Surveillance Cameras To Scan License Plates

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

How long before every car sold has an RFID tag built in?  Sort of like the OnStar program for big brother...

Believe it or not, the PikePass transponder was originally intended to be just that.  It was designed to be a permanent electronic license tag that could be read by pointing an antenna at the vehicle from a distance, but it is only effective at speeds up to 90 mph.

As far as OnStar, the idea behind that was a GPS tracking device that would let police fall back and wait for the vehicle to reach it's destination, without a dangerous high-speed chase.  It's that later part some departments dont yet understand:  http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071127_1_A15_hAsto22486

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Sorry, but the longest crash data recorder only records for 5 SECONDS, not five minutes.

This one captures the 15 seconds prior to the accident, and five after:
http://technabob.com/blog/2007/07/23/clarion-driveeye-records-car-crashes-automatically


This one captures 25 sec before impact through to 5 secs after:
http://www.truscene.com


Manufacturer claims up to one hour recording time for this one:
http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/car-camera-recorder.html


and a maximum of 1,920 minutes with this one:
http://www.save-on-security.com/accident_DVR.htm

Those are nothing but video cameras.  They do not record anything as mentioned in the earlier post, such as speed, seat belt usage, air bag deployment, delta v, braking, .........

[Ed W]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur


Sorry, but the longest crash data recorder only records for 5 SECONDS, not five minutes.  Ford is coming out with a power module that will record for 25 seconds, but most police don't have the ability to read that device yet.

You're right.  A cursory search lead to some articles that said the longest memory only covers the last 20 seconds, though there are add-on units for parents that have considerably more memory.  These articles were a couple of years old.  One said that a printout of the stored data yielded 6-8 pages of information.  That's a lot for a couple of seconds.

What sparked this originally was a friend's interest in a device that measured acceleration, braking, and cornering forces through the use of a ring laser gyro.  We knew that acceleration may be one parameter available via the car's computer data port, but cornering G's obviously were not.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by Ed W

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur


Sorry, but the longest crash data recorder only records for 5 SECONDS, not five minutes.  Ford is coming out with a power module that will record for 25 seconds, but most police don't have the ability to read that device yet.

You're right.  A cursory search lead to some articles that said the longest memory only covers the last 20 seconds, though there are add-on units for parents that have considerably more memory.  These articles were a couple of years old.  One said that a printout of the stored data yielded 6-8 pages of information.  That's a lot for a couple of seconds.

What sparked this originally was a friend's interest in a device that measured acceleration, braking, and cornering forces through the use of a ring laser gyro.  We knew that acceleration may be one parameter available via the car's computer data port, but cornering G's obviously were not.

The six-eight pages is mostly just computer code jiberish.  Useful data is usually just a page or so.  It varies greatly by manufacturer.

To see if your car has a crash data recorder that can be read by police visit:

http://www.harristechnical.com/downloads/cdrlist.pdf

If your car is not on the list, it may be that the manufacturer makes the data only available to their own technicians.  It does not necessarily mean you cars does not have a recorder.

[patric]

If you're referring to OBDII data from vehicle "black boxes," commercial readers have been available to the public the better part of a decade at places like Sears, NAPA, AutoZone, Oreilly etc.  The car's owner can do as they please with the data but in some states, other parties (insurance, police) either need permission from the owner or a warrant to search the computer.

[TeeDub]

quote:Originally posted by mrhaskellok

TeeDub:

Are you saying that NOT having my car stolen isn't a right?  I don't know what constitution you are ready, but mine says that you can't come take my car.  If you do, I am going to use the third branch of the government, the judicial system, and they are going to catch you with my car, prove your guilt, then sentence you.

While I am all in favor of catching criminals, I think there are some priorities out of whack here.

Yes, you should catch and prosecute car thieves.  (If you don't shoot them first)

[patric]

They still want it, just a new pretext this time:
 

By MICHAEL McNUTT NewsOK.com
Published: 11/27/2009  1:16 PM

OKLAHOMA CITY - State officials are looking at beefing up the state’s electronic insurance verification system by setting up cameras across the state to randomly record vehicle tags.

Cameras set up at about 200 locations along selected highways would focus in on a tag’s bar code — found at the bottom of each tag — and record it. Bar code scanners would match the tag numbers with a national database containing real-time vehicle insurance information.

Vehicle owners without valid insurance would be mailed a ticket.

"That’s a horrible idea,” said Rep. Mike Reynolds, R-Oklahoma City. "It’s Big Brother at its finest.”


"Random"?  As in ALL, in a big fat database?

Or would I be wrong in imagining that police would find other uses for this system besides locating stolen cars?

No, It appears you are not wrong at all.  Im sure "state officials" (like the secretive DPS that's exempt from most accountability laws like the Open Records act) have a long list of why we absolutely cant live without this sort of surveillance.

CORRECTION:  The article incorrectly stated that the traffic scanners read barcodes at the bottom of license tags.  They actually read the tag numbers themselves.

[patric]

Apparently the DPS lied to legislators about the purpose of the barcodes on the new license tags Oklahomans were required to switch to this year:

"Having cameras and bar code scanners record random Oklahoma vehicle tag information is possible because of the new tags that motorists are required to buy this year. Oklahoma’s new vehicle tags include a bar code. All vehicle tags are to be replaced by the end of this year.

(State Representative) Reynolds during this year’s session raised questions about the bar codes on the plates, but was told they were simply for inventory purposes by the state Tax Commission. Now, he said the Public Safety Department’s plans confirm his suspicions."
http://www.newsok.com/article/3420697?searched=insurance%20verification&custom_click=search#ixzz0Y88dIAZm

To make matters worse, the system is supposed to be run the same way "speed cameras" work, with the company running the hardware deciding who gets tickets and giving a cut of the take to the local politicians, to the tune of about $300 million annually.

Now, who thinks this surveillance will be run honestly and ethically, considering they lied about it from the beginning?

[Hoss]

Apparently the DPS lied to legislators about the purpose of the barcodes on the new license tags Oklahomans were required to switch to this year:

"Having cameras and bar code scanners record random Oklahoma vehicle tag information is possible because of the new tags that motorists are required to buy this year. Oklahoma’s new vehicle tags include a bar code. All vehicle tags are to be replaced by the end of this year.

(State Representative) Reynolds during this year’s session raised questions about the bar codes on the plates, but was told they were simply for inventory purposes by the state Tax Commission. Now, he said the Public Safety Department’s plans confirm his suspicions."
http://www.newsok.com/article/3420697?searched=insurance%20verification&custom_click=search#ixzz0Y88dIAZm

To make matters worse, the system is supposed to be run the same way "speed cameras" work, with the company running the hardware deciding who gets tickets and giving a cut of the take to the local politicians, to the tune of about $300 million annually.

Now, who thinks this surveillance will be run honestly and ethically, considering they lied about it from the beginning?

Haha, the barcode on mine is hidden by my tag frame!

Suckers!

Most tag frames hide it, so they obviously didn't put much thought into it.

[patric]

Haha, the barcode on mine is hidden by my tag frame!

Suckers!

Most tag frames hide it, so they obviously didn't put much thought into it.

...until you get pulled over for an "unreadable tag" or some such nonsense.

[Hoss]

...until you get pulled over for an "unreadable tag" or some such nonsense.

You do know where they have the barcode, right?

It's in the 1/2 centimeter indentation around the margins of all tags.  The indentation and angle the reader must have unless mounted on fender flaring would make it nearly impossible to read the codes.  I smell a LOT of litigation over this if it were to come to pass.

[patric]

You do know where they have the barcode, right?

It's in the 1/2 centimeter indentation around the margins of all tags.  The indentation and angle the reader must have unless mounted on fender flaring would make it nearly impossible to read the codes.  I smell a LOT of litigation over this if it were to come to pass.

Apparently the major reason we had to get new tags was because the DPS wanted machine-readable tags for "automated enforcement" systems that use optical character recognition to read the tag numbers.

[Hoss]

Apparently the major reason we had to get new tags was because the DPS wanted machine-readable tags for "automated enforcement" systems that either read the barcode and/or Optical Character Recognition of the tag numbers.

OCR actually works on both (the new and old style numbers; that is to say, the digitized or new, vs the metal stamp or old).  It has to do with contrast between the characters and the background.  But having DPS or police officers pull you over for 'unreadable tag' because you're hiding the barcode won't be enforceable in this instance, unless two things happen.

The law changes
The barcode position is in a more obvious and readable location

[brianh]

You know how in that CSI show, they can take really grainy surveillance camera and enhance it to some super sharp detail? Well, they made all that up, and I am pretty sure there is nothing that will be able to scan that tiny barcode from a distance of over 8 ft; well, not in Oklahoma anyway.

[Breadburner]

Nothin a sharpie wont take care of.....