or not to purchase in a neighborhood or not.

I can understand it costs a certain amount to maintain the amenities in a neighborhood, but I do have my limits. The neighborhood I live in now has a voluntary association to maintain the entrances and mow the common areas, but it's only $50 per year, and I gladly choose to participate to keep up the property values.

With the other necessary costs of living escalating like they have been lately (gas, food, etc) and the rising rate of foreclosures, I wonder how many of these HOAs will begin to suffer from non-payment of dues. I guess depending on how the covenants are written, they can put a lien on the property, but they still have to have a certain level of funding.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: inteller on June 25, 2008, 08:11:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Danger

Actually, the neighborhood I'm referring to is a gated neighborhood, not a lot of houses, but the value of the homes is probably $160-$220K. So I guess the street maintenance is an expense they have to factor in, as well as the pond in the addition. I guess the liability insurance is probably high also.

I was just shocked at how much it was, and it would definitely have an effect on the decision I would make whether or not to purchase in a neighborhood or not.

I can understand it costs a certain amount to maintain the amenities in a neighborhood, but I do have my limits. The neighborhood I live in now has a voluntary association to maintain the entrances and mow the common areas, but it's only $50 per year, and I gladly choose to participate to keep up the property values.

With the other necessary costs of living escalating like they have been lately (gas, food, etc) and the rising rate of foreclosures, I wonder how many of these HOAs will begin to suffer from non-payment of dues. I guess depending on how the covenants are written, they can put a lien on the property, but they still have to have a certain level of funding.



My colleague pays $60 a MONTH and his neighborhood doesnt even have a pool.  At least we have a pool and the board is very responsible with funds.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: Steve on June 25, 2008, 08:46:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Danger

Actually, the neighborhood I'm referring to is a gated neighborhood, not a lot of houses, but the value of the homes is probably $160-$220K. So I guess the street maintenance is an expense they have to factor in, as well as the pond in the addition. I guess the liability insurance is probably high also.



It is my understanding that in "gated communities" the street maintenances costs fall directly on the property owners, as they should.  So the high HOA dues in this case are not a surprise.  If you want to live in one of these isolated enclaves, then you have to pay the price.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: inteller on June 25, 2008, 09:47:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Steve

quote:
Originally posted by Nick Danger

Actually, the neighborhood I'm referring to is a gated neighborhood, not a lot of houses, but the value of the homes is probably $160-$220K. So I guess the street maintenance is an expense they have to factor in, as well as the pond in the addition. I guess the liability insurance is probably high also.



It is my understanding that in "gated communities" the street maintenances costs fall directly on the property owners, as they should.  So the high HOA dues in this case are not a surprise.  If you want to live in one of these isolated enclaves, then you have to pay the price.



and it is worth it.  You don't have clowns buzzing through your neighborhood at 2am in the morning tearing up ****.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: TURobY on June 25, 2008, 10:03:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by inteller

and it is worth it.  You don't have clowns buzzing through your neighborhood at 2am in the morning tearing up ****.



No gates here, and no clowns buzzing past my street at 2am in the morning... [;)]
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: rwarn17588 on June 25, 2008, 11:03:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TURobY

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

and it is worth it.  You don't have clowns buzzing through your neighborhood at 2am in the morning tearing up ****.



No gates here, and no clowns buzzing past my street at 2am in the morning... [;)]



Same here. Anyone fooling around like that in Red Fork at 2 a.m. has a death wish.

And I don't have to pay $60 a month. [;)]
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: sauerkraut on June 26, 2008, 09:33:05 AM
Yeah, I'll never buy a home that has a HOA. I don't like 'em.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: Conan71 on June 26, 2008, 09:46:45 AM
quote:
Originally posted by inteller

quote:
Originally posted by Steve

quote:
Originally posted by Nick Danger

Actually, the neighborhood I'm referring to is a gated neighborhood, not a lot of houses, but the value of the homes is probably $160-$220K. So I guess the street maintenance is an expense they have to factor in, as well as the pond in the addition. I guess the liability insurance is probably high also.



It is my understanding that in "gated communities" the street maintenances costs fall directly on the property owners, as they should.  So the high HOA dues in this case are not a surprise.  If you want to live in one of these isolated enclaves, then you have to pay the price.



and it is worth it.  You don't have clowns buzzing through your neighborhood at 2am in the morning tearing up ****.



This guy called me paranoid and "internet tough guy" for having two steel case doors on two entries and a heavy hardwood on the other (house came that way from the P.O.) and I keep a gun within reach which I'd have no problem using on an intruder.

He lives in a gated community.  That's just farking hillarious! [}:)]
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: inteller on June 26, 2008, 10:02:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

quote:
Originally posted by Steve

quote:
Originally posted by Nick Danger

Actually, the neighborhood I'm referring to is a gated neighborhood, not a lot of houses, but the value of the homes is probably $160-$220K. So I guess the street maintenance is an expense they have to factor in, as well as the pond in the addition. I guess the liability insurance is probably high also.



It is my understanding that in "gated communities" the street maintenances costs fall directly on the property owners, as they should.  So the high HOA dues in this case are not a surprise.  If you want to live in one of these isolated enclaves, then you have to pay the price.



and it is worth it.  You don't have clowns buzzing through your neighborhood at 2am in the morning tearing up ****.



This guy called me paranoid and "internet tough guy" for having two steel case doors on two entries and a heavy hardwood on the other (house came that way from the P.O.) and I keep a gun within reach which I'd have no problem using on an intruder.

He lives in a gated community.  That's just farking hillarious! [}:)]



did I say I lived in a gated community?  No, I said that gates are worth it.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: RecycleMichael on June 27, 2008, 12:57:51 AM
I live in east Tulsa and our homeowners dues are twelve bucks a year. I am one of the board members. We meet every other month.

Our meetings are always a potluck meal and we spend the entire night plotting to attack the neighbors who don't show up for the meetings. The gossip alone is worth the effort to attend.

I consider my dues to be a cover charge for the comedy show.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: TUalum0982 on June 27, 2008, 07:51:48 AM
We live in South Woods in Jenks.  It is basically 3 neighborhoods in one.  We have a community pool, several playgrounds with splashpads, a catch and release fishing pond and the typical maintanence that goes with the neighborhood.  Our dues are 40 dollars a month or 480 dollars a year.  At first I thought it was expensive (this is our first home) but then I received the expense report and it broke down what we paid for what services and the like.  I have seen other HOA dues alot higher then ours.  I would say that is somewhat excessive but every neighborhood is different.  Some have more options then others and vise versa.

IMO our HOA does a very good job as well with managing the money.  

I have family in San Diego and their small 1500 sq ft condo is 120 dollars a month in dues.  I understand it is san diego and the cost of living is higher but thats alot of money in comparison to many of the associations in Tulsa.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: Conan71 on June 27, 2008, 08:25:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982

We live in South Woods in Jenks.  It is basically 3 neighborhoods in one.  We have a community pool, several playgrounds with splashpads, a catch and release fishing pond and the typical maintanence that goes with the neighborhood.  Our dues are 40 dollars a month or 480 dollars a year.  At first I thought it was expensive (this is our first home) but then I received the expense report and it broke down what we paid for what services and the like.  I have seen other HOA dues alot higher then ours.  I would say that is somewhat excessive but every neighborhood is different.  Some have more options then others and vise versa.

IMO our HOA does a very good job as well with managing the money.  

I have family in San Diego and their small 1500 sq ft condo is 120 dollars a month in dues.  I understand it is san diego and the cost of living is higher but thats alot of money in comparison to many of the associations in Tulsa.




$40 isn't that bad at all, especially if pool usage and lawn/landscape on entries is inlcluded.  I used to live in Sungate.  They did not have a neighborhood association fee at the time (mid '90's), but you paid dues for the "pool club" during the summer if you used it.

Condo association dues are typically higher due to more extensive to lawn and landscape maintenance, common area upkeep, insurance, etc.  I don't think your relatives are paying a whole lot more than a condo assessment would be here.  
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: Conan71 on June 27, 2008, 08:33:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by inteller


did I say I lived in a gated community?  No, I said that gates are worth it.



Actually you did on the Google street view thread:

"oh boy, now all of the orange cones downtown will be immortalized forever. yee haw.

google should have waited.

on the upside I now see that living in a gated community has its benefits. my neighborhood leaves the gate open during the day but I guess if they see a gate they don't go through."

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10355
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: TUalum0982 on June 27, 2008, 09:04:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

quote:
Originally posted by inteller


did I say I lived in a gated community?  No, I said that gates are worth it.



Actually you did on the Google street view thread:

"oh boy, now all of the orange cones downtown will be immortalized forever. yee haw.

google should have waited.

on the upside I now see that living in a gated community has its benefits. my neighborhood leaves the gate open during the day but I guess if they see a gate they don't go through."

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10355



OWNED.  I bet this lie is just the tip of the iceberg.  Inteller probably doesnt even live in that area, he just wanted to play the role of negative nancy when the proposed Target was going in.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: Kashmir on June 27, 2008, 12:26:32 PM
Let's refresh...Way back in time when SuperTarget @101st was just a lil' old dream...

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir

I guess I am a bad person because I am looking forward to cutting through that neighborhood from my (smaller, less expensive)neighborhood to get to Super Target.




if it goes through we are going to put a gate up and cut your donkey off so you can forget about that idea.



Hmmm...So which one is it?  Gates or no gates?
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: Townsend on June 27, 2008, 03:54:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982


OWNED.  I bet this lie is just the tip of the iceberg.  Inteller probably doesnt even live in that area, he just wanted to play the role of negative nancy when the proposed Target was going in.



Think it's a chubby 14 year old girl with power issues?
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: Steve on July 01, 2008, 02:11:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I live in east Tulsa and our homeowners dues are twelve bucks a year. I am one of the board members. We meet every other month.

Our meetings are always a potluck meal and we spend the entire night plotting to attack the neighbors who don't show up for the meetings. The gossip alone is worth the effort to attend.

I consider my dues to be a cover charge for the comedy show.



Funny!  I have much the same feelings about my neighborhood assn.  Our voluntary dues are $50 a year, and entitle your household to vote in assn. matters, but any resident can attend meetings and voice their opinion.

You are right about the gossip thing, but in my case I learned "the hard way" not to ever, ever say anything to a homeowner's association official that you don't want rebroadcast to the entire neighborhood!  I voiced some personal opinions "off the record" on several occasions to our association president (both in person and via email), and somehow my opionions were mysteriously rebroadcast to the entire neighborhood.  Some people have no sense of confidentiality.  I quit our assn. because of this and the petty issues that can evolve in these groups.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: inteller on July 06, 2008, 09:43:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir

Let's refresh...Way back in time when SuperTarget @101st was just a lil' old dream...

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir

I guess I am a bad person because I am looking forward to cutting through that neighborhood from my (smaller, less expensive)neighborhood to get to Super Target.




if it goes through we are going to put a gate up and cut your donkey off so you can forget about that idea.



Hmmm...So which one is it?  Gates or no gates?



it is called disinformation.  it keeps you guessing.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: rwarn17588 on July 06, 2008, 10:20:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by inteller

quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir

Let's refresh...Way back in time when SuperTarget @101st was just a lil' old dream...

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir

I guess I am a bad person because I am looking forward to cutting through that neighborhood from my (smaller, less expensive)neighborhood to get to Super Target.




if it goes through we are going to put a gate up and cut your donkey off so you can forget about that idea.



Hmmm...So which one is it?  Gates or no gates?



it is called disinformation.  it keeps you guessing.



I think most would call it lying.
Title: Homeowner Associations
Post by: inteller on July 06, 2008, 11:59:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir

Let's refresh...Way back in time when SuperTarget @101st was just a lil' old dream...

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir

I guess I am a bad person because I am looking forward to cutting through that neighborhood from my (smaller, less expensive)neighborhood to get to Super Target.




if it goes through we are going to put a gate up and cut your donkey off so you can forget about that idea.



Hmmm...So which one is it?  Gates or no gates?



it is called disinformation.  it keeps you guessing.



I think most would call it lying.



that would be a valid statment as well, although disinformation is a better description of the intent.