A grassroots organization focused on the intelligent and sustainable development, preservation and revitalization of Tulsa.
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 22, 2018, 03:35:14 am
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Surveillance Cameras To Scan License Plates  (Read 27253 times)
Townsend
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12086



« Reply #135 on: November 29, 2017, 12:42:07 pm »


Jail.   It is amazing how fast one comes up with cash - mostly from family and close friends - when one is sitting downtown in lock up.



Yeah - I'll have to call bollocks on that one.
Logged
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 11680



« Reply #136 on: November 29, 2017, 01:38:01 pm »

Yeah - I'll have to call bollocks on that one.


You never had a family member or friend call at 2:00 am asking for bail..??

Lucky you!   I say let them sit - won't get it from me.  If they are grown up enough to get themselves into that, they are grown up enough to get themselves out of it.  They will cut 'em loose in a few hours anyway on OR...too much overcrowding to keep them for long.

Logged

"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
TeeDub
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1325


WWW
« Reply #137 on: November 30, 2017, 08:41:47 am »

Then there's Gaspar's media scenario:

"We are interested in a flattering story about our ____ program, would you be interested in writing it?"
"No?"
"Well, perhaps we could meet over at the Sunrise Motel and discuss.  You are familiar with the Sunrise, aren't you?"
"No need?, Excellent!  We'll send you some ideas for the article."



Not far from the truth....

http://www.fox23.com/news/broken-arrow-police-track-down-possible-clients-after-prostitution-hiv-spreading-bust/655173517
(emphasis mine)

    Dear (REDACTED),

    On October 31, 2017 at approximately 10:00 a.m. a (REDACTED) registered in your name with Oklahoma license plate (REDACTED) was observed at 804 C South 9th Street, Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, which is an area of concern about crimes that affect quality of life, including prostitution. The police department is actively addressing chronic pr oblems in the community through criminal investigations, surveillance, patrols, and Neighborhood Watch programs. For the public's safety, we encourage everyone to be aware of his or her surroundings and to report any suspicious activity to 911. If you no longer own the above vehicle or if this notice was sent in error, please disregard it.

    The Broken Arrow Police Department recently arrested an employee of this business for knowingly transmitting an infectious disease.

    The Broken Arrow Police Department is working closely with citizens to improve the quality of life in our community. If you have any questions or would like more information about our efforts to reduce crime, fear and disorder in Broken Arrow, please call the Special Investigations Unit at 918-451-8200 ext. 8793.
Logged

 
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6720


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #138 on: November 30, 2017, 10:01:53 am »

Not far from the truth....

http://www.fox23.com/news/broken-arrow-police-track-down-possible-clients-after-prostitution-hiv-spreading-bust/655173517
(emphasis mine)

    Dear (REDACTED),

    On October 31, 2017 at approximately 10:00 a.m. a (REDACTED) registered in your name with Oklahoma license plate (REDACTED) was observed at 804 C South 9th Street, Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, which is an area of concern about crimes that affect quality of life, including prostitution. The police department is actively addressing chronic problems in the community through criminal investigations, surveillance, patrols, and Neighborhood Watch programs. For the public's safety, we encourage everyone to be aware of his or her surroundings and to report any suspicious activity to 911. If you no longer own the above vehicle or if this notice was sent in error, please disregard it.
   


It looks like Fox23 buried the lead... that happens when you cut-and-paste media handouts and call it reporting.
The underlying story is only a few steps removed from:

An FBI affidavit made public yesterday in court identified (Police lieutenant Jeffery Scott) Stowe as the person who had attempted to extort $10,000 from a married man after the man visited the Follies Theater, a gay bar in Southeast Washington, in September.

The affidavit also alleges that Stowe used a law enforcement computer system to identify the man and at least two others who visited the club through their automobile license plates.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/library/dc/dcpolice/stories/stowe25.htm
Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6720


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #139 on: November 30, 2017, 10:41:34 am »

The courts have ruled that the license plate data of millions of law-abiding drivers, collected indiscriminately by police across the state, are not “investigative records” that law enforcement can keep secret.

California’s highest court ruled that the collection of license plate data isn’t targeted at any particular crime, so the records couldn’t be considered part of a police investigation.

 “The Supreme Court recognized that California’s sweeping public records exemption for police investigations doesn’t cover mass collection of data by police, like the automated scanning of license plates in this case. The Court also recognized that mere speculation by police on the harms that might result from releasing information can’t defeat the public’s strong interest in understanding how police surveillance impacts privacy."

https://www.eff.org/press/releases/electronic-frontier-foundation-aclu-win-court-ruling-police-cant-keep-license-plate
Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6720


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #140 on: January 26, 2018, 10:28:28 am »


The Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency has officially gained agency-wide access to a nationwide license plate recognition database, according to a contract finalized earlier this month. The system gives the agency access to billions of license plate records and new powers of real-time location tracking, raising significant concerns from civil libertarians.

 “Are we as a society, out of our desire to find those people, willing to let our government create an infrastructure that will track all of us?”


https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/26/16932350/ice-immigration-customs-license-plate-recognition-contract-vigilant-solutions

Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
TeeDub
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1325


WWW
« Reply #141 on: January 27, 2018, 05:19:26 am »



 “Are we as a society, out of our desire to find those people, willing to let our government create an infrastructure that will track all of us?”



Don't you already pay for privilege of carrying a portable GPS tracker?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/world/how-the-nsa-is-tracking-people-right-now/634/

Logged

 
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6720


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #142 on: January 27, 2018, 10:38:29 am »

Don't you already pay for privilege of carrying a portable GPS tracker?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/world/how-the-nsa-is-tracking-people-right-now/634/


You have the option not to carry a phone, but dont have as much an option if you have to drive to work or buy food. There is of course mass transit, but...

If this isnt something with great potential for abuse, why go to so much trouble to dodge public accountability by using private-industry databases and running it out of the D.A.'s union?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 10:08:06 am by patric » Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
TeeDub
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1325


WWW
« Reply #143 on: January 28, 2018, 10:50:57 am »


You don't have to drive....

I am also not sure how ICE needs the database as illegals can't register cars.
Logged

 
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6720


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #144 on: January 28, 2018, 11:39:53 am »


I am also not sure how ICE needs the database as illegals can't register cars.



When this mass-surveillance was first floated in Oklahoma it was to "find stolen vehicles." 
Then it was to find people with warrants. 
Then it was to find uninsured vehicles in Oklahoma. 
In other states the dangling carrot of mission creep has lept to claims of finding terrorists and pedophiles.  Now with billions of data hits at their fingertips, the data merchants like Vigilant and Digital Recognition Network have sued states like Arkansas and Utah for putting restrictions on the use of their privately-owned, warrantless surveillance databases.



Vigilant's point remains that what it does in terms of collection is not a violation of privacy because it does not have access to DMV databases holding personally-identifiable information. It glosses over the fact that it provides access to hundreds of law enforcement agencies around the US, all of which can acquire the connecting data. But that does seem to put the onus on law enforcement agencies to provide adequate privacy protections, including timely disposal of non-hit data.

In the singular (as Vigilant's argument goes), this isn't a privacy violation -- no different that someone taking a picture of a vehicle in public. But several months of time and location data creates something that can only be achieved through dedicated surveillance, something that does raise privacy questions, especially in light of the recent court decision finding that law enforcement officers need warrants to track cell phone users' locations. This is the same principle. Law enforcement agencies shouldn't be accessing months of plate location/time data unless it's part of an investigation -- and if it is, someone neutral needs to be deciding whether or not every license plate hit is relevant to the situation.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140613/09224127569/license-plate-reader-company-sues-another-state-violating-its-first-amendment-right-to-build-18-billion-image-database.shtml


The ultimate hypocrisy of it all is that both Vigilant and law enforcement agencies defend the mass capture of license plate/location data as just gathering publicly-available information. But when it comes to their info, everything's a secret, enforced by contract if necessary. Then they go even further and claim the public information gathered is private and can't be released, even to the owner of the license plates captured. It's a one-way street of data that's disingenuous, dishonest and, above all, an insult to the very public these agencies are meant to serve.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140502/08382227098/company-uses-bogus-polls-gag-orders-to-protect-image-license-plate-scanning.shtml
Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
rebound
Philanthropist
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 832


WWW
« Reply #145 on: January 28, 2018, 06:32:23 pm »


The ultimate hypocrisy of it all is that both Vigilant and law enforcement agencies defend the mass capture of license plate/location data as just gathering publicly-available information. But when it comes to their info, everything's a secret, enforced by contract if necessary. Then they go even further and claim the public information gathered is private and can't be released, even to the owner of the license plates captured. It's a one-way street of data that's disingenuous, dishonest and, above all, an insult to the very public these agencies are meant to serve.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140502/08382227098/company-uses-bogus-polls-gag-orders-to-protect-image-license-plate-scanning.shtml

Maybe I'm just bored on a plane right now (I spend way too much time on planes), but this is really interesting.    Holding the public agencies aside for a bit and looking at this from just the Vigilant side.   It does seem that - assuming they are just driving around and recording license plates (or however, but only recording LPs that are viewable publicly) - that this public info that anyone (assuming they want to invest the time and money) could do.  And, also taking their word that they don't have the personal info on any of the car owners, why couldn't they sell that data to whoever?  Why couldn't, for example, they provide it to the general public?  (For a charge, of course.)  It's not illegal to hire a private eye to follow a someone around (say a cheating spouse...) and track where they go, etc.  Why couldn't  someone request this data from Vigilant?   An on-line request to provide, say, the "last three months of tracking for License Plate XXXXXX"?

They aren't going to make this data public for free, because it took money to get and it has a value.  But while it is on a grand scale, I am having trouble discerning how this is different than any other type tracking that is already legal.

Logged

 
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6720


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #146 on: January 28, 2018, 08:05:40 pm »

Holding the public agencies aside for a bit and looking at this from just the Vigilant side.   It does seem that - assuming they are just driving around and recording license plates (or however, but only recording LPs that are viewable publicly) - that this public info that anyone (assuming they want to invest the time and money) could do.  And, also taking their word that they don't have the personal info on any of the car owners, why couldn't they sell that data to whoever?  Why couldn't, for example, they provide it to the general public?  (For a charge, of course.)  It's not illegal to hire a private eye to follow a someone around (say a cheating spouse...) and track where they go, etc.

Sometimes it is
http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/oklahoma-lawmaker-sues-private-investigator-in-spying-case/article_df736004-84cb-5baf-b958-843dfe693645.html


Why couldn't  someone request this data from Vigilant?   An on-line request to provide, say, the "last three months of tracking for License Plate XXXXXX"?


If it could be argued that you are requesting data about an identifiable individual, it might fall under the category of stalking.
Its already common knowledge that ALPR data peddlers license their databases to corporations and private individuals who have no articuable privacy policies or public accountability (repo men, collection agencies, credit bureaus, insurance companies) but those transactions are secret.
Here's the actual wording in Vigilant's contract, as uncovered by the Electronic Frontier Foundation:

 You shall not create, publish, distribute, or permit any written, electronically transmitted or other form of publicity material that makes reference to LEARN [Law Enforcement Archival and Reporting Network] or this Agreement without first submitting the material to LEARN-NVLS and receiving written consent from LEARN-NVLS. This prohibition is specifically intended to prohibit users from cooperating with any media outlet to bring attention to LEARN or LEARN-NVLS. Breach this provision may result in LEARN-NVLS immediately termination of this Agreement upon notice to you.

So in practice, the data merchants claim the rights guaranteed to a free press while simultaneously hiding in the shadows.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 08:10:25 pm by patric » Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6720


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #147 on: January 31, 2018, 09:26:36 pm »

The Electronic Frontier Foundation supports S.B. 712, a California bill that would allow drivers to cover their plates when they’re parked. This simple privacy measure would create an opportunity for drivers to protect sensitive information about their travel and whereabouts from mass collection by law enforcement and private data brokers.

The threat is all too real. Police agencies have surveilled Muslims by collecting plates in parking lots at mosques. Police officers have used license plates of vehicles parked at gay clubs to blackmail patrons. Anti-choice activists are trained to amass license plates of doctors and patients parked at reproductive health centers. Immigration & Customs Enforcement plans to use private license plate databases, effectively dodging state restrictions on data sharing, as it ramps up its deportation efforts.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/01/california-police-chiefs-misrepresent-license-plate-privacy-bill
Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
TeeDub
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1325


WWW
« Reply #148 on: February 01, 2018, 12:34:20 am »


The threat is all too real. Police agencies have surveilled Muslims by collecting plates in parking lots at mosques. Police officers have used license plates of vehicles parked at gay clubs to blackmail patrons. Anti-choice activists are trained to amass license plates of doctors and patients parked at reproductive health centers. Immigration & Customs Enforcement plans to use private license plate databases, effectively dodging state restrictions on data sharing, as it ramps up its deportation efforts. [/font]
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/01/california-police-chiefs-misrepresent-license-plate-privacy-bill


Broken Arrow did something similar with a "massage parlor" recently.....

Here is the article:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/police-warn-of-potential-need-for-hiv-testing-after-prostitution/article_4a2f6b5a-99be-50cd-9e14-5bbb9e7216a4.html

Police sent letters to the registered owners of vehicles observed at a massage parlor at 804C S. Ninth St., according to a redacted copy of one of the letters.

The massage parlor owner and an employee were arrested last week on prostitution complaints. The letter says the employee also was arrested for “knowingly transmitting an infectious disease.”

The letters informed the vehicle owners that the address was “an area of concern about crimes that affect the quality of life, including prostitution.”
Logged

 
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6720


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #149 on: February 01, 2018, 12:59:55 pm »

Broken Arrow did something similar with a "massage parlor" recently....

If Oklahoma followed California's lead I would imagine the first people to cover up the tag numbers of their parked vehicles would be police, but if you allow it for one group you have to allow it for everyone.   Backing into every parking space wont always be an option.

Meanwhile, more assurances mass-surveillance will only be used in an honest, legal manner:

Police Admit They Disguised a Spy Truck as a Google Streetview Car
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/bmvjwm/this-isnt-a-google-streetview-car-its-a-government-spy-truck

https://t.co/0z4yo2rVoR
Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
  Hosted by TulsaConnect and Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
 

Mission

 

"TulsaNow's Mission is to help Tulsa become the most vibrant, diverse, sustainable and prosperous city of our size. We achieve this by focusing on the development of Tulsa's distinctive identity and economic growth around a dynamic, urban core, complemented by a constellation of livable, thriving communities."
more...

 

Contact

 

2210 S Main St.
Tulsa, OK 74114
(918) 409-2669
info@tulsanow.org