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Author Topic: Surveillance Cameras To Scan License Plates  (Read 21950 times)
TUalum0982
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« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2008, 11:07:09 am »

quote:
Originally posted by TeeDub


Do you all really believe this crap?

If there are warrants out for me they aren't associated with my car.   Tickets are written to a person.

Are you really going to start pulling over cars because someone who owned it (and could have since sold it) has tickets?   Come on, let's get real here.





maybe you should watch a show on A&E every tuesday night called "Parking Wars".  When you get a traffic citation, and you don't show up for court, a warrant is issued.  It will also be tied to that vehicle.  For example, when I interned with TPD we ran a tag in the apts behind the QT at 48th and Yale.  It came back a hit from NCIC for the registered owner having warrants out of California for Sexual Assault.  Maybe my post earlier was a bit confusing and unclear, I apologize!
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lockers
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« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2008, 11:32:52 am »

quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982


maybe you should watch a show on A&E every tuesday night called "Parking Wars".  When you get a traffic citation, and you don't show up for court, a warrant is issued.  It will also be tied to that vehicle.  For example, when I interned with TPD we ran a tag in the apts behind the QT at 48th and Yale.  It came back a hit from NCIC for the registered owner having warrants out of California for Sexual Assault.  Maybe my post earlier was a bit confusing and unclear, I apologize!



The point isn't that the cops shouldn't be able to run plates, rather, that a police state isn't justifiable by a very minor amount of stolen vehicles or traffic violations.  Of course your sympathetic that the police have a tough job, as am I, but their job _should_ be tough.  The price of freedom requires it.  I understand that you embrace the automated orwellian end of reasonable search and seizure, since this is exactly what this is.  The same people can be retrieved with competent officers who understand that they are here to serve the community instead of government spies.  Is it to much to ask that police actually investigate rather than be technological taxi drivers.  If it is, they need to be paid minimum wage.
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PonderInc
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« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2008, 02:50:23 pm »

How long before every car sold has an RFID tag built in?  Sort of like the OnStar program for big brother...
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Ed W
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« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2008, 03:11:07 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

How long before every car sold has an RFID tag built in?  Sort of like the OnStar program for big brother...



The current on-board computers record time and speed giving derived acceleration as well as whether the brakes are applied.  I think the duration is something like the last 5 minutes of operation.  So in a crash investigation, the police and insurance company can look at the data and determine how you were driving in the moments before the crash.  There's even a parental data recorder that gives the same information over a longer time span so an adult can monitor his teen's driving.

Also, it records and holds the highest speed the vehicle attained.  This can be used to deny warranty repairs.
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Ed

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« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2008, 03:41:33 pm »

The thing is if the car is stolen it will be a total loss anyhoo, since police chases more offten than not end in crashs. The policy is to chase till crash. At least it is in most departments. Why not just follow the car or use a air chopper. soooner or latter the driver is going to have to stop.
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mrhaskellok
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« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2008, 03:57:13 pm »

I think there are arguments from both sides of the coin going on here, problem is you are missing one critical point.

Law enforcement has been HIRED to catch stolen cars, people with warrants, etc.  If you don't want them to spend any or much time on these tasks, the laws need to be changed.  

For example, if you made me Chief of Police and then a book of local laws, I am going to want to find as many creative but effective ways to make me look like I am doing my job (pride booster included).  Funny, so many people are against cameras that find stolen cars or people with warrants because of the potential that they would actually be trying to do their job.  Also, the fear of law enforcement using their job's abilities or equipment to target innocent civilians strikes me as strange.  Again, 99% of the cops out there just want to do their job and go home...they are still human like you and I don't forget.

Does that mean that there are those out there who abuse their job?  Of course, but if we use poor logic (conspiracy theory)to make all of our decisions, then it is also a good idea to take away their guns too.  After all, there are probably bad cops who are going to shoot someone that was innocent (happened many times).

The reality is, we can't.  They need weapons to catch the bad guys and we need them to do it.  We can't /won't so we HIRE people to catch bad guys and stolen cars.

ERGO, they go out and find new and yes, "cool" ways to do this.  If you don't want your license plate scanned they or ran against a database of criminals, then go ahead and take it off.   Then you can have your name in that database too! [Cheesy]

Truth is this technology is great for small towns.  In many small towns all across Oklahoma, tens of thousands of cars drive through and the respective PD's are unequipped to cross check cars with potential drug traffickers, stolen cars, etc.  

Again, if you think that we should not have them looking for the people trafficking drugs as best they can (legally), then change the laws, but don't hire these guys then tell them they have to  use ineffective equipment.  It isn't fair to the officers.  Should we not allow them access to computers with internet because someone might exploit it?  Or should we instead give them the tools and resources they need to do the job we have asked them to do.

Hats off to the TPD for looking for innovative and new solutions for doing their job better.  Wish more city officials did it.  

Cannon_Fodder:  Do you think we should not have laws and enforce them because someone will try to find a loophole?  So we should just give up altogether?  I agree, some crooks are smart, but come on, you are stretching things a bit don't you think?  Every casino in Vegas would shut down if they had to because they could not catch everyone that out smarted them.  It is funny you brought up the equipment being used to steal cars.  Are you aware of the advancement in technology there has been in the tools car thieves use?  

Don't worry, I get it, we shouldn't bring that in to the discussion because even if the crooks are using more and more advanced equipment to steal cars, even if we DID know how to help stop it, we wouldn't want to because SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE, would abuse the system and we will all end up in a concentration camp where we wont even need cars.  (sorry, not saying you are implying this, it just seems like that is where the conversation  always goes)

HIRE good people, PROMOTE innovation, REWARD excellent results.  That is how you will keep ahead of crime, IMO.

Sid
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mrhaskellok
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« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2008, 04:04:14 pm »

TeeDub:

Are you kidding?  Are you saying that NOT having my car stolen isn't a right?  I don't know what constitution you are ready, but mine says that you can't come take my car.  If you do, I am going to use the third branch of the government, the judicial system, and they are going to catch you with my car, prove your guilt, then sentence you.

Since we carry life insurance should we allows murders to run wild too?  PLEASE, PLEASE clarify before I die of laughter.  

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Wilbur
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« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2008, 06:55:52 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Ed W

So this system compares license plate images to a stolen car database as a patrol car moves past parked cars.  Would it be difficult to compile a database of ALL the cars it scanned and couple that to GPS information?  Then the police would have a list of cars parked outside a nightclub or a political rally.  On one hand, it might have a value in crime prevention but on the other it would have a chilling effect on free speech.

Or would I be wrong in imagining that police would find other uses for this system besides locating stolen cars?


First, it doesn't do just parked cars, it also does cars as you drive along with them.

Second, the system doesn't work as you mentioned, recording and working with GPS, although, I suppose you could make it work that way.  Although, a pen and a piece of paper does the same thing for a lost less $$$.

Third, it will do any database you have a list for.  Stolen cars?  Sure.  People with traffic warrants?  Sure.  The list would just have to have license plates as part of the data.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2008, 07:12:43 pm by Wilbur » Logged
Wilbur
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« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2008, 06:58:28 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by TeeDub


How about we protect the police we have now before we start worrying about a few dollars worth of stolen cars.  

How about this:   If the insurance companies think car theft is so rampant, maybe they can buy these for the cops?    Oh wait...



First, in-car cameras for police do nothing to protect the police from harm.  They only record what happened to give investigators as start afterwards.

Second, several cities have had insurance companies buy these systems for them.  Recover one car and you've paid for the system already.
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Wilbur
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« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2008, 07:02:16 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by TeeDub


Do you all really believe this crap?

If there are warrants out for me they aren't associated with my car.   Tickets are written to a person.

Are you really going to start pulling over cars because someone who owned it (and could have since sold it) has tickets?   Come on, let's get real here.


Actually, warrants are tied to both people AND the car you were driving at the time.  Police can run your license plate and, if you have an arrest warrant because you didn't pay a ticket, that license plate will show an arrest warrant associated.
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Wilbur
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« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2008, 07:08:39 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Ed W

quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

How long before every car sold has an RFID tag built in?  Sort of like the OnStar program for big brother...



The current on-board computers record time and speed giving derived acceleration as well as whether the brakes are applied.  I think the duration is something like the last 5 minutes of operation.  So in a crash investigation, the police and insurance company can look at the data and determine how you were driving in the moments before the crash.  There's even a parental data recorder that gives the same information over a longer time span so an adult can monitor his teen's driving.

Also, it records and holds the highest speed the vehicle attained.  This can be used to deny warranty repairs.


Sorry, but the longest crash data recorder only records for 5 SECONDS, not five minutes.  Ford is coming out with a power module that will record for 25 seconds, but most police don't have the ability to read that device yet.

And, we're only talking a few vehicles so far.  Most Fords and GMs, a few Dodges, with Volvo and Toyota coming on line.  

And not all of them provide all the data you mention.  Only a few record speed, most record whether your seatbelt was on.  Some record braking and accelerator operation.
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Wilbur
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« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2008, 07:11:30 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut

The thing is if the car is stolen it will be a total loss anyhoo, since police chases more offten than not end in crashs. The policy is to chase till crash. At least it is in most departments. Why not just follow the car or use a air chopper. soooner or latter the driver is going to have to stop.


Would LOVE to see your source for anything you just mentioned in this post.  Most pursuits do NOT end in crashes and I don't know of one department whose policy is to 'chase 'till crash."

Tulsa's policy is to turn pursuits over to the helicopter, who follows the bad guy (usually home).
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rico33
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« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2008, 07:13:28 pm »

wow.. interesting...
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Wilbur
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« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2008, 07:18:18 pm »

I don't see Tulsa buying any of these because of the cost ($20,000), since they cost almost as much as the car you are putting it in.

I like the concept, but the systems are very big and must be mounted on the outside of the car, which makes them prone to theft and vandalism.

Perhaps once the technology catches up and makes them small enough to mount inside a car, much the same as a radar system, perhaps they'll be a little more user friendly.

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rhymnrzn
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« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2008, 07:35:52 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by patric

(TULSA, Okla.) March 19 - An extra set of high tech eyes could be making
its way to the Tulsa Police Department.  This new equipment can spot a
stolen car with in seconds.
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=856a5ca0-76e2-4ca8-a256-6382af8368ff

So now TPD is testing the MPH 900 cameras that can read a license plate.
 “All you got to do is drive and it's going to do it for you."  In that
time, the machine will alert Officer David Hickman if the tag is from a
stolen car.

It can even spot cars Officer Hickman didn't see.  “It reads it and
there’s no way I could turn around and get all the information on the
tag. It can do it so much faster than a human can."

Officer Hickman says it's not just reading stolen car information.  The
system is linked directly to the National Crime Information Center.

So any cars that police believe are linked to crimes will set off the
alarm.  "That's going to lower the crime rate, because you're going to
get the shooting suspects and violent crime suspects off the streets."

Right now the Tulsa Police Department is doing a test with the camera
for about two weeks. They cost $20,000.

http://www.wired.com/cars/energy/news/2005/06/67864
http://www.remingtonelsag.com/mobile_hunter.htm
http://webserver.computoredge.com/editorial/2449/in1print.htm



It is a shame on us, and it is a bad testament of society that we resort to these devices rather than trusting in God, who is able to persuade men to not do crime, especially when we convince them that the Lord is with us.
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