OHP Not Sure About Lights

[RecycleMichael]

Are officers required to maintain these videos in any way? If so, there is no doubt they are public record. They have been made with public dollars so they are probably are subject to an open records request, but I believe some states do have exemptions for records pertinent to an ongoing criminal investigation.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Are officers required to maintain these videos in any way? If so, there is no doubt they are public record. They have been made with public dollars so they are probably are subject to an open records request, but I believe some states do have exemptions for records pertinent to an ongoing criminal investigation.

They are allowed to rewind and tape over them if its something routine where just a contact was written (a warning).  If its a simple "hey mam, the reason I stopped you is because I clocked you doing 71 in a 65. Do you have your insurance and DL on you?  Thank you mam please slow it down, have a good day" Then they would just rewind the tape alot of the times.  

I am not 100% on their actual policy and how it is written though.  I am sure if someone were to request it through the freedom of Information Act, it could probably be made available.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Are officers required to maintain these videos in any way? If so, there is no doubt they are public record. They have been made with public dollars so they are probably are subject to an open records request, but I believe some states do have exemptions for records pertinent to an ongoing criminal investigation.

Different departments do things different (imagine that).  Some require their officers to turn in their 'tapes' each day and the tape must contain the entire shift (except for lunch/dinner).  Some don't require that they be turned in at all.  Some leave it up to the officer to determine what evidence should be turned in for use in court.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Are officers required to maintain these videos in any way? If so, there is no doubt they are public record. They have been made with public dollars so they are probably are subject to an open records request, but I believe some states do have exemptions for records pertinent to an ongoing criminal investigation.

I think they are public record until the trooper twists off and starts shouting , "get out of the car mother ****er!"  Or "I'm going to stomp a mud-hole in you ***** just because I feel like it!!!"

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

With nearly everything being public record, including all cellphone bills, emails and everything else, do we know for sure dash cam videos are not public record?  Has anyone asked?

The Tulsa Whirled asked to view dashcam video of the potty-mouth trooper incident
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071004_1_A13_hrpah60381
but was told "The official Department of Public Safety video of the traffic stop isn't accessible through the state's Open Records Act, (OHP lawyer) James said.

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

With nearly everything being public record, including all cellphone bills, emails and everything else, do we know for sure dash cam videos are not public record?  Has anyone asked?

The Tulsa Whirled asked to view dashcam video of the potty-mouth trooper incident
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071004_1_A13_hrpah60381
but was told "The official Department of Public Safety video of the traffic stop isn't accessible through the state's Open Records Act, (OHP lawyer) James said.

That was when there was an ongoing criminal investigation. Someone should ask now and see what happens.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

quote:Originally posted by patric


The Tulsa Whirled asked to view dashcam video of the potty-mouth trooper incident
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071004_1_A13_hrpah60381
but was told "The official Department of Public Safety video of the traffic stop isn't accessible through the state's Open Records Act, (OHP lawyer) James said.

That was when there was an ongoing criminal investigation. Someone should ask now and see what happens.

The "perjury" charges are still open to be re-filed (after the DA's untruthful statements got the first one thrown out) so nothing has changed. Also...

"I promise you Miss White's going to pay for her actions from a legal standpoint because we are going to file suit on her in Oklahoma for libel and slander. And we're going to go after her". -- Oklahoma City attorney Gary James who represents the Oklahoma State Troopers Association.
http://bubbaworld.com/2007/09/29/liar-liar-pants-on-fire
..but odds are the unedited original is long gone...

If dashcam video would have cleared the speeding trooper in the young mother's death, you would  think OHP would have rushed to make it public given their obsessive sensitivity to criticism.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

I can say once they turn on the lights their dash cam already goes into record mode and their body mic (if they are wearing it) is turned on.  So if his lights were on, the camera was recording and vise versa.

Yup, that's how I understand it.
So an absence of dashcam video documenting the crash might imply what?
[/quote]

Coverup?
[/quote]


WINNAR!!!! something just doesnt seem right with this situation.  In the absence of no dashcam, one would have to believe he didnt have his lights on.


[/quote]
And just how did we jump to that conclusion?
 Your personal investigation has revealed what?  Your knowledge of the facts has determined what?  Your discussions with investigators has found what?
[/quote]

Well process of elimination would lend us to believe that in order for the dashcam to be on, he either has to activate his lights, or turn it on himself and his dashcam wasnt on, then that would lead me to believe that he didnt have his lights on. Unless he reached up himself to turn off the recording but that would go against policy.  So I am not implying there was a coverup, quite frankly I dont care either way, but I am pretty confident that if his lights were on, the dashcam would have been recording.  I thought that was common knowledge.
[/quote]

Do we know if:

1.  He even had a dash camera?  Not all OHP cars do.  They are very expensive.

2.  If he had a dash camera, did it have the option to automatically activate when the emergency lights are turned on?  Not all of these systems do this automatically.  Again, an issue of expense.  When Tulsa had dash cams, none of the systems did this.

If I remember correctly, he was responding to a collision.  Most officers would not activate a dash camera simply when responding to a wreck.

I don't know if his lights/siren were on the the time of the wreck, but I'm not going to scream coverup simply because there is no dash cam footage put out by OHP.  They have stepped up when one of their troopers was at-fault in a wreck in the past, so no reason not to do so again.
[/quote]

1.  I have never seen an OHP car that did not have a dash cam.  When they go through their academy they get specific training on how to properly use their dash cam.  Secondly, OHP is not like TPD where alot of times they have a backer.  OHP is out working on the highways 95% of the time by themselves without a backer.  

2.  Every single OHP car equipped with a dash cam is automatically turned on when the lights are activated.  Once again, I have never seen one that doesnt do this, its standard procedure.  You can not compare the dash cams that TPD used vs the ones that OHP uses.  TPD used a Sony unit that was very expensive to buy, maintain and replace.  It was a normal sony handycam you could buy in the stores that was retrofitted to mount to the dash.  Meanwhile, the OHP use a camera that is mounted to the windshield of a car next to the rearview mirror.  It is not of a typical design like you could buy in stores.  Next time you see a trooper have someone pulled over, check out the way they are parked behind them.  They park at an angle so their in car camera system can record anything that happens.  

They typically look like this:
http://www.mobile-vision.com/products/camsmicsmonitors/nitewatchcamera.htm  

and to your comment which stated "If I remember correctly, he was responding to a collision.  Most officers would not activate a dash camera simply when responding to a wreck"

Ask any OHP officer and they will tell you, once they turn on their lights, the camera AUTOMATICALLY STARTS RECORDING unless they manually stop it.  THATS STANDARD PROCEDURE ACROSS THE BOARD FOR ANY OHP TROOPER.  I have never ever ever seen an OHP cruiser that did not have a dash cam for the reasons I explained above.  Like I said earlier, I am not saying there is a cover up, but to sit there and try to compare TPD in dash cams to that of OHP is like comparing apples to oranges.  OHP's equipment is far superior then most TPD equipment.  

Who originally put the LED light bars on their cars to better be seen? thats right, OHP.  Who followed suit 2 or so years ago? thats right, TPD.  OHP has had these mobile vision cameras in their cars for years.  They are quite handy as well, you can rewind, pause, fast forward and delete just like you can with a typical VCR all on a nice 4" sized screen or so.  


Do me a favor, the next time you get pulled over a by a trooper check two things....Is he parked at angle behind you so his camera will catch anything that would happen and secondly, does he have a camera installed next to the rear view mirror.


[/quote]
I'll ask again.  Do we know, with first hand knowledge, if that specific OHP police car had a dash cam and was it activated at the time?  Don't give me 'most police cars have them.'  Don't give me 'all troopers train on them.'  Don't give me other probabilities.  Give us facts, not assumptions!
[/quote]

I am giving you facts.  I dare you to find an OHP car that goes on regular patrol that does not have a dash cam.  I honestly don't think you can do it.  I know some of the supervisors cars dont have them, etc but like I said, I dont think you will be able to find one that goes out on his regular shift to do patrol that does not have a dash cam.  I am not making assumptions, I have been giving facts.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

I can say once they turn on the lights their dash cam already goes into record mode and their body mic (if they are wearing it) is turned on.  So if his lights were on, the camera was recording and vise versa.

Yup, that's how I understand it.
So an absence of dashcam video documenting the crash might imply what?

Coverup?
[/quote]


WINNAR!!!! something just doesnt seem right with this situation.  In the absence of no dashcam, one would have to believe he didnt have his lights on.


[/quote]
And just how did we jump to that conclusion?
 Your personal investigation has revealed what?  Your knowledge of the facts has determined what?  Your discussions with investigators has found what?
[/quote]

Well process of elimination would lend us to believe that in order for the dashcam to be on, he either has to activate his lights, or turn it on himself and his dashcam wasnt on, then that would lead me to believe that he didnt have his lights on. Unless he reached up himself to turn off the recording but that would go against policy.  So I am not implying there was a coverup, quite frankly I dont care either way, but I am pretty confident that if his lights were on, the dashcam would have been recording.  I thought that was common knowledge.
[/quote]

Do we know if:

1.  He even had a dash camera?  Not all OHP cars do.  They are very expensive.

2.  If he had a dash camera, did it have the option to automatically activate when the emergency lights are turned on?  Not all of these systems do this automatically.  Again, an issue of expense.  When Tulsa had dash cams, none of the systems did this.

If I remember correctly, he was responding to a collision.  Most officers would not activate a dash camera simply when responding to a wreck.

I don't know if his lights/siren were on the the time of the wreck, but I'm not going to scream coverup simply because there is no dash cam footage put out by OHP.  They have stepped up when one of their troopers was at-fault in a wreck in the past, so no reason not to do so again.
[/quote]

1.  I have never seen an OHP car that did not have a dash cam.  When they go through their academy they get specific training on how to properly use their dash cam.  Secondly, OHP is not like TPD where alot of times they have a backer.  OHP is out working on the highways 95% of the time by themselves without a backer.  

2.  Every single OHP car equipped with a dash cam is automatically turned on when the lights are activated.  Once again, I have never seen one that doesnt do this, its standard procedure.  You can not compare the dash cams that TPD used vs the ones that OHP uses.  TPD used a Sony unit that was very expensive to buy, maintain and replace.  It was a normal sony handycam you could buy in the stores that was retrofitted to mount to the dash.  Meanwhile, the OHP use a camera that is mounted to the windshield of a car next to the rearview mirror.  It is not of a typical design like you could buy in stores.  Next time you see a trooper have someone pulled over, check out the way they are parked behind them.  They park at an angle so their in car camera system can record anything that happens.  

They typically look like this:
http://www.mobile-vision.com/products/camsmicsmonitors/nitewatchcamera.htm  

and to your comment which stated "If I remember correctly, he was responding to a collision.  Most officers would not activate a dash camera simply when responding to a wreck"

Ask any OHP officer and they will tell you, once they turn on their lights, the camera AUTOMATICALLY STARTS RECORDING unless they manually stop it.  THATS STANDARD PROCEDURE ACROSS THE BOARD FOR ANY OHP TROOPER.  I have never ever ever seen an OHP cruiser that did not have a dash cam for the reasons I explained above.  Like I said earlier, I am not saying there is a cover up, but to sit there and try to compare TPD in dash cams to that of OHP is like comparing apples to oranges.  OHP's equipment is far superior then most TPD equipment.  

Who originally put the LED light bars on their cars to better be seen? thats right, OHP.  Who followed suit 2 or so years ago? thats right, TPD.  OHP has had these mobile vision cameras in their cars for years.  They are quite handy as well, you can rewind, pause, fast forward and delete just like you can with a typical VCR all on a nice 4" sized screen or so.  


Do me a favor, the next time you get pulled over a by a trooper check two things....Is he parked at angle behind you so his camera will catch anything that would happen and secondly, does he have a camera installed next to the rear view mirror.


[/quote]
I'll ask again.  Do we know, with first hand knowledge, if that specific OHP police car had a dash cam and was it activated at the time?  Don't give me 'most police cars have them.'  Don't give me 'all troopers train on them.'  Don't give me other probabilities.  Give us facts, not assumptions!
[/quote]

I am giving you facts.  I dare you to find an OHP car that goes on regular patrol that does not have a dash cam.  I honestly don't think you can do it.  I know some of the supervisors cars dont have them, etc but like I said, I dont think you will be able to find one that goes out on his regular shift to do patrol that does not have a dash cam.  I am not making assumptions, I have been giving facts.
[/quote]


You may be giving us facts as to SOME or even several OHP cars, but you are not giving us direct facts related to this specific case.  You are simply jumping to conclusions based on facts that are unrelated.

Thank god you are not heading up this, or any other, investigation.  The poor soles you would be hanging out to dry as you jump to conclusions.

Are you saying your comments to the jury would go something along the lines of:  'Ladys and gentlemen, he must be guilty because everyone else has one, so he must have one too.'

I don't think so.  You'll never find any DA to run with that flimsy argument.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:
I'll ask again.  Do we know, with first hand knowledge, if that specific OHP police car had a dash cam and was it activated at the time?  Don't give me 'most police cars have them.'  Don't give me 'all troopers train on them.'  Don't give me other probabilities.  Give us facts, not assumptions!

I am giving you facts.  I dare you to find an OHP car that goes on regular patrol that does not have a dash cam.  I honestly don't think you can do it.  I know some of the supervisors cars dont have them, etc but like I said, I dont think you will be able to find one that goes out on his regular shift to do patrol that does not have a dash cam.  I am not making assumptions, I have been giving facts.

You may be giving us facts as to SOME or even several OHP cars, but you are not giving us direct facts related to this specific case.  You are simply jumping to conclusions based on facts that are unrelated.

Thank god you are not heading up this, or any other, investigation.  The poor soles you would be hanging out to dry as you jump to conclusions.

Are you saying your comments to the jury would go something along the lines of:  'Ladys and gentlemen, he must be guilty because everyone else has one, so he must have one too.'

I don't think so.  You'll never find any DA to run with that flimsy argument.
[/quote]

You are putting words in my mouth sir.  For God sake,the last time I checked, this was a message board not a court room, correct??  I am not saying that in any way, form, shape or fashion.  I was simply posting my knowledge of OHP dash cams to the people that read this board.  So for you to sit there and put words in my mouth is absurd.  I gave facts about the OHP cars.  Once again, I ask that you find me an OHP car that goes on regular patrol that doesn't have a dash cam.  I would be willing to bet you cant, hence why I would say over 95% of them patrol by themselves without a partner. (and there are over 800 troopers in the state). How hard of a concept is this to understand?

I am not saying he did or didnt have his lights and sirens on. I was posting FACTUAL INFORMATION ABOUT OHP CARS.  Once their lights are turned on, their camera is activated and if they are wearing their body mic, that is turned on as well.  Easy enough for you?  

Now as to how many in dash cams are actually installed, I will find out for you if you give me some time.

To your comment about "SOME or several OHP cars".  I dont know what your definition of "some or several" is but to me that means a handful of say 10-20.  If you think there are just "some or several" OHP cars with in dash cams then you are dumber then I originally thought.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:
I'll ask again.  Do we know, with first hand knowledge, if that specific OHP police car had a dash cam and was it activated at the time?  Don't give me 'most police cars have them.'  Don't give me 'all troopers train on them.'  Don't give me other probabilities.  Give us facts, not assumptions!

I am giving you facts.  I dare you to find an OHP car that goes on regular patrol that does not have a dash cam.  I honestly don't think you can do it.  I know some of the supervisors cars dont have them, etc but like I said, I dont think you will be able to find one that goes out on his regular shift to do patrol that does not have a dash cam.  I am not making assumptions, I have been giving facts.

You may be giving us facts as to SOME or even several OHP cars, but you are not giving us direct facts related to this specific case.  You are simply jumping to conclusions based on facts that are unrelated.

Thank god you are not heading up this, or any other, investigation.  The poor soles you would be hanging out to dry as you jump to conclusions.

Are you saying your comments to the jury would go something along the lines of:  'Ladys and gentlemen, he must be guilty because everyone else has one, so he must have one too.'

I don't think so.  You'll never find any DA to run with that flimsy argument.

You are putting words in my mouth sir.  For God sake,the last time I checked, this was a message board not a court room, correct??  I am not saying that in any way, form, shape or fashion.  I was simply posting my knowledge of OHP dash cams to the people that read this board.  So for you to sit there and put words in my mouth is absurd.  I gave facts about the OHP cars.  Once again, I ask that you find me an OHP car that goes on regular patrol that doesn't have a dash cam.  I would be willing to bet you cant, hence why I would say over 95% of them patrol by themselves without a partner. (and there are over 800 troopers in the state). How hard of a concept is this to understand?

I am not saying he did or didnt have his lights and sirens on. I was posting FACTUAL INFORMATION ABOUT OHP CARS.  Once their lights are turned on, their camera is activated and if they are wearing their body mic, that is turned on as well.  Easy enough for you?  

Now as to how many in dash cams are actually installed, I will find out for you if you give me some time.

To your comment about "SOME or several OHP cars".  I dont know what your definition of "some or several" is but to me that means a handful of say 10-20.  If you think there are just "some or several" OHP cars with in dash cams then you are dumber then I originally thought.


[/quote]

I'm finally glad we can both agree that neither of us know if his specific car (we don't even know if he was driving is regularly assigned car or a spare) was equipped with a dash cam, which has been my point throughout.  Thus, neither of us have any knowledge that there ever was a video tape of the event.

And I'll leave the personal attacks out of my posts.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

I dont know what your definition of "some or several" is but to me that means a handful of say 10-20.

I cant speak for the accuracy of your numbers, but with a ballpark figure of 800 troopers and only 10-20 not having functioning dashcams, the odds are that Williams car had a camera.

If any of our resourceful LEO's have asked their colleagues for the low-down on this, they dont seem to be publicizing the results here, at least, but for the sake of discussion, if the odds are in favor of Williams car having a camera, the odds are in favor OHP would have attempted to retrieve the video as part of their "extensive" investigation.

If they found no recording was made, the odds are in favor that the camera wasnt activated by the light bar, perhaps by some mechanical defect or the failure of Williams to activate his light bar before speeding down the highway.  

If Williams failed to activate his light bar, the odds are the OHP spokeswoman's initial statement that he did was a routine uninformed assumption that he followed policy and not a finding of facts (but she and the media rushed to incorrectly report it as fact).  The odds are also that OHP now has enough of those facts to go into silent mode and prepare to face the judge.

Perhaps what struck me the most was the cold, calloused way they reported the wreck as a "trooper injured" and the death of the young mother was just something inconsequential.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

I dont know what your definition of "some or several" is but to me that means a handful of say 10-20.

I cant speak for the accuracy of your numbers, but with a ballpark figure of 800 troopers and only 10-20 not having functioning dashcams, the odds are that Williams car had a camera.

If any of our resourceful LEO's have asked their colleagues for the low-down on this, they dont seem to be publicizing the results here, at least, but for the sake of discussion, if the odds are in favor of Williams car having a camera, the odds are in favor OHP would have attempted to retrieve the video as part of their "extensive" investigation.

If they found no recording was made, the odds are in favor that the camera wasnt activated by the light bar, perhaps by some mechanical defect or the failure of Williams to activate his light bar before speeding down the highway.  

If Williams failed to activate his light bar, the odds are the OHP spokeswoman's initial statement that he did was a routine uninformed assumption that he followed policy and not a finding of facts (but she and the media rushed to incorrectly report it as fact).  The odds are also that OHP now has enough of those facts to go into silent mode and prepare to face the judge.

Perhaps what struck me the most was the cold, calloused way they reported the wreck as a "trooper injured" and the death of the young mother was just something inconsequential.

Awful lot of playing the odds here.

And the media determines the headlines of a news story, certainly not OHP.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

And the media determines the headlines of a news story, certainly not OHP.

I wish that were true, but if you go from media outlet to media outlet and read the same story, many make just cosmetic changes to press releases until someone actually has the gaul to pin them down on the facts.

There's a reason the OHP doesnt play nice with the Whirled when there are so many other media that appreciate a regular spoon-feeding.  A PIO can misrepresent a case freely during the excitement of the news breaking, but a defense attorney knows that any sort of factual balance will have to wait till the trial.  By then, it's too late for any retractions or clarifications.

The trooper was speeding down a highway, and should have activated his lights.  The OHP apparently assumed that's what he did, and reported that as fact to media that didnt question it.
The very evidence who's presence might have backed up that claim may, by it's apparent absence, backfire on the OHP by casting doubt on their story.  If the tape did exist, dont you think they would have paraded it before a sympathetic OKC paper they way they did with the
Potty Mouth Traffic Stop case?

[patric]

It was all a cover-up.
What a surprise.

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Investigating-OHP/EUJIqhHnUkSvNxSlINlSjw.cspx


"I think [OHP] did not tell the truth to cover up for their highway patrolman. I have no doubt that this has happened before and I have no doubt that this has happened again."