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April 18, 2024, 07:29:59 pm
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Author Topic: Islamic Jesus  (Read 12719 times)
Wingnut
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« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2008, 12:04:43 pm »

In response to the #3 that R2X couldn't answer, from a link I posted:

Christ was crucified at the third hour [Mark 15:25]
Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour [John 19:14,15]
At what hour was Jesus crucified?
Mark 15:25 says it was in the third hour, 9:00 a.m. John 19:14-15 says that in the sixth hour (different clock). He was still not crucified yet but was being judged before Pilate. This was at about 6 a.m.
So three hours later He had carried the cross up to Golgotha (with some help) and was crucified.
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and Acts use Hebrew time for their reckoning. John uses Roman time. Another example of this is in John 18:28 -- early morning refers to the fourth Roman watch, which was 3 a.m. to 6 a.m. --MAW
They had their sundials set in different time zones.[Cheesy]

Something else that I found incredibly interesting is that Jesus, also called the Lamb of God, was crucified at the same time the Chief Priests were performing the slaughter of the sacrificial Passover lamb according to Jewish traditions. Why is that important? Because God said that without the shedding of blood, there is no redemption. Jesus was the sacrificial lamb for our redemption, and was sacrificed at the correct time.
But you guys probably already knew that.

CF,
I have read your replies and find them very interesting. It's the time that I have to study and generate my responses that are my issue. I do marvel at the time you have taken to study so that you can know what you believe. Too many people today just believe what they hear without studying and searching to see if what they are told is true.
As before, it is by faith that we believe things, especially Bibical precepts. Ephesians 2:8 says For by grace you are saved through faith,.... If we don't have faith, it's all pointless. Everyone has faith, it's just what are people putting their faith in? The Bible says to be perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect. I would much rather put my faith in God, (who is perfect) than in myself, who makes lots of mistakes, or a theory that keeps changing.
I do thank you for the discussion. It has been a great exercise.
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restored2x
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« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2008, 12:34:02 pm »

Have you guys (and perhaps gals) ever heard about the theory of pre-history (also called the gap theory)? Just a theory - but interesting. It goes something like this (Wingnut, correct or add if you're familiar with this):

Basically, the Hebrew syntax and language of Genesis chapter one, verse one and the transition to verse two may suggest that God created a world - our universe - in verse one, and then there was a gap (perhaps of billions of years) until a "recreation" of the heavens and the earth and then man was created to inhabit a formerly inhabited earth in verse two.

Have you heard of this? What do you think?
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FOTD
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« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2008, 01:02:06 pm »

This thread has gotten bedeviled....
In Tulsa, you open a crack to a religious thread and a whole bunch of weird disrespectacle "stuff" comes seeping through.

"a friend of the devil is a friend of mine...."
Hunter/Nelson/Garcia
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rwarn17588
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« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2008, 02:35:01 pm »

Interesting, restored2x.

That theory certainly has more credence than the highly dubious notion that the Earth is 6,000 years old.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2008, 02:42:19 pm »

Agreed.  I suspect many of the establishment will adopt such a theory as evidence continues to mount.  Which will come both as a relief and as a point of frustration - where science can admit it was wrong, religions often can not so such changes are slow in coming and somewhat odd.

I'm actually surprised the Deist beliefs of our forefathers didn't catch on.  It seems very American to me.

But more directly, no.  I have not yet heard this theory. I really wish I knew more about Greek/Hebrew/Latin and could follow the translations better.  When trying to follow such nuisances one really needs to grasp the linguistic details as well as connotations.  I've done some research to figure out this or that, but as a whole I remain ignorant.
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Townsend
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« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2008, 04:41:44 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by restored2x

Have you guys (and perhaps gals) ever heard about the theory of pre-history (also called the gap theory)? Just a theory - but interesting. It goes something like this (Wingnut, correct or add if you're familiar with this):

Basically, the Hebrew syntax and language of Genesis chapter one, verse one and the transition to verse two may suggest that God created a world - our universe - in verse one, and then there was a gap (perhaps of billions of years) until a "recreation" of the heavens and the earth and then man was created to inhabit a formerly inhabited earth in verse two.

Have you heard of this? What do you think?




There was a scifi book about a moon landing finding the remains of an earth astronaut from millions of years ago.  A previous human rocket age.

I'm sorry I can't supply the author or title but the cover was an illustration of a skeleton in a red astronaut suit laying prone against a large moon rock.

That's all I've got about that theory but it was way interesting to me.
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restored2x
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« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2008, 04:59:53 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Townsend

quote:
Originally posted by restored2x

Have you guys (and perhaps gals) ever heard about the theory of pre-history (also called the gap theory)? Just a theory - but interesting. It goes something like this (Wingnut, correct or add if you're familiar with this):

Basically, the Hebrew syntax and language of Genesis chapter one, verse one and the transition to verse two may suggest that God created a world - our universe - in verse one, and then there was a gap (perhaps of billions of years) until a "recreation" of the heavens and the earth and then man was created to inhabit a formerly inhabited earth in verse two.

Have you heard of this? What do you think?




There was a scifi book about a moon landing finding the remains of an earth astronaut from millions of years ago.  A previous human rocket age.

I'm sorry I can't supply the author or title but the cover was an illustration of a skeleton in a red astronaut suit laying prone against a large moon rock.

That's all I've got about that theory but it was way interesting to me.



COOL! If anybody knows the title of this book - please let me know. Sci-fi and not bible - but cool nonetheless.
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Wingnut
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« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2008, 07:38:22 pm »

I have heard of it but also know little about it.
My take on it....

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
      1:2 And the earth was formless and void and darkness was over the
surface of the waters....

Looking up the Greek meanings, Formless (“without form” in the KJV) means
empty, nothing, nothingness.
Void: undistinguishable ruin, emptiness.

If that’s the case from vs. 2, what could have lived there? The planet
was covered with water. What could have lived there in the darkness?
Plants didn’t exist, He hadn’t created them yet. Nor could they have any
soil, therefore no fossils either. This was the first day of creation.
Light was also created on the first day.
The word “and”, I feel, is important as it joins vs. 1 & 2 together. I
don’t see how millions of years could fit in there.
Let’s say there were millions of years between vs. 1&2. What would it
matter, there still wouldn’t be any fossils or plant life since there is
no light to produce any life. Land and vegetation weren’t created until
the 3rd day. Critters were created on the 5th day.

Gen 3:21:  And the Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife
and clothed them.

After Adam and Eve got booted out of the garden, this is the first
physical death. Skin means hide or leather, which would have come from an
animal that God slaughtered for the skin. Up until this time nothing had
died, except the spiritual connection with God after they ate the
forbidden fruit. Hence the need for Jesus to come and reconcile us back
to God.

Problems with the gap theory:
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-gaptheory-problems.html

From the Christiananswers.net website...
Pember's struggle with long “geologic ages” has been the struggle of many
Christians, ever since the idea of millions of years for the fossil
record became popular in the early 19th century. Many respected Christian
leaders of today wrestle with this same issue.
Recounting Pember's struggle helps us understand the implications of the
gap theory. The following is based on or quoted from his book Earth's
Earliest Ages.
Pember, like today's conservative Christians, defended the authority of
Scripture. He was adamant that one had to start from Scripture alone, and
not bring preconceived ideas to Scripture, thus changing its meaning. He
boldly chastened people who came to the Bible “filled with myths,
philosophies, and prejudices, which they could not altogether throw off,
but retained, in part at least, and mingled—quite unwillingly,
perhaps—with the truth of God” (page 5). He describes how the Church is
weakened when man's philosophies are used to interpret God's Word:
 
For, by skillfully blending their own systems with the truths of
Scripture, they so bewildered the minds of the multitude that but few
retained the power of distinguishing the revelation of God from the
craftily interwoven teachings of men.
And the result is that inconsistent and unsound interpretations have been
handed down from generation to generation, and received as if they were
integral parts of the Scriptures themselves; while any texts which seemed
violently opposed were allegorized, spiritualized, or explained away,
till they ceased to be troublesome, or perchance, were even made
subservient (page Cool.   

He then warns Christians:
 
For, if we be observant and honest, we must often ourselves feel the
difficulty of approaching the sacred writings without bias, seeing that
we bring with us a number of stereotyped ideas, which we have received as
absolutely certain, and never think of testing, but only seek to
confirm.[11] (end of quote)

{I see this statement as going along with what Fodder said has gotten him off of the belief that the Bible is inspired; too much human intervention in what the Bible really says.)

I don’t see how a million year theory can fit in the beginning of
creation, especially with the order in which God created earth and the
things on it.
If that was the case, where did the waters come from afterwards? Does the
theory explain that God may have just wiped it all clean and started
over? If that’s the case, it wouldn’t hold with the evolution theory as
it doesn’t necessarily support a water event or Noah’s flood. (even
though the earth is covered with water!! Go figure).
I think the quotes above explain it pretty well. People dig into the
Bible with preconceived ideas and try to make them fit into what the
Bible says. I see the gap theory as just that. An idea that is looking
for a place to lite in the Bible, that will bring creationists and
evolutionists together by bringing evolution into a place that they don’t
agree with, making it more agreeable to them. In other words, twisting,
or adding to, scripture so they will believe it.

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but
wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves
teachers in accordance to their own desires,

The gap theory just doesn’t jive.

FOTD, I'm sorry your thread got off topic. It really wasn't intended to
go this way, honest!

 
quote:
There was a scifi book about a moon landing finding the remains
of an earth astronaut...

I saw a cartoon of a couple of astronauts looking over a woman laying
prone on the face of the moon and one of them said "It's Alice Cramden"
At least I thought it was funny.[Tongue]

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