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Gold
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« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2008, 02:03:00 pm » |
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Originally posted by swake
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Originally posted by Gold
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Originally posted by ttownclown
From what I heard, the new river development in Jenks is still planning a stadium as part of development. I've heard soccer is now one of their main options when the Drillers go downtown.
That's a hell of an idea if true. I was against the Jenks plan for a lot of reasons, but if they can get the funding to do that and the ownership group (big "ifs"), then go for it. All that said, there are so many serious hurdles for that Jenks plan that I won't hold my breath.
Hurdles for the Jenks plan? It’s under construction now. You should take a look, it’s a massive site.
With the stadium? Nope. |
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2008, 08:43:25 pm » |
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quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by Gold
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Originally posted by ttownclown
From what I heard, the new river development in Jenks is still planning a stadium as part of development. I've heard soccer is now one of their main options when the Drillers go downtown.
That's a hell of an idea if true. I was against the Jenks plan for a lot of reasons, but if they can get the funding to do that and the ownership group (big "ifs"), then go for it. All that said, there are so many serious hurdles for that Jenks plan that I won't hold my breath.
Hurdles for the Jenks plan? It’s under construction now. You should take a look, it’s a massive site.
they are like 1-2 months into a year of dirtwork. Plenty of time for designs to change and it become an RV park. |
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JoeMommaBlake
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« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2008, 09:58:11 am » |
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 Frisco, TX built this. Apparently it is the trend to combine youth soccer fields with a larger soccer stadium. It also doubles as a concert venue (Jimmy Buffet, Kenny Chesney, and Edge Fest) are scheduled. The previously mentioned west bank of our river currently has a soccer complex. Imagine having something like this just a train ride away from the downtown Joe Momma's. When you build the major stadium as part of a youth complex you physically tie the stadium to a place your target audience is spending their Saturdays. For MLS to work in Tulsa, we will have to get the families that play soccer now to pony up. They are the target audience...which is good, because there are tons of them. I'd love to see this at the west bank. Here's another pic:  |
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"Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood and probably will not themselves be realized." - Daniel Burnham http://www.joemommastulsa.com |
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2008, 02:50:37 pm » |
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USRufnex has suggested the above before, putting practice fields by the stadium. I would like to see the river district look like the above, but throw in a couple of sports bar&grills and sporting goods stores to go with it.
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TheArtist
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« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2008, 04:33:29 pm » |
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I would like to see more residential and commercial on the west bank.
I think it would be neat to have a soccer stadium just east of OSU Tulsa and the youth and practice fields just east of that. Dont know if its possible but that way OSU Tulsa could help pay for and use the soccer stadium, would have downtown synergies, OSU Tulsa could become more of a well rounded university by being able to offer sports, parking could be used by more people more often possibly connected to rail, etc.
Same benefits you would have if it were by the river but with the added benefits of it being able to be part of the college and downtown.
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"When you only have two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other."-Chinese proverb. "Arts a staple. Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter. Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind. Mans spirit grows hungry for art in the same way h
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JoeMommaBlake
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« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2008, 09:38:26 pm » |
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Mmmm. I like it.
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"Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood and probably will not themselves be realized." - Daniel Burnham http://www.joemommastulsa.com |
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USRufnex
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« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2008, 09:24:28 pm » |
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I'm reading through some stuff from USL and they have a couple of large brouchures... one for potential owners and one brouchure that looks to entice an international club interested in owning a USL franchise in the states... strangely enough, Tulsa is already mentioned in the brouchure as one of the potential cities for international investors...
Yet, the guy from the USL didn't know where Jenks was and hadn't heard anything about the Jenks river project at all...Here's a recent article from Portland on USL or MLS??? The latest idea from the owner of both the basball and soccer teams centers around building the AAA ballclub a brand new stadium while renovating PGE Park into something "soccer specific" for Major League Soccer. Back in 2003, the expansion fee for Tulsa to get a team in MLS was $10mil... now....  Major League Soccer wants $40 million for an expansion franchise.http://www.oregonsports.com/Story.aspx?sc=3&sid=220"PGE Park is the best reason to slow the expansion process because it’s a baseball stadium that can handle soccer. Turning it into a soccer-specific stadium in the short term to handle MLS, as Paulson has publicly discussed, and then building a baseball stadium involves renovating/building two stadiums instead of just building a soccer stadium like so many many cities are doing around the world.
Portland should just build a soccer stadium. It built a tram for OHSU, it should build a soccer stadium for its citizens. A stadium would enhance its global reputation, which can only improve the city’s ability to market to the business community.
And, the stadium, which could double as an outdoor concert venue, needs to be in the heart of the city, in order to counter urban sprawl and save energy."http://www.boutiquemeteo.com/saputo/pano57.htm***Huge panoramic photo of the new 13,000 seat Stade Saputo in Montreal which will open officiallly next week... add a concert stage on one end??? ... Mr. Lynn Mitchell to the white courtesy phone please.... |
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« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 02:10:05 pm by USRufnex »
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USRufnex
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« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2008, 01:50:57 pm » |
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quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
USRufnex has suggested the above before, putting practice fields by the stadium. I would like to see the river district look like the above, but throw in a couple of sports bar&grills and sporting goods stores to go with it.
I've pointed out that the construction of youth fields beside the stadium is one of Major League Soccer's business plans.... but IMHO, having a large number of fields around the stadium has more to do with using youth soccer as a political futbol to get the stadium funded/built than anything that would increase attendance at games... Does "do it for the children" sound familiar? Besides that, when the last third-penny tax passed, it included millions of dollars for Mohawk Park improvements including 16-18 soccer fields... the plan has evolved to now include 30-32 fields last time I checked... Conventions, Sports & Leisure's 2003 feasability study only recommended a downtown location for a soccer stadium w/o the fields... By CURTIS KILLMAN World Staff Writer
2/15/2003A feasibility study ordered by local officials recommends adding several entertainment venues. http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=030215_Ne_a1_studyquote:
The study recommended:
Construction of a new arena with a seating for 14,000 to 18,000 persons.
Construction of a new Double-A baseball stadium with a seating for 13,500 people.
Construction of a 22,000-seat soccer stadium.
Construction of a 7,500-seat amphitheater.
Renovation and expansion of the existing Maxwell Convention Center, to include construction of a new ballroom.
All of the projects, with the exception of the soccer stadium, were recommended to be located downtown. The soccer stadium could be built downtown if leaders opt to not build additional fields adjacent to the stadium.
... also, you can compare TU's renovations for Chapman Stadium to Pizza Hut Park in Frisco, TX and UofH's Robertson Stadium in Houston... Here's more answers about MLS's business plans for new stadiums.... from former Chicago Fire GM Peter Wilt, who had previously been working with Global Development Partners in trying to put together a mixed-use project for MLS in Milwaukee... http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11897432&postcount=83Q: What is the honest truth about having additional entertainment venues around a stadium (meaning restaurants and bars, mainly)? Is this an outdated approach now that new stadia seem to be built in suburbia? Would a stadium in the city surrounded by additional venues for pre/post-match pursuits give the Milwaukee club/fanbase a different feel that that of other teams in MLS?A: No,it's not an outdated approach with stadia in the suburbs. Mixed-use development works in the suburbs, too. There's no single formula for economic success of a stadium. The common theme is that there must be additional revenue streams than just the stadium. Capture of revenues from an urban real estate development near a stadium is still an extremely attractive formula. Harrison, NJ and Washington, DC will have that model. Bridgeview is developing the east parking lot of TP with a waterpark, hotel, shops and restaurants to help fund the stadium. Soccer complexes are another form of ancillary revenue generation that can fund/justify stadium development. Pizza Hut Park used that formula. Colorado used a hybrid of soccer complex and mixed use development. KC and St. Louis are pursuing a similar hybrid model. Toronto is unique in that BMO Field stands alone. It was built inexpensively mainly with public funds and will have year round public usage to help justify the public investment.
A downtown stadium in a mixed-use development would absolutely give the Milwaukee club/fanbase a different feel....though, if we get our stadium, i don't believe it will be downtown.But for USL1, a 22,000 seat stadium is not needed... Driller Park could be used, or Skelly Stadium (even though it'd likely be too big/expensive?)... USL1 wouldn't be opposed to sharing the field with a minor league ballclub... or if Jenks wants to tout a USL1 sized stadium of around 13k, expandable to MLS specs if pipedreams ever come to fruition... Edmond/UCO is looking to attract a team to play at refurbished Wantland Stadium... and is also on USL1's list of cities... http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8787  ***the extra yards on either sideline at Wantland Stadium is the difference between appropriate "soccer" field dimensions (110 x 75) and the dimensions at Skelly (110 x 60+?) |
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« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 01:59:50 pm by USRufnex »
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USRufnex
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« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2008, 05:27:48 pm » |
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Originally posted by PonderInc
I'm all for the Tulsa Roughnecks coming back to town. They could play in...hey!...Skelly Stadium! Or maybe the Fairgrounds could use some of that new open space for something other than livestock.
All this talk reminds me how much I miss Charlie Mitchell's nachos...
... yeah, I liked the ribeye sandwich, myself... back in the day, Skelly Stadium was consistently voted the worst field in the old NASL... a thin layer of astroturf on top of concrete, an awful "crown" for drainage, narrow field dimensions... which is why in 2002, Lamar Hunt told LaFortune, the city of Tulsa and the Tulsa World that Skelly would not be acceptable for MLS... IMO, if $1.8mil would have been spent for stadium renovations in 1993, Tulsa would have been chosen for a league-owned team in MLS to play in the league's inaugural season in 1996... fifteen years later, $24mil in stadium renovations accomplishes... 1. The requested MLS stadium seating capacity for MLS(20k- 30k)... but would be an oversized venue for USL1. 2. Good financials (20 revenue generating luxury suites is three more than you'll find at Pizza Hut Park) 3. New scoreboard. 4. New turf that extends all the way past the sidelines... wonder how wide the field is now? 5. New field-- field turf will work fine for USL1 soccer, but TU just put in the kind of field turf with permanent markings, making it next to impossible for soccer... unless somebody's got a big, fat eraser... http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080522_11_A2_spancl280009 |
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« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 05:39:47 pm by USRufnex »
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2008, 07:35:12 am » |
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Actually Ruf, the field markings aren't painted on - they are inlaid with different colors of field turf. That way they will not fade nor have to be altered until the entire field is ready to die (~10 years for turf, generally). So no size of eraser would remedy the problem.
But I'm sure some clever work around could be found if a real need arose.
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I crush grooves.
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USRufnex
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« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2008, 11:55:26 am » |
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well..... was just trying to be snarky about the new field turf. if you want to see what it looks like when somebody uses a "giant eraser" on a football field, here it is, from a 1981 game against the Jacksonville Tea Men [  ]... (about a minute into the video).... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFGKETFrxQcHaven't received any cold calls from USL offices in Tampa lately, but found this bit of news interesting... Tampa Bay Rowdies to get new life in USL By Eduardo A. Encina, Times Staff Writer Posted: Jun 19, 2008 06:25 PM http://tampabay.com/sports/soccer/article633711.eceThe owners have already paid a one-time $350,000 franchise fee and Nestor said he expects an operating budget of about $2 million. Holt said the new Rowdies will be the first USL franchise to launch in a custom-built soccer stadium that they've built.
"It's unique thing because we've gotten there over time with most of our venues," Holt said.
Nestor said the team's stadium plan is completely independent of the county commissioners plan to build a 30-field soccer facility for $15 million, of which an initial proposal for a larger complex that included a stadium for $40 million.
Tampa has had two pro soccer teams that folded. The Tampa Bay Rowdies played in the NASL for 18 years, playing at Tampa Stadium mostly, but folded in 1993. MLS's Tampa Bay Mutiny, which played at Raymond James, lasted just six years, never able to capture a soccer atmosphere with the lack of an intimate venue.
"We obviously need to prove ourselves to the community," Nestor said. "We as a group understand that there are a lot of question marks."
The ownership group, however, still has plenty of details to work out. Nestor said the ownership will fully fund a 7,500-seat stadium, but a site and price tag have yet to be determined.
The team hired former Rowdies player and Mutiny coach Perry Van Der Beck as technical director and to head the team's youth soccer initiative, but it still needs to hire a general manager and head coach.
The team will retain the old Rowdies colors of green and gold, given permission to take over the NASL brand by former Rowdies owner Cornelia Corbett, but a logo hasn't been released. ------------------------------------------------ USL-1 wants to expand... to 16 teams by 2010... and Tulsa is close to the top of their wishlist, which for whatever reason, includes a desire to resurrect/keep some of the old NASL names like the Rowdies... and the Tulsa Roughnecks... http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16082They will be losing the Seattle Sounders franchise to MLS next year..... the owner/investor group was looking to rename/rebrand the team, but the old NASL/USL name "Sounders" won after a write-in campaign... The league is trying to expand to reduce travel expenses and find some regional rivals for the new team in Austin-- they're looking to Tulsa... as well as OKC (to play at Wantland Stadium in Edmond), San Antonio, Albuquerque, Omaha... Not a big fan of watching soccer games at a minor league ballpark, but something is better than nothing... and there is something to be said for sharing operating expenses for one field compared to  ... USL-1 wants it. For 2010. Does Tulsa? |
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« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 12:08:34 pm by USRufnex »
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TURobY
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« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2008, 12:09:19 pm » |
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Originally posted by USRufnex
USL-1 wants it. For 2010.
Does Tulsa?
We've established that Tulsans are interested, but there isn't much the average layperson can do at this point, correct? I ask, because you seem the most knowledgable poster on this forum, what Tulsans should do? Is there a letter writing campaign? Is there a donor (previous or present) that we should appeal to? It's cool that Tulsa's on the list, but how do we guarantee that we get a golden ticket? |
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---Robert
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brunoflipper
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« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2008, 02:28:06 pm » |
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i do... and lots of other people do as well....
and i cant find it, but i swear on one of the proposed ballpark renderings showed a soccer pitch overlaying the diamond/outfield as well...
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« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 02:36:01 pm by brunoflipper »
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2008, 02:46:32 pm » |
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The new field will be maintained by the Driller's so I'm assuming that you will have to sell the Driller's on this idea as much as anyone else.
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zstyles
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« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2008, 03:19:44 pm » |
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Originally posted by cannon_fodder
+1 Sq.
BUT, we just spent a ton of effort kicking all the Hispanics out of Tulsa - won't a soccer franchise just attract more? [ ]
Better watch our you might stir up Recycle Michaels feelings from that ...and get spanked |
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