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March 29, 2024, 01:20:41 am
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Author Topic: (River tax related) Am I just paranoid, or...  (Read 7115 times)
waterboy
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« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2007, 01:45:53 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by citizen72

quote:
Originally posted by waterboy

quote:
Originally posted by citizen72
What is the big deal with building on the river. There is already buildings on the river. Go to anyone of them go inside and see if you can even see the river. I can tell you no you can't. If you can it is to only minor degree. Dismiss this and what do you have left?  Recreation on the water? I'm not taking my family out on that water. Yek!



How can you say such things? At least three high rise towers with gorgeous views of the sun setting with the river in the foreground. University Club, City Plaza, and Liberty Towers come to mind. Lots of office buildings including the city hall for heaven's sake. Several neighborhoods sitting on hillsides with lovely views, Riverview, Indian Hills, Brady. Hundreds of apartments on both sides of the river. Where are you from anyway?!

As far as water quality you're way off base there too. The rowing crew has been operating on the river for 27 years. You ever actually been on the river? Get out of your car and start actually enjoying your city.



I used to work on the fifteenth floor of an office building. I can tell you after a few weeks or even months that beautiful view is not worth very much. Why? Because you get used to it and in fact you don't really even see it anymore. That is why I discounted the apartment towers. I was talking about the real money makers in this scheme of things, the low rise casual user that sees the view of the river entertaining. As such, as with the Branson Landing, and them saying they are going to build a 500 million dollar complex on the river, leaves me wanting. Only a very small portion of that big old project is going to directly relate to the river in any meaningful way.

   As for the quality of the river I offer this. Not too long ago I got talked into going down on the river bars to do some sand searching for arifacts. More than once we discovered things on the sand that we found to be unresolved sewage items. We didn't stay that long. I do not believe  the river is as clean as it should be if we are going to have recreation on the water.

Even at that are my wife and I going to vote yes for the infrastructure development? We have decided we will because it might prove worthwhile even with the negatives discussed here.





Its true enough that everyone becomes accustomed to their surroundings. I have family in California who never go to or care to see the ocean side.

What part of the river did you walk on the sand bars? That would make a difference, but many times animal scat is mistaken or transients and fishermen just toss their business in upstream. There are always nasty people to deal with in nature.
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TheArtist
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« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2007, 04:18:51 pm »

Yes a lot of it is about perception. How the city is perceived, how visitors perceive it etc. People like to gather and mingle in areas where there is a view, an open space to look out on. The Jenks Riverwalk for example, those famous Steps in Rome, the hillside of the Sacre Coeur. Plus they like being near water, whether its a lake, river, stream, or fountain. The development on the West side of the river in Tulsa will not only have a great space to look out over but a great view of downtown, not only for anyone living there, but for people visiting, dining, shopping or just going for a stroll and people watching. Its psychology and feelings, a sense of place.

 Perhaps its because we dont currently have a really good example of that here that causes people to not really "get it".

I have seen some people look at a pic in a magazine or some design show and like the way a room is. They then go and try to create that look and feel on their own. They often fall short and wonder whats wrong. On the one hand they know what they like when they see it, but they dont know how to get there. As an artist I can point out where they went wrong. They thought they liked the room "or place" because of this and that reason, but they often get it all wrong. They often dont know what it is they are really liking and dont know how to create that attractive sense of place and feeling.  

When you go to other cities and see the places where people tend to gather, there are reasons why people gather and like to go to certain places, or not go, even if the people there cant always tell you why.

Course there are some people that are completely devoid of any sense of anything like that at all, and they could care less lol.
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YoungTulsan
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« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2007, 09:13:49 pm »

Just for the record, on the eve of the vote..  I've posted lots of skepticism and doubt about the plan, but in the end I'm hoping it passes.  Nothing is ever going to get done if we always have an excuse against progress.  There will never be a perfect plan, and rich people will always be involved.  I'm going to put some faith that Kaiser is actually serious when he says the private donors will be making sure all of the money is being spent wisely.  I know if I donated $100 million to a cause, I'd be interested in them actually using it correctly.  Maybe I'm too young to feel personally burned by plans in the past, but I'd rather just give this one a chance than to stagnate for another 5, 10, or infinity years.

If passed, it will probably look like the public money didn't accomplish too much.  The private money will accomplish a lot though.  Of course the private donors want the visible stuff with results that people see directly to be linked to them.  If a small tax gets those private dollars flowing (not just the donations but also the development to come) then it is something that is long overdue.

And maybe by paying a tax to benefit river development will encourage the suburbanites to discover that Tulsa does exist beyond 71st and Memorial.  Midtown is already nice without new development, but there is a whole segment of suburbanites who seem to not know it exists or have a wrong impression of Tulsa outside of sprawl-ville.
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