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December 04, 2022, 08:10:11 pm
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Author Topic: PAC Parking Lot Development  (Read 11230 times)
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« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2021, 04:28:35 pm »

Flaherty & Collins bought the land

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/pac-trust-approves-sale-of-adjacent-parking-lot-for-mixed-use-project/article_ee9212b0-18bf-11ec-9c48-cbe47487af9a.html
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swake
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« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2021, 04:34:10 pm »


That's really good news.
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Tulsan
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« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2021, 05:15:41 pm »

I was told by an attorney for the PAC Trust back in 2018, after Reasorís had dropped out, that they were requiring a grocery agreement to be in place before allowing the deal to proceed. She said finding a new operator was proving to be one of the multiple hurdles they had no ready solution for. 

Seems like they finally got it all figured out. Excited to hear what they end up doing.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 05:24:08 pm by Tulsan » Logged
ComeOnBenjals
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« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2021, 05:38:25 pm »

Let's go!! This is big news... fingers crossed for a grocery store!
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Tulsan
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« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2021, 08:01:33 pm »


The updated story has some great info.

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The proposed multi-use site, dubbed the Annex, would include a 20,000-square-foot grocery store, 10,000 square feet of additional retail space, a 240-unit apartment building and a boutique hotel. The project would also include a parking garage with approximately 450 spaces, which could be utilized by visitors both to the Tulsa PAC and City Hall.

Flaherty & Collins Properties' proposal is essentially the same one it first presented in 2017 to the Tulsa PAC Trust. The principal difference is the addition of the 100-room hotel, which will be operated by Origin Hotel. It will be the first Origin Hotel in Oklahoma.

Regarding the hotel - Origin is boutique chain under the Wyndham badge, with just a few locations - Raleigh, Lexington, a couple of Colorado spots, and coming soon in Austin.  Looks like a pretty nifty concept. https://www.originhotel.com/

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Ryan Cronk, a partner with Flaherty & Collins, said that a company has agreed to have one of its grocery stores be part of the project, but the company wishes to make its participation officially known at a later date.

ďI can say that it is an established business, with about 80 stores,Ē Cronk said.

My bet is that the unnamed grocery is Homeland returning to the Tulsa market - http://hacretail.com/.  Nice way to make a splash on reentry.  Admittedly, Whole Foods or another premium grocer might be more sexy, but Homeland will serve the downtown market well.



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« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2021, 08:39:32 pm »

Homeland is to OKC what Reasors is to Tulsa.  The older stores are mediocre and the newer ones are pretty nice.  20k sq ft is a decent size but about half the size of a typical full service grocery store.  Hopefully it has a cafe and large prepared food section; it should do very well during lunch hour.

Excited to see some updated renderings.  I personally like this F&C project in Columbus and think something like it would be awesome here: https://flco.com/news-articles/flaherty-collins-properties-chosen-as-part-of-development-team-to-transform-scioto-peninsula-in-columbus-oh/



The article says they are supposed to start construction in late 2022, likely delivering in mid 2024.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 08:45:20 pm by SXSW » Logged

 
shavethewhales
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« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2021, 08:24:25 am »

Great to see this finally moving forward, but the renderings in the TW article are definitely a little lackluster. The apartments/condo tower was stripped out and turned into an ugly non-descript 6 story thing. The grocery looks pretty uninspiring too. I'm glad we get the store and even more housing and infil development, but this is a prime lot and I was hoping for something truly grand. I knew I was getting my hopes up for the tower though, that was too good to be true. I wonder how long it will be until we see an actual addition to Tulsa's skyline.
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ComeOnBenjals
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« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2021, 08:35:33 am »

Yeah the updated drawings are very meh. Was hoping for a tower, still a vast improvement from the lot.
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DowntownDan
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« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2021, 09:01:25 am »

I don't really care about height. One of my favorite cities to walk is Washington, D.C., where all of the buildings are limited to I think 12 or 15 stories. Tulsa doesn't need any more tall buildings, we need to infill parking lots with small and mid-scale development. This seems to fit the bill. I do agree, however, that the renderings look fairly plain, pretty much another version of The Edge and The View. Not horrible, but just kind of boring. And Homeland was my thought too based on the descriptions. The other places I had in mind (Sprouts maybe?) have more locations than the description. A quick google shows that Homeland as of 2019 had 79 locations (not all Homeland branded), so that has to be it, and I'm okay with it if it is in line with the nicer ones in OKC.
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« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2021, 09:14:00 am »

I don't really care about height. One of my favorite cities to walk is Washington, D.C., where all of the buildings are limited to I think 12 or 15 stories. Tulsa doesn't need any more tall buildings, we need to infill parking lots with small and mid-scale development. This seems to fit the bill. I do agree, however, that the renderings look fairly plain, pretty much another version of The Edge and The View. Not horrible, but just kind of boring. And Homeland was my thought too based on the descriptions. The other places I had in mind (Sprouts maybe?) have more locations than the description. A quick google shows that Homeland as of 2019 had 79 locations (not all Homeland branded), so that has to be it, and I'm okay with it if it is in line with the nicer ones in OKC.

Sprouts had been looking around the 15th & Peoria area for a while but I don't think could ever find a site.

Homeland does seem to fit everything they are saying. The Homeland that just opened in NE OKC is about 30,000 sq. ft. so similar size. It's very nice and would be exactly what downtown needs.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/08/31/oklahoma-city-homeland-grocery-store-near-me-open-food-desert/5577563001/

https://okcfox.com/news/local/homeland-at-ne-okc-grand-opening
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« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2021, 09:37:24 am »



Quote
An Architect's rendering looking west from the corner of Detroit Avenue and Third Street shows the Annex, a multi use project by Flaherty and Collins Properties that will occupy the parking lot just east of the Tulsa Performing Arts Center downtown. The Tulsa PAC trust, which has owned the lot since 1977, voted to sell the property to Flaherty and Collins for $5.5 million.
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« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2021, 10:51:02 am »

Interested to see how they parking this.  The way the site slopes you could have an entire parking level partially underground on the south side and at-grade with 2nd St on the north side.  In that case you could take an escalator/elevator/stairs from the parking into the grocery store above that fronts 3rd St.  That is how it is done at the downtown Whole Foods in both Austin and Denver.

3rd St will have the grocery store frontage that wraps around the Detroit side along with the hotel entrance at 3rd & Cincinnati.  Perfect spot for people coming for shows at the PAC.  Interested to see what the 2nd St frontage looks like hopefully there is a decent amount of retail space to continue activity with the new OTASCO development/The Brook across the street and the lot next to it ripe for future redevelopment.

This combined with Santa Fe Square will make the whole area feel livelier. 
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Jake
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« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2021, 12:25:17 pm »

I know the ďitís better than whatís there nowĒ mindset is prevalent and Iím happy for development that takes surface parking away, but going from a 26 story tower to an nondescript apartment building is heartbreaking and hilarious.

I understand tall buildings donít necessarily create lively, liveable cities and all that jazz. Its just jarring to see the before and after renderings.
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2021, 01:27:32 pm »

I know the ďitís better than whatís there nowĒ mindset is prevalent and Iím happy for development that takes surface parking away, but going from a 26 story tower to an nondescript apartment building is heartbreaking and hilarious.

I understand tall buildings donít necessarily create lively, liveable cities and all that jazz. Its just jarring to see the before and after renderings.

It is neither hilarious or heartbreaking and far far from 'it's better than what's there now'.

This wasn't originally proposed as a high-rise and was never actually confirmed by the developer even after some of those new renderings began floating around. This still looks almost entirely like the original plan but with a hotel and slightly smaller grocer. The high-rise renderings was a function of the size of space Reasor's wanted, they would have needed the entire 3rd street frontage and the developer also wanted a hotel as part of the project. The hotel wasn't part of the orginal proposal and once it was added it did change the design to what you are thinking was the original proposal showing the high-rise. At that point, it made sense to shrink the footprint of the residential portion (going from 10-12 stories to 20+) and put the hotel on the other corner along 2nd while giving Reasor's the entire southern half of the block along 3rd. The original proposal and the only one ever actually discussed by the developer's really publicly was the the 10-12 story residential tower with the grocer that looks nearly identical to what the new rendering shows in the World.

Given the grocer going in is about 10-15,000 sq ft smaller than Reasor's would have been, they can now fit the hotel on the other portion of the southern part of the lot along 3rd. Leaving the entire northern part of the lot along 2nd for the residential tower. There is zero reason to make the tower 20+ storey now that they can use the entire 2nd street frontage for residential.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 01:31:40 pm by LandArchPoke » Logged
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« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2021, 01:45:34 pm »

It is neither hilarious or heartbreaking and far far from 'it's better than what's there now'.

This wasn't originally proposed as a high-rise and was never actually confirmed by the developer even after some of those new renderings began floating around. This still looks almost entirely like the original plan but with a hotel and slightly smaller grocer. The high-rise renderings was a function of the size of space Reasor's wanted, they would have needed the entire 3rd street frontage and the developer also wanted a hotel as part of the project. The hotel wasn't part of the orginal proposal and once it was added it did change the design to what you are thinking was the original proposal showing the high-rise. At that point, it made sense to shrink the footprint of the residential portion (going from 10-12 stories to 20+) and put the hotel on the other corner along 2nd while giving Reasor's the entire southern half of the block along 3rd. The original proposal and the only one ever actually discussed by the developer's really publicly was the the 10-12 story residential tower with the grocer that looks nearly identical to what the new rendering shows in the World.

Given the grocer going in is about 10-15,000 sq ft smaller than Reasor's would have been, they can now fit the hotel on the other portion of the southern part of the lot along 3rd. Leaving the entire northern part of the lot along 2nd for the residential tower. There is zero reason to make the tower 20+ storey now that they can use the entire 2nd street frontage for residential.

I like the smaller grocery footprint better and think it will be more viable than a large store.  With the rise of grocery delivery there just isn't a need for as much space, and what is there should be good for downtown residents and office workers (large prepared foods section, deli/seafood counter, small bakery, coffee shop).

I'm interested in what happens to the site across from the TPAC on 3rd.  I know this has been floated as a potential expansion space for the theater and possibly a hotel.  An AC Hotel or equivalent would do well at the corner of 3rd & Boston.
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