A Revised Plan for Tulsa? (//%22http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A23539%22)
I think this is an exciting time for Tulsa. I look forward to reading the recommendations from these citizen groups.
I know there will be plenty of opportunities for all of us to give input. The website has captured the comments from many groups already. I spent hours one night just reading all the different perspectives.
I don't understand the cynical title to this thread. Why the compulsive negativity? Tulsa has hired an amazing and inspiring team of professionals to help us update the Comp Plan. THEY have repeatedly stated that the most important thing will be getting AS MUCH CITIZEN INPUT AS POSSIBLE. They will be doing their best to hear our thoughts and ideas and dreams and concerns. The best thing that could possibly happen would be for the entire city to turn out and participate. There will be ample opportunity...are you going to show up and contribute?
Please don't start with an attitude of victimization and negativity. Please don't spit on something before you even take part in the process. Your input is desired. Show up, speak up, play a role. Encourage your friends and family to participate. Have a voice. Get excited! Dream big! The only thing that will hold us back is ourselves (led by people who believe that nothing good can ever happen).
I think Tulsans are better than that. And that Tulsa has the potential to be great. This is an amazing chance to make a difference...the first time since the 70's to update the comprehensive plan. Just think of the possibilities!
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
I think this is an exciting time for Tulsa. I look forward to reading the recommendations from these citizen groups.
I know there will be plenty of opportunities for all of us to give input. The website has captured the comments from many groups already. I spent hours one night just reading all the different perspectives.
Will the input of the average Tulsan really be given the same weight as these handpicked insiders, chosen not through a public process or even as much as Council approval, but appointed under a shroud of secrecy by the sole discretion and royal authority of her majesty Queen Kathy in this oh so public process?
Stating one thing and doing another should inspire skepticism. I have been and will continue to be a part of this process, that's why I have a vested interest in keeping this process open, honest, and accountable so that progress is delivered as promised through a real, clear, public process driven by average citizens, not Voodoo Visioning or Stepping Up. I will continue to be vocal with my concerns when I feel this plan is in jeopardy of being perverted and our potential pandered to squandering special interests.
The Queen's list of her handpicked Advisors and Partners(that sure has a G.O.B. ring to it) is supposed to be released today. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't happen. Da Mare never met a deadline she couldn't extend.
It is so easy to prove you wrong doubleA.
I agree with ponder...your negativity is unwarranted and useless. You were never giving this process a chance, instead making up your mind before you had any facts.
http://www.planitulsa.org/node/6
PLANiTULSA Advisors and Partners as of 6/13
PLANiTULSA Advisors
Anna America
Chip Ard
Barbara Argabright
Stephanie Arnold de Verges
Marquay Baul
Jim Beach
G.T. Bynum
Michelle Cantrell
Tom Cooper
Katy Davis
Phil Dessauer
Kathy Dodd
Phil Eller
Shane Fernandez
Jerry Goodwin
Jack Henderson
Maxine Horner
Brian Hunt
Paul Kane
Sarah Kobos
Bill Major
Jeannie McDaniel
Jon McGrath
Darick Morton
Shelby Navarro
Shawn Schaefer
Ed Schermerhorn
John Selph
Jabar Shumate
Bob Sober
Gary Trennepohl
OC Walker
Rose Washington-Rentie
Paul Wilson
Larry Wofford
PLANiTULSA Partners
Dan Arthrell
Maria Barnes
Howard Barnett, Jr.
Michael Bates
Stacey Bayles
Herb Beattie
David Bernstein
Michael Birkes
David Breed
Ken Busby
Ron Bussert
Andy Chapa
Felicia Collins Correia
Jan Creveling
Patience Crowder
Randy Dittmann
Dan Ellinor
Lanny Endicott
Jan Figart
Linda Fitzgerald
Reuben Gant
Darrell Gilbert
Rudy Gordon
Robert Gregory
Sean Griffin
Barney James
Jamie Jamieson
Sharlene Johnson
Stan Johnson
Christine Kallenberger
Karen Keith
Pat Kendall
Ken Klein
Jim Lamb
Carol Lambert
Sandra Langenkamp
Jane Malone
Tom Maxwell
Marla Mayberry
Matt Meyer
Jim Mishler
Ernesto Mondragon
Mike Neal
Jack Neely
Janice Nicklas
Jim Norton
Brian O'Mahony
Esther Ogans
William Packard
Maria Carlota Palacios
Carlton Pearson
Julius Pegues
Kay Price
Michael Reed
John Smaligo
Scott Smith
Janet Stearns
Rand Suffolk
Paul Thomas
Wendy Thomas
Pat Treadway
Donald Tyler
Al Unser
Tom Wallace
Corey Williams
100 plus people from all over town, all over the economic spectrum, and most importantly, people who are both for and against most issues. They are just the start...there will be plenty of opportunity for the rest of us to weigh in as well.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
It is so easy to prove you wrong doubleA.
I agree with ponder...your negativity is unwarranted and useless. You were never giving this process a chance, instead making up your mind before you had any facts.
100 plus people from all over town, all over the economic spectrum, and most importantly, people who are both for and against most issues. They are just the start...there will be plenty of opportunity for the rest of us to weigh in as well.
What does that list prove? What facts that I stated about this selection process does this dispute? Will the input of the average citizen be given the same weight as the input of these "Advisors and Partners"? Seriously, how does that prove me wrong other than I speculated that Da Mare might miss the deadline, because the fact of the matter is, she never met a deadline she couldn't miss or extend. The downtown ballpark (that is so near and dear to your heart) and the jail contract with the County are just two recent examples. Ante up or shut up.
Of course, when you wrote that the Mayor would not release the list, they had already posted it on their website. Not that you would ever admit you were wrong about anything...you and GW Bush are so much alike.
There are many good people on the list of advisors and partners. Many of them are regular posters or readers of this forum. The process has been very well explained to the public and there have been plenty of opportunities for input, including both a meeting with TulsaNow board members and TulsaNow regular members. There are large scale public meetings planned for September and all comments have been captured and shared with everybody.
Yet, you start a thread on this forum using words like "loathing", and comment using words like "perverted". You go and attack the list of people saying they are "hand-picked" and "potential pandered to squandering special interests" without even knowing who they are.
It is clear that you don't want to be part of a positive thing for Tulsa. You clearly don't do any research before you throw mud and when challenged, change the topic to attacking the Mayor about other topics to justify your mistakes.
My advice would be to show a little patience and trust every once in a while. Give something like this a chance to work before you write it all off. If you tried to be positive every once in a while, your comments would be more welcome here and in the formal planning process.
Why is our local newspaper not covering the comp plan update? They did nothing after the presentation at Central Park, and still nothing in today's paper.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
It is so easy to prove you wrong doubleA.
I agree with ponder...your negativity is unwarranted and useless. You were never giving this process a chance, instead making up your mind before you had any facts.
http://www.planitulsa.org/node/6
100 plus people from all over town, all over the economic spectrum, and most importantly, people who are both for and against most issues. They are just the start...there will be plenty of opportunity for the rest of us to weigh in as well.
That's a list of great minds! Good representation of professional people in Tulsa. I know and respect most of them.
Liberals, Conservatives, Closet Libertarians, Conservatives that have to pretend to be Liberals in public, all with diverse opinions on planning and development. Should be able to produce a good product.
I was never a big supporter of Mayor Taylor, but in the last year I have seen her make some outstanding decisions and lead in a way that makes me proud to call her my mayor.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
appointed under a shroud of secrecy by the sole discretion and royal authority of her majesty Queen Kathy in this oh so public process?
The Queen's list of her handpicked Advisors and Partners(that sure has a G.O.B. ring to it) is supposed to be released today. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't happen. Da Mare never met a deadline she couldn't extend.
See DoubleAA... you said the list was shrouded in secrecy and that it probably wouldn't be released when it already was. That means you were wrong.
Keep an eye on the system, god knows it gets abused. But no need to call it corrupt before it has even started. Let alone when the meat of your statement is already wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by pmcalk
Why is our local newspaper not covering the comp plan update? They did nothing after the presentation at Central Park, and still nothing in today's paper.
The Tulsa World gets its marching orders from its biggest advertiser. Until they give the word, the World stays muzzled.
(http://www.tulsahba.com/images/580/logo.gif)
When did Al Unser move to Tulsa? [:o)]
The list does read of some wealth and privelege, seems to be though that a lot of those folks are the only ones who care to serve on volunteer committees.
I like it .... sounds spacey like a constellation separate from our solar system.
Planet Tulsa.....right on.
The major emphasis needs to be on air and water quality. Every other issue in 30 years will be suffocated by the absence of quality environmental governance over our abundant natural resources.
This urban bs is for private developers, dreamers, and schemers.
I thought it should be Planetulsa, too.
The planners just aren't good spellers.
No. I like visual puns. In case you haven't noticed.[}:)]
Hands off, Lady (//%22http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A23668%22)
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah
quote:
Originally posted by pmcalk
Why is our local newspaper not covering the comp plan update? They did nothing after the presentation at Central Park, and still nothing in today's paper.
The Tulsa World gets its marching orders from its biggest advertiser. Until they give the word, the World stays muzzled.
(http://www.tulsahba.com/images/580/logo.gif)
That's a bunch of crap! How much do you think the HBA spends a year on advertising in the Tulsa World?
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah
quote:
Originally posted by pmcalk
Why is our local newspaper not covering the comp plan update? They did nothing after the presentation at Central Park, and still nothing in today's paper.
The Tulsa World gets its marching orders from its biggest advertiser. Until they give the word, the World stays muzzled.
(http://www.tulsahba.com/images/580/logo.gif)
That's a bunch of crap! How much do you think the HBA spends a year on advertising in the Tulsa World?
i dunno, did you not get the HUGE parade of homes booklet last Sat? They don't put that in there for free!
and btw, the advisor list reads by in large like a whos who of cronyism. I read Chip Ard and I almost stopped there, but thought I would continue for amusement purposes.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
and btw, the advisor list reads by in large like a whos who of cronyism. I read Chip Ard and I almost stopped there, but thought I would continue for amusement purposes.
So the chair of the Planning Commission shouldn't be on the list of advisors for the Comprehensive Plan update??? Even for you, that's illogical.
quote:
Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
and btw, the advisor list reads by in large like a whos who of cronyism. I read Chip Ard and I almost stopped there, but thought I would continue for amusement purposes.
So the chair of the Planning Commission shouldn't be on the list of advisors for the Comprehensive Plan update??? Even for you, that's illogical.
Many people have a problem with him serving on the TMAPC in the first place. Is it any wonder that they wouldn't be too thrilled about him serving on the Comp Plan update, too?
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
and btw, the advisor list reads by in large like a whos who of cronyism. I read Chip Ard and I almost stopped there, but thought I would continue for amusement purposes.
So the chair of the Planning Commission shouldn't be on the list of advisors for the Comprehensive Plan update??? Even for you, that's illogical.
Many people have a problem with him serving on the TMAPC in the first place. Is it any wonder that they wouldn't be too thrilled about him serving on the Comp Plan update, too?
Thrilled or not, he's the chair.
Don't get so worked up about who's on the advisors list and who's on the partners list. Just show up at the community events, stay informed, and speak up about what you want Tusla to be. Invite all your friends and family and co-workers to participate in PLANiTulsa as well. The real political force of the comp plan will be the hundreds (hopefully thousands) of average citizens who show up and participate.
By the way, TulsaNow will be hosting a public event on Tues, July 15 to discuss the Comp Plan (what it is, how to get involved, why everyone should participate...) John Fregonese will speak, along with other members of the consulting team.
Please come, and learn how to get involved. I think that any citizen with a passion for Tulsa and a vision for the future will have an opportunity to play an important role in this project as we move forward.
It will be at the OSU-Tulsa Auditorium, from 6-8 PM on Tues, July 15. Mark your calendars. More info soon!
Good points ponder.
DoubleA doesn't care about the process. He just wants to complain because he wasn't picked on the list. He always starts with hating on the Mayor then starts attacking individuals. He must have a miserable life.
100 or so people get to volunteer extra time to help with the program and the remaining 390,000 of us will still have plenty of opportunity to be heard.
From the very beginning, this process has been open and inclusive. Included on this list are many regular posters on this forum who I am sure will continue to discuss the process and results. This is a great opportunity for regular citizens to help craft a future for our community.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
Good points ponder.
DoubleA doesn't care about the process. He just wants to complain because he wasn't picked on the list. He always starts with hating on the Mayor then starts attacking individuals. He must have a miserable life.
100 or so people get to volunteer extra time to help with the program and the remaining 390,000 of us will still have plenty of opportunity to be heard.
From the very beginning, this process has been open and inclusive. Included on this list are many regular posters on this forum who I am sure will continue to discuss the process and results. This is a great opportunity for regular citizens to help craft a future for our community.
Don't put your words in my mouth, it makes it unclean and leaves a horribly bitter sulfurous aftertaste. Why are others who are actually serving on this making public comments of uncertainty about this process and taking a wait and see approach if this is just about me not serving? What's your next spin on this? Maybe you'll pull one out of the Hillbillary Clintonista playbook and start screaming it's a vast naysayer conspiracy?
quote:
Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
and btw, the advisor list reads by in large like a whos who of cronyism. I read Chip Ard and I almost stopped there, but thought I would continue for amusement purposes.
So the chair of the Planning Commission shouldn't be on the list of advisors for the Comprehensive Plan update??? Even for you, that's illogical.
Many people have a problem with him serving on the TMAPC in the first place. Is it any wonder that they wouldn't be too thrilled about him serving on the Comp Plan update, too?
Thrilled or not, he's the chair.
Considering the fact that the city supposedly wants input from everyone, don't you think it is counterproductive to just dismiss their concerns as illogical? That's a surefire way to instill the faith and confidence of the public that their input won't be taken for granted in this process.[sarcasm off]
It is hard to take your negativity seriously. You have been opposed to everything that has been happening for the last two years in this city. This thread is proof that you use this forum as a outlet for your misery.
Despite your terrible outlook, your comments will still be welcome on the comprehensive plan. My advice to you is to focus on what kind of city you want to live in, not obsessing on a few individuals whom you dislike.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
and btw, the advisor list reads by in large like a whos who of cronyism. I read Chip Ard and I almost stopped there, but thought I would continue for amusement purposes.
So the chair of the Planning Commission shouldn't be on the list of advisors for the Comprehensive Plan update??? Even for you, that's illogical.
Many people have a problem with him serving on the TMAPC in the first place. Is it any wonder that they wouldn't be too thrilled about him serving on the Comp Plan update, too?
Thrilled or not, he's the chair.
Considering the fact that the city supposedly wants input from everyone, don't you think it is counterproductive to just dismiss their concerns as illogical? That's a surefire way to instill the faith and confidence of the public that their input won't be taken for granted in this process.[sarcasm off]
inteller ain't "the public" he's an internet crank. If his opinion is representative of the public, then the public needs to raise its game. Planning 101: The chair of the Planning Commission will be involved in the Comprehensive Plan.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
It is hard to take your negativity seriously. You have been opposed to everything that has been happening for the last two years in this city. This thread is proof that you use this forum as a outlet for your misery.
Despite your terrible outlook, your comments will still be welcome on the comprehensive plan. My advice to you is to focus on what kind of city you want to live in, not obsessing on a few individuals whom you dislike.
Spare me that tired old patronizing PollyAna B.S., that stale old song and dance is getting really old. Reassurances from professional liars like you should only serve to increase public skepticism about this process.
Coming from someone who has been through the Tulsa "planning" process wringer and hung out to dry, I can say that I think it's far too soon in the Comprehensive Plan update effort for anyone to feel excluded already. I don't, and I'd bet that I'm one of the biggest skeptics of Tulsa's "planning" system.
I've been involved in two or three of the Comp Plan update public meetings so far. There are several more scheduled. I'm not sure, but I think inteller resides in Tulsa near 101st and Memorial. If so, then inteller is indeed "the public" and deserves to be included in the process as all Tulsans do.
It doesn't matter how much we try to label or dismiss others on this forum, all Tulsans -- whether they be internet cranks, curmudgeons, sweethearts, or shills -- ought to be able to participate in the update of the Comprehensive Plan if they so choose. Most Tulsans will keep out of it. I intend to stay involved.
P.S. It's reasonable that the Planning Commission be represented in the process and at all the meetings.