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Author Topic: "Welcome to America. Speak English" Truck  (Read 4616 times)
MichaelC
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« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2007, 02:24:11 pm »

I think I drifted there restored2x.  Don't know if I provided answers, just hope I provided something to think about.

Terms get thrown around so often, sometimes regardless of meaning.  It's hard to tell where someone is coming from, what their motives are.  Sometimes an apple is not really an apple, even though it calls itself one.
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restored2x
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« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2007, 02:39:14 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by MichaelC

I think I drifted there restored2x.  Don't know if I provided answers, just hope I provided something to think about.

Terms get thrown around so often, sometimes regardless of meaning.  It's hard to tell where someone is coming from, what their motives are.  Sometimes an apple is not really an apple, even though it calls itself one.



No drift at all - I really appreciate your explanations. You definitely provided me with some food for thought. I tend to think about stuff while I do mindless tasks like mowing the lawn, raking leaves, etc. Some of your thoughts will be pondered. This provides some "mental folders" to scan later when I make time to think. (Life is pretty busy when you actually have to set time aside to think!)

It's pretty cool to break something like this down into smaller pieces and see what's behind the attitudes and behaviors.
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MichaelC
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« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2007, 03:05:52 pm »

It is interesting to look into terms.  It's unfortunate IMO, what happened to the term "Nation-State", and Nation, and Nationalism.  Because even though the old "Nation-State" is Utopian, the "Nation" part of that is the important word.  Not State.  "Nation" is supposed to define the type of "State" in "Nation-State."  It defines the philosophy or make-up of the State.  It's defines, sometimes, the practices and intentions of the state.

And today, people use the word Nation and State interchangeably.  People use Nation as if it means "country".  The term Nation-State no longer has a meaningful purpose.  Shouldn't exist, if defined as it is today.

Though Wiki has a pretty good explanation.  I hadn't looked until just now.  Doesn't really cover the philosophical/Utopian, aspect much.  But it's not bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation-state
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spoonbill
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« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2007, 03:30:18 pm »

Ok. . .How do I start.  

I disagree with the way the "Trucker" phrased his banner.  But I support his right to display it.

I also believe that every immigrant that wants to live in America should learn to speak English.  It would be damaging to our country and devastating to the immigrants not to.  Let me explain the reasoning behind this before you start calling me names.

An immigrant that moves to America is at a significant disadvantage if he or she cannot speak English.  They cannot take full advantage of the American dream, and will, in many cases, be taken advantage of.  Many of these people speak only their native language with their American born children.  As a result, these children enter elementary school without an ability to communicate with most of their classmates and teachers.

I work with a Vietnamese gentleman who speaks fair english, his wife does not. They only spoke Vietnamese with their child until the kid was 5.  As a result, the public school they have now placed the child in, has no idea what to do except offer a language program and hold the child back until she learns to communicate on a level that will allow her to function within the system.  This child may never have the same opportunity as her classmates.

 We have so many diverse cultures that are added to our population every year, we cannot make the accommodations necessary to communicate in all of their native languages, and secondly it is not our responsibility to do so.  

As a young man I worked as a paramedic and was faced with a situation where a Asian patient was convulsive, in and out of conciseness, and in a great deal of pain.  We delivered him to the hospital and it was 6 hours until we could find a translator for his particular Chinese dialect.  As it turned out, he was suffering from a rather impressive kidney stone, was allergic to the morphine we had given him, and had active tuberculosis.  He was trying to communicate the entire time.  What we thought were convulsions were pained attempts to communicate.  We came very close to killing him, and he nearly infected us.

I speak some Spanish and I know several hispanic laborers that speak no English.  They are brilliant craftsmen and in many cases they have a better understanding of construction than their foremen, but they will always be paid less and offered less opportunity.  Too many doors will be closed to them.

It's not fair to oppress these people by portraying a system of accommodation that simply can not exist.

I have no problem with people speaking their native language, in fact I find it fascinating.  But. . .American citizens must be able to communicate, and to do so we need a single national language, and we must mandate an understanding of it.

If that makes me a racist, or a bigot, or any other of the favorite words thrown around by "Discussion Forum Elite," then so be it.

The BS that is being posted in this thread under the guise of "multiculturalism" is amazing!  English is spoken by nearly 1.8 Billion and has the fastest growing lexicon of any language with about 25,000 words added to the language each year.  That's nearly 100 times the number of new words added each year in the Spanish language (most of which are English adaptations).  That's 68.5 new words every day!  

As a result of the dominance of english in science, technology, and invention, most of the new words added to other languages are simply adaptations of new English words, with the exception of the French language that strictly resists the addition of new vocabulary that is not of a french origin.

I'm not saying it's the best language.  I don't really care.  It's the language of our country.  If you can speak it, then no matter what your nationality, you are open to all of the opportunity that our country has available.  If you cannot speak it. . .and don't intend to learn it. . .and would like to demand that America make concessions necessary to accommodate you, than you are free to do so, but you will simply have to exist within the box you have built for yourself.  Don't worry there will be lots of "multiculturalists" to speak for you. . . you just won't know what BS they are spewing.
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rwarn17588
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« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2007, 03:44:46 pm »

Spoonbill, what do you say about states, such as New Mexico, that are officially bilingual? They do this because Spanish-speaking people were there long before before the white men came.

What about Indians on tribal land? Since Indian territory is a sovereign nation, shouldn't they able to speak their own language?

Plus, the second generation of immigrants in the U.S. speak English fluently. Is an English-only designation truly needed when the assimilation is going to occur anyway?

It seems like this is all a tempest in a teapot, and the more you examine the English-only silliness, the less practical it becomes.

This is America. Let folks speak whatever language they like. They'll adjust to English; if it's practical, they will do so.
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MichaelC
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« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2007, 03:45:06 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by spoonbill

Don't worry there will be lots of "multiculturalists" to speak for you. . . you just won't know what BS they are spewing.



We are "multi-cultural".  Always have been.  "Multi-culturalism" doesn't have to be promoted, sometimes defended from strange attacks, but not promoted.  It's here.  It's what makes the USA, the USA.

You don't hate the USA do you?  [Tongue]
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spoonbill
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« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2007, 04:21:18 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588

Spoonbill, what do you say about states, such as New Mexico, that are officially bilingual? They do this because Spanish-speaking people were there long before before the white men came.


As I said.  They can live within the box they create for themselves (I guess NM is thier box), but I would rather see them have more oppertunity.

quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588

What about Indians on tribal land? Since Indian territory is a sovereign nation, shouldn't they able to speak their own language?


As I said.  They can live within the box they create for themselves (I guess the reservation is thier box), but I would rather see them have more oppertunity.

quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588

Plus, the second generation of immigrants in the U.S. speak English fluently. Is an English-only designation truly needed when the assimilation is going to occur anyway?


Many do not until after they enter the public school system, and this holds them back, preventing many oppertunities.  Ask a Tulsa Public School elementary teacher.

quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588

It seems like this is all a tempest in a teapot, and the more you examine the English-only silliness, the less practical it becomes.


Don't diminish this argument.  If you are not an English-only fan, good for you.  You seem to be able to communicate very well using English, however, it makes no difference what language a community of people speak as long as they can all communicate with each other.  So for the purpose of this argument, lets call it "The Single-Language" argument, so as not to offend those who believe English to be inferior.

 A barrier is a barrier.  Do you believe that immigrants to America have the same opportunities if they opt to not learn English?  Do you think they pose a burden or even a hazard to others or themselves if they have no ability to communicate linguistically?

quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588

This is America. Let folks speak whatever language they like. They'll adjust to English; if it's practical, they will do so.



I agree with this.  But dont' be angry with me if you speak only Hindi and I won't hire you because you cannot communicate with me, my staff, or my clients.  Don't demand that I provide all communications to you in English/Hindi translation!
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Ed W
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« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2007, 05:18:28 pm »

I'm a third-generation American.  My grandparents routinely spoke Polish around the house, and their church didn't switch over to all English language services until the 1960s.  They and many like them, came here in the early part of the 20th century, set to work and raised families, and sent many of their sons off to fight in the Second World War.  It annoys me that some would imply anyone who speaks a foreign language is somehow un-American.  

It was wrenching for Mary and I to move here to Oklahoma, knowing no one and leaving our extended families far away.  But at least we spoke English.  Think about how much harder it must have been for non-English speaking immigrants to make the journey here and plant new roots.
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Ed

"In a democracy, people get the government they deserve"...Joseph de Maistre
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