The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: zstyles on May 22, 2008, 01:03:17 PM

Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: zstyles on May 22, 2008, 01:03:17 PM
Not sure if I am alone here..but it seems like no matter where I go I am bored..unless its around Utica Square, Woodward Park or Brookside...from Broken Arrow to Jenks it is strip mall city..same thing on every block...a Shoe Carnival, Starbucks, Jamba Juice, At&T..etc....I am sure its all about the money..but don't we have any developers in Tulsa that have a vision of what people want? We want NICE places to shop, like utica square..not a strip mall..etc...just my rant..anyone else have 2 cents?
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: TheTed on May 22, 2008, 01:08:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by zstyles

Not sure if I am alone here..but it seems like no matter where I go I am bored..unless its around Utica Square, Woodward Park or Brookside...from Broken Arrow to Jenks it is strip mall city..same thing on every block...a Shoe Carnival, Starbucks, Jamba Juice, At&T..etc....I am sure its all about the money..but don't we have any developers in Tulsa that have a vision of what people want? We want NICE places to shop, like utica square..not a strip mall..etc...just my rant..anyone else have 2 cents?


I've often thought while I drive around that we must be the strip mall capital of the world. We even have Utica Square, which has got to be one of the nicest strip malls around.
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: T Badd on May 22, 2008, 02:10:19 PM
Welcome to Generica! Tulsa's not unique...it's a disease that has spread to all corners of the U.S.

I spent about 5 years on the road throughout the lower-48 and there were seriously times when I could have been ANYWHERE...Holmdale, NJ looks just like Sacramento, CA...parts of Marietta, GA look just like Plano, TX...the problem is rampant.

I mourn the loss of architectural details, durable materials and unique styling.
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: midtownnewbie on May 22, 2008, 02:24:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by T Badd

Welcome to Generica! Tulsa's not unique...it's a disease that has spread to all corners of the U.S.


+1  Tulsa is definately not unique with it's use of strip malls.
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: TheArtist on May 22, 2008, 03:06:52 PM
I like the fact that the areas in and around;  Cherry Street, Brookside and Utica Square have, and continue to, evolve into "real places". I think its the WALKABLE and MIXED USE components "lots of different things, living, shopping, dining, work, entertainment, etc. all jumbled together close to each other" that makes those areas work.





Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: PonderInc on May 22, 2008, 05:44:28 PM
Strip malls are one problem, national chains are another, and auto-driven (no pun intended) development is a third.

I heard that the Mayor was at a convention drumming up business to bring national chains to Tulsa.  I'm trying to think of one I would want.  OK...maybe an IKEA.

One solution to "Generica" is to support local merchants and restaurants.  The product is better, and the investment stays in Tulsa.

Some terrific places are found in strip malls...but I agree, they are not that inspiring to look at....or walk to.  (Indeed, I often overlook places in strip malls, b/c I'm always averting my eyes from the ugliness.  I have to remind myself that the food can be great, even if the atmosphere is less than inspiring.)
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: TUalum0982 on May 22, 2008, 08:29:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

Strip malls are one problem, national chains are another, and auto-driven (no pun intended) development is a third.

I heard that the Mayor was at a convention drumming up business to bring national chains to Tulsa.  I'm trying to think of one I would want.  OK...maybe an IKEA.

One solution to "Generica" is to support local merchants and restaurants.  The product is better, and the investment stays in Tulsa.

Some terrific places are found in strip malls...but I agree, they are not that inspiring to look at....or walk to.  (Indeed, I often overlook places in strip malls, b/c I'm always averting my eyes from the ugliness.  I have to remind myself that the food can be great, even if the atmosphere is less than inspiring.)



I can think of several, Half Price Books, Boston Market, and Frys.  

I work at the airport, and I hear EVERYDAY how beautiful, wonderful, I want to move here, Tulsa is.  I know alot of people who have lived here awhile have legitimate complaints, IE our mayor, roads, OKC VS TULSA, etc etc, but we have a great city here and some of us just don't know how good we have it.
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: Red Arrow on May 22, 2008, 09:02:13 PM
Strip malls are kind of like entry level for the mixed development that so many on this forum promote.  Not really the stores you want. Maybe not the architecture you dreamed about. (Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.)  Not Woodland Hills Mall either.
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: safetyguy on May 22, 2008, 09:14:26 PM
quote:


I heard that the Mayor was at a convention drumming up business to bring national chains to Tulsa.  I'm trying to think of one I would want.  OK...maybe an IKEA.




I vote for a Container Store
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: USRufnex on May 22, 2008, 09:59:57 PM
All in favor of Trader Joes...?  Which is, of course, yet another chain... [:P]

Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: Miss Solemnis on May 22, 2008, 10:08:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

I'm trying to think of one I would want.  OK...maybe an IKEA.



IKEA would be great, as would Sur la Table, Trader Joe's, Costco, West Elm, and Crate & Barrel!
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: TUalum0982 on May 23, 2008, 07:42:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Miss Solemnis

quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

I'm trying to think of one I would want.  OK...maybe an IKEA.



IKEA would be great, as would Sur la Table, Trader Joe's, Costco, West Elm, and Crate & Barrel!



one more to the list. A WORLD MARKET! the best selection of wines and beers I have ever seen. (well scratch that off the list...stupid *** state govt).  If you are ever in dallas, houston, austin, phoenix, or san diego check out a world market.
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: Miss Solemnis on May 23, 2008, 08:19:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982

(well scratch that off the list...stupid *** state govt).



Which is exactly the reason we'll never see a Trader Joe's in this state.  I forgot about World Market!  And speaking of TX...Central Market!  I also wouldn't mind having a Penzey's here.
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: Gaspar on May 23, 2008, 08:46:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Miss Solemnis

quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982

(well scratch that off the list...stupid *** state govt).



Which is exactly the reason we'll never see a Trader Joe's in this state.  I forgot about World Market!  And speaking of TX...Central Market!  I also wouldn't mind having a Penzey's here.



I love World Market.  Like a giant Pier 1  with good prices and food!
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: Hoss on May 23, 2008, 09:53:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

Strip malls are one problem, national chains are another, and auto-driven (no pun intended) development is a third.

I heard that the Mayor was at a convention drumming up business to bring national chains to Tulsa.  I'm trying to think of one I would want.  OK...maybe an IKEA.

One solution to "Generica" is to support local merchants and restaurants.  The product is better, and the investment stays in Tulsa.

Some terrific places are found in strip malls...but I agree, they are not that inspiring to look at....or walk to.  (Indeed, I often overlook places in strip malls, b/c I'm always averting my eyes from the ugliness.  I have to remind myself that the food can be great, even if the atmosphere is less than inspiring.)



I can think of several, Half Price Books, Boston Market, and Frys.  

I work at the airport, and I hear EVERYDAY how beautiful, wonderful, I want to move here, Tulsa is.  I know alot of people who have lived here awhile have legitimate complaints, IE our mayor, roads, OKC VS TULSA, etc etc, but we have a great city here and some of us just don't know how good we have it.



+1
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: Gaspar on May 23, 2008, 10:07:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss

quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

Strip malls are one problem, national chains are another, and auto-driven (no pun intended) development is a third.

I heard that the Mayor was at a convention drumming up business to bring national chains to Tulsa.  I'm trying to think of one I would want.  OK...maybe an IKEA.

One solution to "Generica" is to support local merchants and restaurants.  The product is better, and the investment stays in Tulsa.

Some terrific places are found in strip malls...but I agree, they are not that inspiring to look at....or walk to.  (Indeed, I often overlook places in strip malls, b/c I'm always averting my eyes from the ugliness.  I have to remind myself that the food can be great, even if the atmosphere is less than inspiring.)



I can think of several, Half Price Books, Boston Market, and Frys.  

I work at the airport, and I hear EVERYDAY how beautiful, wonderful, I want to move here, Tulsa is.  I know alot of people who have lived here awhile have legitimate complaints, IE our mayor, roads, OKC VS TULSA, etc etc, but we have a great city here and some of us just don't know how good we have it.



+1



I think we have an awesome city, but there is always room for discussion of improvement.  For example, streets, zoning, cleanliness, development, and all of those things that we need to be very introspective about as we continue to grow within and  around our borders.

That's what we're HERE for, on this forum.

There was a time when wide-open spaces made a strip mall the way to go.  I think we've grown out of that.  Thank God!

Money drives development and developers work within the guidelines set before them.  The city, needs to attract developers, so they design laws that make development attractive.  Used to be strip malls, now it's becoming denser multi-use structures.  The strip mall development now belongs to Jenks, Broken Arrow, and Bixby.  Eventually they will grow out of it too.
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: bigdtottown on May 23, 2008, 10:36:12 AM
I don't think Utica Square meets the definition of Strip Mall.  It reminds me of a shopping center close to our house here in Dallas called Highland Park Village, they are very both very walkable.  I actually like going to Utica when we are in Tulsa and I'm not much of a shopper.  BTW, Central Market and World Market are killer stores.  I think World Market would do well in Tulsa.  Central Market would have to be in the right spot in Tulsa but the one here is absolutely a madhouse pretty much any time we go there.  AWESOME beer selection...my wife says the food selection is really good too...I'll have to trust her on that.
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: izmophonik on May 23, 2008, 10:56:59 AM
You are correct.  Technically Utica Square is classified as an "Open Air Mall" or back when it was built, a "Retail Lifestyle Center".  Open air malls have recently taken off again in popularity but Utica square is among the oldest in the U.S.  I believe the oldest open air mall was built in 1924.
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: bigdtottown on May 23, 2008, 12:12:48 PM
Highland Park Village opened in '31 and Utica opened in '54 but they are very similar in overall feel, although Utica Square dwarfs Highland Park Village in size.  The general experience of both of them is much better than typical strip malls but strip malls are cheaper, by far, to build.  Another extremely successful example of the open air layout is Southlake Town Square in Southlake, TX.  We toured it when I was in a graduate real estate program and it's pretty impressive.  I wish more developers took the long term perspective since it can also be very profitable.
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: dbacks fan on May 23, 2008, 12:46:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by bigdtottown

Highland Park Village opened in '31 and Utica opened in '54 but they are very similar in overall feel, although Utica Square dwarfs Highland Park Village in size.  The general experience of both of them is much better than typical strip malls but strip malls are cheaper, by far, to build.  Another extremely successful example of the open air layout is Southlake Town Square in Southlake, TX.  We toured it when I was in a graduate real estate program and it's pretty impressive.  I wish more developers took the long term perspective since it can also be very profitable.



Although it does not have the Town Square this is near us in Phoenix, and it's also adjacent to a JW Marriott Resort.

http://www.shopdesertridge.com/index.aspx (//%22http://%22)

These types are becoming very popular.
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: bigdtottown on May 23, 2008, 02:08:45 PM
What's interesting about Southlake Town Square is that it literally IS the town square for Southlake and includes all gov't functions.  They managed to give it the look of a traditional town square, along with all the retail, without looking too much like some sort of Disney joke.  Some of the retail stores there have their highest volume locations in the nation.  One strike against Highland Park Village is they are booting Harolds out b/c it's not seen as "high end" enough.  That sucks since it was the first Harolds outside of Oklahoma,  although they are just moving a few miles away.
Title: Tulsa and its "strip mall" feel
Post by: hoodlum on May 23, 2008, 02:45:51 PM
the country club plaza in KC is the oldest mall/shopping center in the country. built in 1922