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November 14, 2018, 07:03:52 am
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Author Topic: Better Streetlights for Tulsa  (Read 149311 times)
Hoss
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« Reply #465 on: November 10, 2018, 02:25:10 pm »

People are surprised to find out that HP Sodium actually has blues and greens in its spectra (whereas amber LEDs dont), but lighting salesmen portrayed that as ugly compared to their new "white" lights (because the bluish-gray pallor in the sky from "white" lights isnt ugly?)



New street lights illuminating Blue Dome District
https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/smallbusiness/new-street-lights-illuminating-blue-dome-district/article_a467f80d-1c5e-5d58-a506-aee7e772f7fa.html

The city of Tulsa contracted Crossland Heavy Contractors to do the work, which replaced the acorn-style street lamps. The job was funded through the Blue Dome Tax Increment Financing District, which was created in 2003 to stimulate development in a nine-block area.


FWIW I like these flat-lens Domus fixtures MUCH better than the acorns, but I like the warm-white 3000K version even more.







I've switched all the light bulbs in my house to the 2700K leds.  That's close to warm-white right?  It seems that way.  I initially was buying ones that seemed way too blue.
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« Reply #466 on: November 10, 2018, 05:35:57 pm »

I've switched all the light bulbs in my house to the 2700K leds.  That's close to warm-white right?  It seems that way.  I initially was buying ones that seemed way too blue.

You are spot on.  
The biggest mistake most people make picking LEDs is not realizing that "daylight" bulbs are a lot bluer than the incandescent bulbs they are replacing.  They might be suited for a kitchen or garage but not living spaces.  

Outdoors, blue-rich lights are horrendous.  A warm white light at night might be neighbor-friendly while a daylight bulb of the same intensity might be totally unacceptable, due to the dark-adapted eyes' greater sensitivity to blue (Scotopic vision).

Im noticing what might be a trend among realtors to use daylight bulbs everywhere to give a home a "sparkle" when showing the property in the daytime, but that effect becomes ghoulish when the sun goes down.

Aesthetics aside, light color affects us biologically (as it does all living things). You dont want your lighting to continually push your Circadian Rhythm button telling you its wake-up time when its close to bedtime.  Daylight is for daytime.

« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 05:40:45 pm by patric » Logged

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swake
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« Reply #467 on: November 10, 2018, 07:29:12 pm »

You are spot on.  
The biggest mistake most people make picking LEDs is not realizing that "daylight" bulbs are a lot bluer than the incandescent bulbs they are replacing.  They might be suited for a kitchen or garage but not living spaces.  

Outdoors, blue-rich lights are horrendous.  A warm white light at night might be neighbor-friendly while a daylight bulb of the same intensity might be totally unacceptable, due to the dark-adapted eyes' greater sensitivity to blue (Scotopic vision).

Im noticing what might be a trend among realtors to use daylight bulbs everywhere to give a home a "sparkle" when showing the property in the daytime, but that effect becomes ghoulish when the sun goes down.

Aesthetics aside, light color affects us biologically (as it does all living things). You dont want your lighting to continually push your Circadian Rhythm button telling you its wake-up time when its close to bedtime.  Daylight is for daytime.



I have some tunable smart bulbs in lamps. With an app they can be changed anywhere between 2700 to 6500.

I also have RGB bulbs in all my outdoor fixtures and in my path lights and lights in my flower beds so I have instant holiday lighting anytime I want.
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Cetary
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« Reply #468 on: November 11, 2018, 07:48:59 am »

To add on to Patric's recommendation for various color temperature use cases indoors, I would recommend a CCT no higher then 3500K anywhere. 3500K is a relatively pleasing neutral white in contrast to 2700K. It is nowhere nearly as truly ugly and jarring as 2700K and 5000K+ combination setups. The California Lighting Technical Center at UC Davis advises no more then 3500K anywhere in residential projects. On a side note, that group advised Davis in its pioneering usage of the warm 2700K street lighting in the GreenCobra Jr. But on the subject, I purchased 3500K A19 bulbs for my friend's bathroom that originally was using 5000K everywhere, and she loves the 3500K. People don't realize that there's a wide range of CCT's between 2700K and 5000K that is underutilized. I support Patric's original statement on the blue-rich LEDs, they don't belong anyplace people are at night.  

Also wanted to elaborate on Patric's statement on the 5000K LED lamp. The 5000K LED is *marketed* as daylight, but the actual typical SPD of 5000K LED looks almost nothing like actual sunlight. The CRI values aren't any higher then the typical 80 CRI, and they don't even touch on the R9 and R12 values of a black body radiator. The R9 value determines how well a white light source reproduces saturated reds. Residential grade LED lighting typically has single digit to the teens R9 values, and blue-rich high CCT LEDs have shown R9 values so poor they actually register in the negative range. That means things like skin tones look really pale and washed out. That's leaving out how ghoulish 5000K is by itself at night. Sunlight, by the way, has perfect R9 and R12 and a perfect 100 CRI as does the warm white 2700K incandescent. I just had a another friend that thought his 5000K LED's were somehow objectively better white light then 2700K incandescent by looking more subjectively 'white.' I had to correct him on that.

It also looks like hotels now are using 5000K too now. The last hotel I stayed at in Seattle had 5000K everywhere...even the clockface was 5000K. I brought my own custom built 2700K 90 CRI/50 R9 flashlights to light the room after dark. Keep in mind flashlights have gotten way more powerful since lithiuim batteries and LED, so there's usable output for long runtimes now. Walking down the hallways and seeing rooms with open doors lit in 5000K was a very shocking experience. Their lights were literally just blue, like *so* blue. I really emphasize this, there is so much blue content in a 5000K LED. And this hotel was exposing all its guests to this.


On another note, it looks like we may be looking at the future of street lighting in Austria.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9tMAvjc3VA

Warm white along the mains and amber residential and low traffic areas.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 08:14:42 am by Cetary » Logged
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