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Author Topic: $B-B-BILLION Jenks River Development Lure Driller  (Read 18712 times)
perspicuity85
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« Reply #105 on: November 05, 2007, 12:38:28 pm »

So South Tulsa/Jenks gets the Drillers, and DT gets a Wal-Mart?  Ouch.

I'm still waiting on Rufnex to come out of nowhere with some clutch news concerning a MLS stadium.  If Tulsa's unique urban scene continues to expand, maybe it will be attractive to MLS.  Most of the D-Fest crowd, for example, would definitely attend an MLS game in Tulsa.  If the Drillers move to Jenks, Tulsa needs to look for alternatives.  Sporting venues can be great anchors for urban development.  Think Wrigleyville, Chicago, on a smaller scale.



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spoonbill
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« Reply #106 on: November 05, 2007, 12:54:50 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by FOTD

What's a guarentee???

An extremist developer is one who plops down lots of money for land knowing they will leverage their way into fee development by using the tax system or a dumb banker for their own benefit with the disguise that it's great for the community.

Capitalism?



Oh!  I see.  That's a rather pessimistic view of development

But the process of development usually weeds these people out, unless they get signifigant support by the community.  It is the responsibility of the community to be vigilant of where and how their tax money is spent.

By and large, most developers are ego driven, rather than financially driven.  They want to see what they build become "the great new thing."  There are less than 10 big development players in Tulsa and they all have more than enough money to do whatever they want.  They play the game because they want to win.  They want a RiverWalk Crossing, or a WindRiver, or a Branson Landing.

The money is great, but it's a long way out, and the "Developer's Fee," built into the financing for the development, is easily burned up (and usually is) in expenses long before the development is complete.  These guys play because they like to see their name on stuff.  They are building little empires.  They don't want to build garbage.
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Floyd
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« Reply #107 on: November 14, 2007, 11:15:23 am »

The TIF is approved.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071114_1_A9_hSome68134

Um, that was fast . . . if only Tulsa had some sort of leadership-type position with a bully pulpit and business leverage, elected by the city, with executive responsibility . . . the type of position that might get folks into one room and hammer out a development agreement for downtown Tulsa before the suburbs suck any remaining life away . . . too bad we don't have one of those.

Oh wait, it's called a ****ing MAYOR.  GET ON THE BALL, TAYLOR!
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Conan71
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« Reply #108 on: November 14, 2007, 11:32:24 am »

quote:
Originally posted by FOTD

What's a guarentee???

An extremist developer is one who plops down lots of money for land knowing they will leverage their way into fee development by using the tax system or a dumb banker for their own benefit with the disguise that it's great for the community.

Capitalism?



Then file bankruptcy on that bank, I dunno, maybe BOK?
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
FOTD
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« Reply #109 on: November 14, 2007, 12:16:58 pm »

The music man....Lynn Mitchell.

Nordstrom and Crate and Barrel. Right.

Everyone's looking for income in all the wrong places. What happened to good ole efficient government? What happened to free enterprise without the government?

The project has Jinx all over it....





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Conan71
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« Reply #110 on: November 14, 2007, 12:24:23 pm »

Nordstrom, Crate & Barrel?  

What ever happened to small, local or regional chains like OTASCO?  Government push them out or were they sloppy business managers and the times passed them by?
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
swake
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« Reply #111 on: November 14, 2007, 12:38:06 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Nordstrom, Crate & Barrel?  

What ever happened to small, local or regional chains like OTASCO?  Government push them out or were they sloppy business managers and the times passed them by?



Wal-Mart

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sgrizzle
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Inconceivable!


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« Reply #112 on: November 14, 2007, 12:48:43 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Floyd

The TIF is approved.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071114_1_A9_hSome68134

Um, that was fast . . . if only Tulsa had some sort of leadership-type position with a bully pulpit and business leverage, elected by the city, with executive responsibility . . . the type of position that might get folks into one room and hammer out a development agreement for downtown Tulsa before the suburbs suck any remaining life away . . . too bad we don't have one of those.

Oh wait, it's called a ****ing MAYOR.  GET ON THE BALL, TAYLOR!



I think you might have it a bit skewed. The residents and school district in Jenks largely objected to the TIFF. So are we wanting Taylor to piss MORE people off in the sake of progress?
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FOTD
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« Reply #113 on: November 14, 2007, 01:20:18 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Nordstrom, Crate & Barrel?  

What ever happened to small, local or regional chains like OTASCO?  Government push them out or were they sloppy business managers and the times passed them by?



The chain was purchased by Ohio junk bond masters in the early 60's who placed the company into their Rapid American Corp. which proceeded to drain the company for years for the benefit of their other retail divisions including McCrory and to maintain their high New York lifestyles.

High interest rates in the 70's threw this highly leveraged business into desperation in the early 80's. Desperate employees wanting to save their hides took it private.

Lawyers, lacking good business judgment, running the show chose to roll up the chain into a new entity that fizzled very fast by 85. Rather than let the New York owners sell it, greedy leaders stepped in to bilk ex employees, current employees and banks. I think many of the master minds now work for the government. Figures.

BTW, Otasco was for a while Oklahoma's largest employer. Also, first company in this nation to create a trust for their employees to protect their pensions. A very successful company up until they were sold in the early 60's to bank manipulators (shysters).

One must wonder what ever happened to TG and Y and others like Oklahoma Tire And Supply Co..... Guess they got discounted. Times have past by the honest man.

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~Bertrand Russell
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swake
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« Reply #114 on: November 14, 2007, 01:24:51 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by FOTD


One must wonder what ever happened to TG and Y and others like Oklahoma Tire And Supply Co..... Guess they got discounted. Times have past by the honest man.



Um,

OTASCO was the Oklahoma Tire and Supply CO.

OTASCO was the abbreviation.
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Conan71
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« Reply #115 on: November 14, 2007, 02:15:21 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by swake

quote:
Originally posted by FOTD


One must wonder what ever happened to TG and Y and others like Oklahoma Tire And Supply Co..... Guess they got discounted. Times have past by the honest man.



Um,

OTASCO was the Oklahoma Tire and Supply CO.

OTASCO was the abbreviation.




I think he's well aware of that...
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Conan71
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« Reply #116 on: November 14, 2007, 02:20:20 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by FOTD

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Nordstrom, Crate & Barrel?  

What ever happened to small, local or regional chains like OTASCO?  Government push them out or were they sloppy business managers and the times passed them by?



The chain was purchased by Ohio junk bond masters in the early 60's who placed the company into their Rapid American Corp. which proceeded to drain the company for years for the benefit of their other retail divisions including McCrory and to maintain their high New York lifestyles.

High interest rates in the 70's threw this highly leveraged business into desperation in the early 80's. Desperate employees wanting to save their hides took it private.

Lawyers, lacking good business judgment, running the show chose to roll up the chain into a new entity that fizzled very fast by 85. Rather than let the New York owners sell it, greedy leaders stepped in to bilk ex employees, current employees and banks. I think many of the master minds now work for the government. Figures.

BTW, Otasco was for a while Oklahoma's largest employer. Also, first company in this nation to create a trust for their employees to protect their pensions. A very successful company up until they were sold in the early 60's to bank manipulators (shysters).

One must wonder what ever happened to TG and Y and others like Oklahoma Tire And Supply Co..... Guess they got discounted. Times have past by the honest man.





Okay, seems like you know a little about this.  So why did the original owners decide to sell the company to an out-of-state conglomerate if they were concerned enough about the future of their employees to protect their pensions?  If it's a going business, profitable, and big enough where there must have been a good management structure, why sell?  It couldn't have been too big a PITA for the owners to keep it, just watch the checks roll in and go play golf at So. Hills or Meadowbrook.
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brunoflipper
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« Reply #117 on: November 14, 2007, 02:33:45 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by FOTD

The music man....Lynn Mitchell.

Nordstrom and Crate and Barrel. Right.

Everyone's looking for income in all the wrong places. What happened to good ole efficient government? What happened to free enterprise without the government?

The project has Jinx all over it....







no ****... nordstrom? no ****ing way. he is FOS. crate and barrel? i seriously doubt it. but that, i might believe.
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Floyd
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« Reply #118 on: November 14, 2007, 02:38:33 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:
Originally posted by Floyd

The TIF is approved.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071114_1_A9_hSome68134

Um, that was fast . . . if only Tulsa had some sort of leadership-type position with a bully pulpit and business leverage, elected by the city, with executive responsibility . . . the type of position that might get folks into one room and hammer out a development agreement for downtown Tulsa before the suburbs suck any remaining life away . . . too bad we don't have one of those.

Oh wait, it's called a ****ing MAYOR.  GET ON THE BALL, TAYLOR!



I think you might have it a bit skewed. The residents and school district in Jenks largely objected to the TIFF. So are we wanting Taylor to piss MORE people off in the sake of progress?




Whether people in Jenks are objecting or not, their TIF is moving forward, which gets them closer to being able to finance the theft of the Drillers.  We need Taylor or her economic development team to move more quickly in developing an alternative plan for a downtown stadium.  Lamson is going to move his team.  The only question is where, and if he only has one option, that question is answered, no?  I'm pleading for our city's leadership to lead, before the writing is on the wall.
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swake
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« Reply #119 on: November 14, 2007, 03:18:26 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

quote:
Originally posted by FOTD

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Nordstrom, Crate & Barrel?  

What ever happened to small, local or regional chains like OTASCO?  Government push them out or were they sloppy business managers and the times passed them by?



The chain was purchased by Ohio junk bond masters in the early 60's who placed the company into their Rapid American Corp. which proceeded to drain the company for years for the benefit of their other retail divisions including McCrory and to maintain their high New York lifestyles.

High interest rates in the 70's threw this highly leveraged business into desperation in the early 80's. Desperate employees wanting to save their hides took it private.

Lawyers, lacking good business judgment, running the show chose to roll up the chain into a new entity that fizzled very fast by 85. Rather than let the New York owners sell it, greedy leaders stepped in to bilk ex employees, current employees and banks. I think many of the master minds now work for the government. Figures.

BTW, Otasco was for a while Oklahoma's largest employer. Also, first company in this nation to create a trust for their employees to protect their pensions. A very successful company up until they were sold in the early 60's to bank manipulators (shysters).

One must wonder what ever happened to TG and Y and others like Oklahoma Tire And Supply Co..... Guess they got discounted. Times have past by the honest man.





Okay, seems like you know a little about this.  So why did the original owners decide to sell the company to an out-of-state conglomerate if they were concerned enough about the future of their employees to protect their pensions?  If it's a going business, profitable, and big enough where there must have been a good management structure, why sell?  It couldn't have been too big a PITA for the owners to keep it, just watch the checks roll in and go play golf at So. Hills or Meadowbrook.




Well, I guess FOTD doesn’t like Jerry Goodman (CEO) very much. From what I know he did his best to save the company but it went under as Wal-Mart started to really get big in the mid 80s. I knew his daughter pretty well.
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