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Originally posted by tulsa1603
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Originally posted by TheArtist
Sounds like even this project is in danger of not happening. Apparently there is some loud opposition to the use of a tif for this development. Most notably the use of a tif for the baseball stadium and the fountain. I was really hoping for this development to happen. It would be the first example of new urbanism or the "urban village" concept in the Tulsa area. Perhaps in Oklahoma.
I understand wanting this to happen, but it's just one more draw away from Tulsa.... Hear that giant sucking sound? =)
I compleeetely disagree. First off its so close, it IS Tulsa imo. Losing some tax revenue from some people that shop there instead of Tulsa, yes. But Tulsa itself is growing and Jenks and Glenpool... The pie isnt one size, its growing. Plus this is just the kind of development that the Tulsa area needs to help make it more attractive. We will all benefit from that just like the whole area is better because of that Riverwalk Crossing. Gives us all one more place to go, thing to do. Are you suggesting we have too much of that lol? OH no, there is sooo much to do here, sooo many neat places to go and shop, stop! no more! its just too much
] Again, the population is growing, jobs are growing, etc. This will actually help me feel better about being IN TULSA. I will like living here a little better. Plus things like Tulsa Hills pulling from Jenks and areas out that way will help balance out some of what the River District will pull from Tulsa.
Sometimes its just the appearance of things, the availability of something makes an area more attractive. Like friends of mine who have moved to Dallas. I find out they have really moved to areas like Plano or Addison. But its the "Dallas" that is the draw. Something doesnt have to be directly within the borders of Tulsa to make Tulsa a better place to live. How many people visit the beach every day that live by the ocean on the west coast. The beaches would have millions upon millions of people on them every day even if a percentage went. Its that its there, even if its not used that much. What percentage of people really, actually go to the mountains in Denver, even just once a month? Those things are A reason to live there, but many people do not honestly avail themselves of those reasons on a daily, weekly, even monthly basis.
So on top of the fact that Jenks, Tulsa et. al. are already growing. A nice development like this can actually help those places become more attractive and grow even more. This positive can spill over into Tulsa.
As for losing taxes. The area would lose, according to TW, about 6,000 dollars in taxes each year over the life of the tif. The area now generates about 13,000 a year in property taxes, during the life of the tif it will generate about 7,400 dollars a year. After the 18 years the area is estimated to generate about 21.8 million per year. The school district gets about half. So during the life of the tif the Jenks schools will lose about 3,500 per year. Minus whatever would be developed there without any tif if something is developed there otherwise. The developer says he wont build without the tif.
If that property is developed piecemeal over the years will that area 1. Be as attractive and a draw as it would be if this development were to go through? (I say no) 2. Would what is likely to go there piecemeal be as nice, dense and make as much taxes over all as this development? (again I say no, its highly unlikely that any development there would have midrise buildings, apartments surrounding structured parking, etc. if its developed with your typical strip mall and big box stores. The typical development will not be as likely to be as dense, expensive and raise as much taxes over the long run as this development would. A large coherent development like this can afford to do more expensive things because each part works together to create a more desirable, cost effective whole. Plus the tif helps that and even small developers with a tif wont likely do as much over all in that area.) Even as nice as the River Walk is, its nothing in comparison to the scale of this. The river district will raise much more taxes in the end than probably anything else that is likely to go there. Plus its not as though Jenks will not be growing more property taxes in other areas. This can actually help spur even more growth. Its also quite likely that it will take, what, 10 years or more for that area to fill in naturally? Its not as though they are going to be instantly getting the full amount of whatever development begins to go in there if its lots of smaller developments building up over time.
Once this big swath of property is gone in Jenks. There isnt going to be another. They arent going to have another chance at a large development like this. They simply dont have the available land and certainly not land thats this desirably located. This is their best chance to get this type of development if they ever want anything like it.
