101st and Memorial

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

I never would've guessed Inteller was a nimby.

I'm not nimby, I'm against incompatible development.  I WANT something on that corner, but something that is compatible with the traffic conditions and character of the surrounding neighborhoods.  At 101st/sheridan you have the Shoppes of Seville....and 101st/Mingo they are getting Plaza del Sol.....but because we are at Memorial we have to settle for a big ****ing box?  I don't think so.

I think Inteller just graduated TulsaNow University...

[rwarn17588]

The neighborhood at 101st and Memorial actually has character?!

[}:)]

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

The neighborhood at 101st and Memorial actually has character?!

[}:)]

We know it has at least 1 character.

[Ibanez]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

I keep hearing that the Super Target is going in at 121st and Memorial. Seemed to be dead for a while but the rumors have come roaring back lately

It's apparently dead now.....
Maybe that's who is behind the nimby group at 101st.

Interesting. It has been strange how the rumors of Target had come back to life so strong lately. For the longest time the talk was that Target had pulled out and that now a Reasor's was going in as an anchor store. Then BAM!!! Target is back.

Really interested to see what actually happens at 121st now.

[tulsascoot]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

The neighborhood at 101st and Memorial actually has character?!

[}:)]

If you call suburban sprawl character. []

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

I keep hearing that the Super Target is going in at 121st and Memorial. Seemed to be dead for a while but the rumors have come roaring back lately

It's apparently dead now.....
Maybe that's who is behind the nimby group at 101st.

Interesting. It has been strange how the rumors of Target had come back to life so strong lately. For the longest time the talk was that Target had pulled out and that now a Reasor's was going in as an anchor store. Then BAM!!! Target is back.

Really interested to see what actually happens at 121st now.

Target claims they cant get enough parking spaces at 121st.  Bull****.  We all know they just want to be first along memorial before you get to walmart.  But how many people, after getting pissed off just getting between 169 and 101st, are then going to make several dangerous left turns to go to Target?  I bet they'll just continue straight on down to make a righty into Wal-Mart.

[Composer]

I agree with Inteller.  Hunt Properties is developing Bixby Centennial Plaza.  They are the same company that developed Smith Farm in Owasso.  I think they know what it takes to get Target.  There are plenty of parking spaces for Target at 121st.  That location is better suited for Target anyway.  You can take 121st west all the way to Riverside Dr. and Memorial is not as crowded at 121st.  I think the Bixby location would be better for them.

 However, I think the city of Tulsa has a mission.  Their mission is to fill the boundaries of the city with retail so that the suburbs have less of a chance to get big box stores.  That is exactly what they did at 71st and Garnett/169 area.  That development but a damper on Broken Arrow getting retail for several years.  Now Broken Arrow is finally getting a Target and Marshall's and many other stores.  Tulsa saw what happened in Owasso and does not want to see that happen in Bixby either.  Broken Arrow will continue to grow far enough east that they will be able to get more retail.  If Tulsa puts a Target bordering Bixby, the city of Bixby will lose out on ever getting a Target.  

Many North Tulsa shoppers shop in Owasso.  If Tulsa could figure out how to get a Wal-Mart or Target near N. Tulsa, people would not be traveling to Owasso as much.  Tulsa Hills is a way at keeping people from going to Jenks or Glenpool for retail.  Yes, Glenpool is getting a nice Wal-Mart but I would not look for them to get a Best Buy, Target, or Lowe's.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Composer

I agree with Inteller.  Hunt Properties is developing Bixby Centennial Plaza.  They are the same company that developed Smith Farm in Owasso.  I think they know what it takes to get Target.  There are plenty of parking spaces for Target at 121st.  That location is better suited for Target anyway.  You can take 121st west all the way to Riverside Dr. and Memorial is not as crowded at 121st.  I think the Bixby location would be better for them.

 However, I think the city of Tulsa has a mission.  Their mission is to fill the boundaries of the city with retail so that the suburbs have less of a chance to get big box stores.  That is exactly what they did at 71st and Garnett/169 area.  That development but a damper on Broken Arrow getting retail for several years.  Now Broken Arrow is finally getting a Target and Marshall's and many other stores.  Tulsa saw what happened in Owasso and does not want to see that happen in Bixby either.  Broken Arrow will continue to grow far enough east that they will be able to get more retail.  If Tulsa puts a Target bordering Bixby, the city of Bixby will lose out on ever getting a Target.  

Many North Tulsa shoppers shop in Owasso.  If Tulsa could figure out how to get a Wal-Mart or Target near N. Tulsa, people would not be traveling to Owasso as much.  Tulsa Hills is a way at keeping people from going to Jenks or Glenpool for retail.  Yes, Glenpool is getting a nice Wal-Mart but I would not look for them to get a Best Buy, Target, or Lowe's.

i can't think of anything that would be more embarassing politically to Tulsa, no grocery store in north tulsa and 3 grocery stores at one intersection in south tulsa.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Composer

I agree with Inteller.  Hunt Properties is developing Bixby Centennial Plaza.  They are the same company that developed Smith Farm in Owasso.  I think they know what it takes to get Target.  There are plenty of parking spaces for Target at 121st.  That location is better suited for Target anyway.  You can take 121st west all the way to Riverside Dr. and Memorial is not as crowded at 121st.  I think the Bixby location would be better for them.

 However, I think the city of Tulsa has a mission.  Their mission is to fill the boundaries of the city with retail so that the suburbs have less of a chance to get big box stores.  That is exactly what they did at 71st and Garnett/169 area.  That development but a damper on Broken Arrow getting retail for several years.  Now Broken Arrow is finally getting a Target and Marshall's and many other stores.  Tulsa saw what happened in Owasso and does not want to see that happen in Bixby either.  Broken Arrow will continue to grow far enough east that they will be able to get more retail.  If Tulsa puts a Target bordering Bixby, the city of Bixby will lose out on ever getting a Target.  

Many North Tulsa shoppers shop in Owasso.  If Tulsa could figure out how to get a Wal-Mart or Target near N. Tulsa, people would not be traveling to Owasso as much.  Tulsa Hills is a way at keeping people from going to Jenks or Glenpool for retail.  Yes, Glenpool is getting a nice Wal-Mart but I would not look for them to get a Best Buy, Target, or Lowe's.

Target's decision is based on their own studies using demographics and competition locations. The ability of a developer to deliver their needs is paramount.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by Composer

I agree with Inteller.  Hunt Properties is developing Bixby Centennial Plaza.  They are the same company that developed Smith Farm in Owasso.  I think they know what it takes to get Target.  There are plenty of parking spaces for Target at 121st.  That location is better suited for Target anyway.  You can take 121st west all the way to Riverside Dr. and Memorial is not as crowded at 121st.  I think the Bixby location would be better for them.

 However, I think the city of Tulsa has a mission.  Their mission is to fill the boundaries of the city with retail so that the suburbs have less of a chance to get big box stores.  That is exactly what they did at 71st and Garnett/169 area.  That development but a damper on Broken Arrow getting retail for several years.  Now Broken Arrow is finally getting a Target and Marshall's and many other stores.  Tulsa saw what happened in Owasso and does not want to see that happen in Bixby either.  Broken Arrow will continue to grow far enough east that they will be able to get more retail.  If Tulsa puts a Target bordering Bixby, the city of Bixby will lose out on ever getting a Target.  

Many North Tulsa shoppers shop in Owasso.  If Tulsa could figure out how to get a Wal-Mart or Target near N. Tulsa, people would not be traveling to Owasso as much.  Tulsa Hills is a way at keeping people from going to Jenks or Glenpool for retail.  Yes, Glenpool is getting a nice Wal-Mart but I would not look for them to get a Best Buy, Target, or Lowe's.

Target's decision is based on their own studies using demographics and competition locations. The ability of a developer to deliver their needs is paramount.

hahaha, what a joke.  Yeah, I'm sure their "complex" demographic analysis showed them that they should be at 121st, but then the human element stepped in and said "But we want to be in front of wal-mart waaaaahhhhhh!!!!"

[Composer]

Retailers get better demographic information than the cities actually have.  It is kind of funny but they track a lot of information.  Personally, I think there are political things going on here.  Tulsa really wants to see a sales tax boost and having 2 new targets will definitely help that.  Losing one to Bixby will only hurt.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Composer

Retailers get better demographic information than the cities actually have.  It is kind of funny but they track a lot of information.  Personally, I think there are political things going on here.  Tulsa really wants to see a sales tax boost and having 2 new targets will definitely help that.  Losing one to Bixby will only hurt.

well I'm sure it has turned into that.  But I think what pisses me off the most is that Bumgarner has had almost a decade to get South Towne Square off the ground but squandered that.  And saying that the original concept isn't viable is bull****, just look at the mixed use retail at Regal Plaza right down the street.  He has numerous holdings throughout Tulsa but have ANY of them actually been developed?  He looks more and more like a squatter that will sell out to the biggest box rather than a developer who will give us quality developments throughout Tulsa.

[South County]

quote:Originally posted by Composer

I agree with Inteller.  Hunt Properties is developing Bixby Centennial Plaza.  They are the same company that developed Smith Farm in Owasso.  I think they know what it takes to get Target.  There are plenty of parking spaces for Target at 121st.  That location is better suited for Target anyway.  You can take 121st west all the way to Riverside Dr. and Memorial is not as crowded at 121st.  I think the Bixby location would be better for them.

 However, I think the city of Tulsa has a mission.  Their mission is to fill the boundaries of the city with retail so that the suburbs have less of a chance to get big box stores.  That is exactly what they did at 71st and Garnett/169 area.  That development but a damper on Broken Arrow getting retail for several years.  Now Broken Arrow is finally getting a Target and Marshall's and many other stores.  Tulsa saw what happened in Owasso and does not want to see that happen in Bixby either.  Broken Arrow will continue to grow far enough east that they will be able to get more retail.  If Tulsa puts a Target bordering Bixby, the city of Bixby will lose out on ever getting a Target.  

Many North Tulsa shoppers shop in Owasso.  If Tulsa could figure out how to get a Wal-Mart or Target near N. Tulsa, people would not be traveling to Owasso as much.  Tulsa Hills is a way at keeping people from going to Jenks or Glenpool for retail.  Yes, Glenpool is getting a nice Wal-Mart but I would not look for them to get a Best Buy, Target, or Lowe's.

Not to sure about your Glenpool analysis. There is another major corner at 151st and 75 and the sign on the SE corner says sold. If Glenpool can get commercial development to take hold there (and word is buzzing about it), they would have effectively extended the retail bracketing south 3 more miles into the City limits. I know some think the area is too green, but with Bixby housing (south and west of the river) moving westward the 151st corner looks more and more viable everyday. []

Remember Lowe's built and 71st & 169 and then just about 5-6 miles further south at 121st and Memorial. It wouldn't be unheard for them to be 8 miles apart (71st and 75 and 151st and 75)[:O]

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by inteller


no we live in the neighborhood, Target lives in another world and wants to destroy ours.

Yeah, Target would be worse than the movie theater, the car dealerships, and Trinity Restoration.

Or not. I'd rather have a Target in Tulsa that I can walk to than one in Bixby that I'd have to drive to.

Memorial is not Mingo, nor is it Yale. Unlike the others, Memorial is heavy commercial along almost its entire length. Perhaps one ought not live along a road of that character if one doesn't like that sort of development.

I'd be just as happy if it weren't a Super Target, but maybe a Target with groceries would get Food Pyramid to start paying attention to the product they're selling, rather than rearranging the deck chairs. A Whole Foods would also be nice.

[Ibanez]

quote:Originally posted by South County

quote:Originally posted by Composer

I agree with Inteller.  Hunt Properties is developing Bixby Centennial Plaza.  They are the same company that developed Smith Farm in Owasso.  I think they know what it takes to get Target.  There are plenty of parking spaces for Target at 121st.  That location is better suited for Target anyway.  You can take 121st west all the way to Riverside Dr. and Memorial is not as crowded at 121st.  I think the Bixby location would be better for them.

 However, I think the city of Tulsa has a mission.  Their mission is to fill the boundaries of the city with retail so that the suburbs have less of a chance to get big box stores.  That is exactly what they did at 71st and Garnett/169 area.  That development but a damper on Broken Arrow getting retail for several years.  Now Broken Arrow is finally getting a Target and Marshall's and many other stores.  Tulsa saw what happened in Owasso and does not want to see that happen in Bixby either.  Broken Arrow will continue to grow far enough east that they will be able to get more retail.  If Tulsa puts a Target bordering Bixby, the city of Bixby will lose out on ever getting a Target.  

Many North Tulsa shoppers shop in Owasso.  If Tulsa could figure out how to get a Wal-Mart or Target near N. Tulsa, people would not be traveling to Owasso as much.  Tulsa Hills is a way at keeping people from going to Jenks or Glenpool for retail.  Yes, Glenpool is getting a nice Wal-Mart but I would not look for them to get a Best Buy, Target, or Lowe's.

Not to sure about your Glenpool analysis. There is another major corner at 151st and 75 and the sign on the SE corner says sold. If Glenpool can get commercial development to take hold there (and word is buzzing about it), they would have effectively extended the retail bracketing south 3 more miles into the City limits. I know some think the area is too green, but with Bixby housing (south and west of the river) moving westward the 151st corner looks more and more viable everyday. []

Remember Lowe's built and 71st & 169 and then just about 5-6 miles further south at 121st and Memorial. It wouldn't be unheard for them to be 8 miles apart (71st and 75 and 151st and 75)[:O]

Isn't that SE corner owned by a church? I seem to remember a sign saying "Future home of Church    name X"