14 year old girl driver charged with felony

[RecycleMichael]

I read where the 14 year old girl who was joy-riding and lost control of the car that killed a boy mowing his yard has been charged.

I think that is appropriate, but it questions why the District Attorney did not charge the football player shooting paintballs who caused a wreck that killed a teammate.

I don't have all the details, but weren't they both joy-driving and caused a death?

Is this a double standard?

[AngieB]

And we shouldn't dare to think the fact that the girl is African American and the football player is white had anything to do with it.

Just sayin'.

[tshane250]

Apparently, other people have asked the same question.  Tulsa County District Attorney Tim Harris addressed the question when interviewed by KOTV.

KOTV Article

[RecycleMichael]

I did not realize that the two were different race.

I thought the statements by Tim Harris were sure weird...Here they are from the KOTV story...

Harris says there are five reasons why Melissa Warren is in the Tulsa County jail and the Jenks students are at home. Harris says the facts of the case warranted different charges. He says the accident in east Tulsa happened in a residential neighborhood, while the Jenks wreck happened on a highway. "I think that people have an expectation of safety in a residential neighborhood that they don't have on a highway."

Second, in east Tulsa, Saenz was a mowing his lawn on his own property. Harris says the Bennet voluntarily put himself in that position by getting into the car.

Three, Harris believes Saenz was an innocent victim, just mowing his lawn. Harris says in Bennet's case, he was not wearing a seatbelt, which could have saved his life.

Fourth, Harris says the car that killed Saenz was racing in a neighborhood, while the SUV that Bennet was riding in lost control.

And finally. “Fifth, the one in the residential neighborhood is estimated at going somewhere between 30 and 45 miles over the posted speed limit in a residential neighborhood. The other is estimated somewhere between 15 and 25 miles over on a highway. When you take those and look at those factors, that's why one is more egregious, that's why one gets charged with second degree murder and the other gets charged with negligent homicide."


Expectation of safety?

Because he was mowing his own yard and the other guy voluntarily got into the car?

If your victim doesn't wear a seatbelt, then the charges are different?

Killing someone on a highway is different than killing someone in a neighborhood?

One was speeding only a lot and the other was speeding a whole bunch more?

I am really confused now.

[RecycleMichael]

I completely agree Bill. I hope they are real firm with her and the aunt who gave her the keys.

Does the fact that the girl was fourteen and the boy was old enough to drive matter in the charges to you?

[Phireman]

I feel this is appropriate.  Bottome line in my opinion, if the individual is old enough to know right from wrong they should be treated accordingly.

[TheArtist]

I dont know the specifics of these cases dont even know what it means for the girl to be tried as an adult.  

  I remember being a kid, and 15 is still being a kid to me, and playing with other kids doing stupid things.  We would get yelled at for running some place where we shouldnt, for throwing something in the house etc.  Be careful you could hurt someone or put someones eye out!  We would go exploring where we shouldnt, and make makeshift bike ramps that were basically death traps for instance lol. There were so many times that if something had been just a bit different one of us could have been seriously injured, even killed. If that object had been just an inch to the left he could have lost an eye, fallen off that could have broken his neck, drowned etc.  

What if that 15yo girl had run into a light pole?  Would she be have been any different a person than the girl who ran over and killed that little boy?  If she had just managed to swerve to one side or the other and miss that boy would she be tried as an adult and in jail facing the same consequences for the rest of her life?  She would be no more or less a danger to society or to herself either way. If she had sex with a 19yo would she be considered an adult or the child who was taken advantage of?  Why is it that when kids that age get into fights, at school, football games etc.  they aren't treated as adults?  Would the difference of few feet to the left or right determine whether she is a child or an adult?  She, the person on trial, would still be the same person would she not?  Except for the fact that from now on she has to live with the horrible knowlege that she killed someone.


  When I think back I remember hearing many stories of young kids or teenagers who snuck into a car and drove around.  By sheer luck they didn't kill or injur someone.  But what they did was equally wrong on their part as what that girl did. (although I dont know her, she could be a very bad evil little girl who was being spiteful and mean, I dont know)  I dont think she intended to kill someone any more than any of those other kids.  

I dont know the answers, my head swims with conflicting thoughts, possibilities and feelings.  But somehow, deep down, something doesn't feel right with the way we often choose to discipline, punish, "bring justice to", one another.

[waterboy]

Aren't you confusing intent with result? Whether she is a good little girl who made a bad decision or an evil joy riding thief, the result is the same. The severity of charges and sentencing may be influenced by intent but surely it was murder whether the result of stupid decisions, incompetence or drunkeness.  Is she a child by our parental standards, yes. Legally? Probably not. Hard to watch a young girls fate change in an instant. Just as hard to accept that a responsible young boy is senselessly murdered.

[BASleuth]

I did not support, nor did I vote for Tim Harris. The majority of those citizens who voted in that election returned Tim Harris into office for four more years.  I continue to read Monday morning quarterbacks who lack direct knowledge of events and/or factors considered, discussing what should have been done.  Well, sorry unless I possess direct knowledge of the events and factors considered, I believe we should support the actions of the duly elected official.

Unless some of the talking heads have direct evidence of wrongful and/or illegal conduct pertaining to an elected official, I will continue to give him/her the presumption of having performed the duties as required by law.

I might not agree with the decision, but he was elected to make those decisions NOT me. Come election time I will again exercise my right to vote for a candidate.

This is one of those presumptions of law, that officials in government have preformed their duties properly, until EVIDENCE is introduced to counter that presumption.  Note the term "EVIDENCE" not surmise, rumor or "what I would have done".

[TheArtist]

^  I dont know, perhaps both should be considered. Whats the intent and result of placing the girl in jail and charging her as an adult with second degree murder?

Both deaths were unintentional I am sure.  They both happened as a result of doing something wrong.  Sometimes you do something wrong and it doesnt result in so much harm, hopefully you leaarn, grow and move on.  But if something bad does happen or you get caught.... then what?  What are the intents and results of our actions towards these people?

Here I am going to stir up some major contriversy I am sure.

Say a boy got in a car and killed someone close to me that I love, perhaps my little sister.  

What I often see in many cases is that the family of the person who was killed in an accident, or because of negligence, want justice for their family member. They often appear to be extremely angry and to even want revenge.


I see two completely different ways to deal with such a situation and two completely different worlds resulting.

 
1.  The boy is tried, put in prison, perhaps for life.  The refrain you often hear is... Why should this person live free or even get to live when my family member is dead?  They demand it because it is their right.

2.  The boy is tried, but instead of going to prison the boy is rehabilitated (this is assuming what he did was because he was a a bad kid).  I would even say that if he had killed my sister, that he then loses his rights to choose what he does but that I now have the right to make him do and live as I say. I could even imagine making that person live in my home, if he were older I would make him go to work with me, learn responsible behavior etc.  He could choose that or prison, up to him.  But I would want to do everything possible to make sure that this person became as good, responsible, and productive a citizen as he could be. I would demand it, it should be my right.

In one world, my sister is dead and the boy is in prison.  Not being rehabilitated, using tax dollars as a burden to society for who knows how long.  And if or when he gets out, what has he learned? What good has it done?

In the other world, my sister is dead and the boy hopefully becomes a better person who does contribute to society.  Perhaps has a family, grows and prospers.  I would see that as the best possible tribute to my dead sister.

So when I look at these two incedents,  I wonder about what we are doing, what the consequences of our actions are going to be.  Will the world be a better place and will the lives of those kids be made better?

If someone killed me.  Hopefully I would be looking down from Heaven lol and praying dearly that the life of the person who killed me would be turned around and that they would be able to become a blessing and not a burden to themselves and society.

[yayaya]

three things
I do agree with BA sleuth that yes we have to respect who was elected.
Having said that, Harris is a disgrace.
Re the last...probably everyone on this board has done something that might have killed someone.  Does anyone remember when Mason High School kids used to call in bomb threats so they could get out of class and one girl got to be the bomb threat queen? The QUEEN rode around the parking lot in a parade.
Yes, kids should be punished.  But why, oh why, take away any chance to rehabilitate.  Personally, I think the aunt that handed over the keys is the one that should pay
OOPS-4th thing
Has the world changed so much, or is all the restrictions that we are putting on people that are causing them to come out sideways.

[MichaelC]

Harris sure knows how to put the pressure on.  Now I have to avoid driving like a madman, as long as I'm on a residential street.

Everyone, grab your paintball gun and meet me on the BA.  It's on now.

[MichaelC]

I really don't like the idea that this 14 year old girl is being charged with Second Degree Murder.  It seems to me, that had she been 16 and had a license, it would likely have been Negligent Homocide, which is supposedly what the Jenks kid got.


From OSCN

quote:Homicide is murder in the second degree in the following cases:

1. When perpetrated by an act imminently dangerous to another person and evincing a depraved mind, regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual; or

2. When perpetrated by a person engaged in the commission of any felony other than the unlawful acts set out in Section 1, subsection B, of this act.

From OSCN

quote:Negligent homicide

"(a) When the death of any person ensues within one year as a proximate result of injury received by the driving of any vehicle in reckless disregard of the safety of others, the person so operating such vehicle shall be guilty of negligent homicide.

"(b) Any person convicted of negligent homicide shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year or by fine of not less than One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) nor more than One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00), or by both such fine and imprisonment.

"(c) The Commissioner of Public Safety shall revoke the license or permit to drive and any nonresident operating privilege of any person convicted of negligent homicide. Laws 1961, p. 387, § 11-903."

Did KOTV pull their story?  I can't seem to locate it.