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October 21, 2020, 06:50:32 am
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« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2020, 08:15:11 pm »

Google has a local presence.  In Pryor at Mid-America.  Has been there for years.

It would be awesome to have a Google office in this new building.  Maybe something that focuses on cyber security or drone tech that ties into the programs at TU and OSU.

I wouldnít put in past GKFF to be involved somehow.  They have invested millions in the Arts District and this will be a showcase project, along with their own building over on Boulder.  Some type of coworking space like 36 Degrees North would probably do well especially for remote workers needing a temporary office space.  
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« Reply #61 on: October 07, 2020, 10:53:09 pm »


Telex was the ultimate "me too".  They did not innovate, they copied.  As did the others you mentioned - WorldCom, WilTel, etc..  They took the innovators idea and said, "me too".  Telex was NEVER on a par with IBM, not even close!  Regardless of the issues IBM has had over the decades, they were always ahead of Telex across the board.  Roger Wheeler alive would have made no difference.  By that point they were already in DeLorean mode - in financial trouble and flailing wildly.  And yeah, there was even a 'cocaine mode' of operation there for a while.

Google has a local presence.  In Pryor at Mid-America.  Has been there for years.


I don't doubt the notion that IBM was far better, but it always seemed that when he was killed it seemed to make things unravel faster. No doubt that it very likely would not have changed the outcome.. but you do see some companies find a way out from unhealthy cultures and founders. AMD was long thought for dead until Lisa Su took over and is now eating IBM's lunch in the chip market. There's plenty of Chesapeake's, WorldCom, Telex, etc. versions of it too that are alliterated due to leaderships poor choices. If one of these companies in Tulsa managed to hold on and be more viable long term it could have changed the course of Tulsa being considered a 'tech' city in this latest tech growth spurt. We've had some pretty epic collapses from all business groups (SemGroup, Semson, etc.) in corporate history here. Even the one's that halfway survived like Wiltel were acquired/sold off.

Yes, Google has had a presence here for a while, which is why I've mentioned them a few times since they are familiar with this area already. I feel like of any of the biggeest San Fran Bay Area HQ'ed firms they might be the easiest to recruit to open a regional office and would be close to one of their largest data centers. I've always been really shocked that we haven't seen more data centers built in Oklahoma too, not sure why that is. They tend to cluster near each other and Google is kind of on their own here. BUT, data centers do not employee many people so outside of property tax collections they don't have much of an economic impact compared to if they had a corporate regional office of 100-500 employees with $100k salaries.

It would be awesome to have a Google office in this new building.  Maybe something that focuses on cyber security or drone tech that ties into the programs at TU and OSU.

I wouldnít put in past GKFF to be involved somehow.  They have invested millions in the Arts District and this will be a showcase project, along with their own building over on Boulder.  Some type of coworking space like 36 Degrees North would probably do well especially for remote workers needing a temporary office space.  

Drone tech is something that is yet another thing we seem to fail to capture on, OSU has one of the best undergrad drone programs in the nation. Why we don't have advance degrees at OSU Tulsa for this with research partnerships with Amazon, CVS, etc. which are all exploring aerial delivery tech is beyond me... let alone why we aren't seeking partnership with military partners like Lockheed, etc. that are in the drone business. I know I've ranted about advanced degrees before but there are a ton of programs at OSU that are very well known nationally but the school gets docked in rankings for lack of advanced degree options and research. Why our politicians can't see the value of pumping money into research at OSU/OU is beyond me when they can plainly see what the payoff is in Texas for the amount of money that comes in UT, A&M, etc. from oil taxes and better funding. Drone tech seems like low hanging fruit to go after with OSU have established and a highly respected program and lots of vacant land on the OSU Tulsa campus for a few office buildings for research offices and drone/aerial divisions of these big companies.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 11:19:37 pm by LandArchPoke » Logged
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« Reply #62 on: October 07, 2020, 11:05:03 pm »

There is definitely something structural here that KC, OKC, Dallas, NW Arkansas don't have.  I don't know if its that Tulsa is not actually welcoming --- it's a who you are and who you know place.  Don't know, but its not good. OKC had to get real --- that place had largely devolved into a sewer and the people there acknowledged it and said enough.  That's not who we're going to be.  Tulsa has never been anywhere near there - but do we admit stuff? Seems we like to think we are something and live in some bubble of unreality.  Winning Chamber awards, etc. must mean we're there - Idk.  There's something lacking.  That 31st & Peoria mixed-use thing is deader than a door nail.  We can't do simple things.  And we live in the past too much, maybe.  Things are controlled by 2nd, 3rd & 4th generations of the city's founders - a caretaker class, not a creative dynamo class.  This could all be misguided blather.  Gathering Place is incredible --- but everyone thought it was a game changer.  Has it been that, so far --- COVID issues excluded?  Other cities have parks --- maybe not as nice, but they exist and many are very impressive.  OKC's new park gets the job done.  Anyway...  

A lot of discussions I've had with people under 40 and didn't grow up here - it usually goes into everyone knows you can't be mayor of Tulsa unless your family has a park named after you. One of Bynum's big themes when he first ran was his family was one of Tulsa's first, blah blah. I like Bynum for the most part and he's leaps and bounds better than Bartlett and some of the others. Bartlett did a lot of damage in business stagnation with his political antics that really stalled being able to do simple things through the council. When we could barely get a budget past that doesn't send a message to the outside world we're open for business. Thankfully he's gone.

Unfortunately Tulsa has political issues given the amount of old money here with very deep pockets that is one of the cogs on the wheel of the big issues on being able to recruit firms with high wages and high growth. Seems like every mayor of Tulsa has felt like they would be Inhoffe's successor (outside of Taylor obviously) and when you have a mayor who is more concerned about political reputation than actually getting things done you get what we have here.

TYPro's and others have been great at trying to break through this old money structure in our city government. I've been more hopeful about this with Bynum up until recently, he seems to still be more concerned about playing politics when it's not needed because he has an eye on that senate seat even though he likes to claim he doesn't publicly. It's pretty obvious when half his closest staff was from Inhoffe's office and campaign...

I think down the road with removing political parties from the city government races where you aren't running as Dems or Repubs will be beneficial. They do seem to be trying to change things structurally that will be better for making the city function better in the future. The council seemed to have an awakening during Bartlett that the city was broken and something needed to be done. Turning a ship around takes a while though, just hope it keeps going and we don't revert backwards.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 11:24:38 pm by LandArchPoke » Logged
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« Reply #63 on: October 08, 2020, 09:11:10 am »



Drone tech is something that is yet another thing we seem to fail to capture on, OSU has one of the best undergrad drone programs in the nation. Why we don't have advance degrees at OSU Tulsa for this with research partnerships with Amazon, CVS, etc. which are all exploring aerial delivery tech is beyond me... let alone why we aren't seeking partnership with military partners like Lockheed, etc. that are in the drone business. I know I've ranted about advanced degrees before but there are a ton of programs at OSU that are very well known nationally but the school gets docked in rankings for lack of advanced degree options and research. Why our politicians can't see the value of pumping money into research at OSU/OU is beyond me when they can plainly see what the payoff is in Texas for the amount of money that comes in UT, A&M, etc. from oil taxes and better funding. Drone tech seems like low hanging fruit to go after with OSU have established and a highly respected program and lots of vacant land on the OSU Tulsa campus for a few office buildings for research offices and drone/aerial divisions of these big companies.

I like the thought process but unfortunately this one is a bit behind the curve.  This program already exists under the Aero/Mechanical Engineering degree program in Stillwater.  The Grant dollars are there along with the research/development lab facilities and the flying/proving ground.  If you want to see what they are doing go for the day when they have their spring fly-off (aka Speedfest).  

If you're interested this was my daughter's team/capstone project https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_sXPi8uWSY which won the competition, scored on presentation, time around a measured course, max speed, payload accuracy, landing distance, and radar signature.  As I recall they designed/constructed and tested 5 prototypes with the surviving ones being further developed and tested by graduate students under a military grant program.

Its a truly excellent undergrad program with many going on for masters work, good luck trying to dislodge it.  



 
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 09:31:44 am by Vision 2025 » Logged

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« Reply #64 on: October 08, 2020, 10:55:15 am »

I like the thought process but unfortunately this one is a bit behind the curve.  This program already exists under the Aero/Mechanical Engineering degree program in Stillwater.  The Grant dollars are there along with the research/development lab facilities and the flying/proving ground.  If you want to see what they are doing go for the day when they have their spring fly-off (aka Speedfest).  

If you're interested this was my daughter's team/capstone project https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_sXPi8uWSY which won the competition, scored on presentation, time around a measured course, max speed, payload accuracy, landing distance, and radar signature.  As I recall they designed/constructed and tested 5 prototypes with the surviving ones being further developed and tested by graduate students under a military grant program.

Its a truly excellent undergrad program with many going on for masters work, good luck trying to dislodge it.  



 

Oh, I'm not trying to say we should move the program at all (especially undergrad programs). I do feel like this is how leadership in Stillwater seems to think/be afraid of is that a bigger Tulsa campus will somehow eat away at Stillwater. Being an OSU alumni I can tell you even if my degree had been offered in Tulsa I would have still went to Stillwater for undergrad. I however could not do my masters at OSU because they have a very limited amount of advanced degrees in the field I work and was interested in at that time. I would not have wanted to stay in Stillwater past undergrad either, I wanted to get a masters degree and work at the same time and that usually not an option in small college towns. So I went to a different school in a major costal city where I could do both. If OSU had a masters program in Tulsa, I would have just stayed at OSU and moved back to Tulsa.

Just from my personal experience and many of my friends, this was the reality we faced. I could be wrong, but I think that aero mechanical program at OSU does not have a masters or PHD option right? I was thinking it was only undergrad at OSU. Even if not, I do feel that expanding the advanced degrees in this field and having both in Stillwater and Tulsa would only be a benefit to OSU. I can tell you this is a problem for OSU across the board on other programs of having limited advanced degree options and is one of the things that hurts OSU the most in national rankings because the overall advanced research/degrees at OSU are limited compared to other major universities including OU. It would be prudent for OSU to grow these types of things in Tulsa or even in OKC where they can recruit people who need or want to work while getting advanced degrees. I'm thrilled they are expanding the medical programs here because if OSU Med could become as big as OU Med in OKC in the next decade, it would be a huge economic boost and having the facilities so close to downtown/in downtown is a major bonus. 
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« Reply #65 on: October 08, 2020, 01:41:59 pm »

It would be prudent for OSU to grow these types of things in Tulsa or even in OKC where they can recruit people who need or want to work while getting advanced degrees. I'm thrilled they are expanding the medical programs here because if OSU Med could become as big as OU Med in OKC in the next decade, it would be a huge economic boost and having the facilities so close to downtown/in downtown is a major bonus.  

OSU expanding both its undergraduate and especially graduate programs in Tulsa would benefit both OSU and Tulsa.  They are already expanding the health sciences and medical programs, the next step is the building up the Greenwood campus and research programs/facilities in Tulsa.  More similar to the way CU operates with their Boulder and downtown Denver campuses, along with the health sciences center in Aurora.  Luckily for us in Tulsa all of the OSU facilities are clustered downtown.

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« Reply #66 on: October 08, 2020, 05:41:29 pm »

I don't doubt the notion that IBM was far better, but it always seemed that when he was killed it seemed to make things unravel faster. No doubt that it very likely would not have changed the outcome..

Telex actually did quite well in the mid to late 80s.  Then it went downhill fast.
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« Reply #67 on: October 12, 2020, 09:05:16 am »

Graphic I came across showing Tulsa's tech ecosystem, obviously it's fairly small but growing fast and mostly located downtown.  The WPX building would be a good spot for some of these companies and for more co-working space

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« Reply #68 on: October 12, 2020, 09:49:38 am »

Graphic I came across showing Tulsa's tech ecosystem, obviously it's fairly small but growing fast and mostly located downtown.  The WPX building would be a good spot for some of these companies and for more co-working space



I wonder who put that together?  The "Corporations" box is a little odd - 4 of the 12 have either left Tulsa or are on their way out (I don't think SemGroup has much left here), and it seems a bit of a stretch to include Kitchen 66 in the "Tech" ecosystem.
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« Reply #69 on: October 12, 2020, 01:24:20 pm »

I wonder who put that together?  The "Corporations" box is a little odd - 4 of the 12 have either left Tulsa or are on their way out (I don't think SemGroup has much left here), and it seems a bit of a stretch to include Kitchen 66 in the "Tech" ecosystem.

Atento Capital, which is funded by GKFF.  I agree that needs to be updated.  Vanguard was bought by Enterprise which is based in St Louis and Dollar Thrifty was bought by Hertz and based in Florida.  SemGroup was bought by Energy Transfer last year but still has a Tulsa presence.  We know about WPX..  They could easily backfill those with aviation companies like NORDAM and FlightSafety, or while not based in Tulsa have significant operations like Spirit Aerosystems, Triumph Aerostructures, Honeywell Aerospace and Lufthansa Technik.  Not to mention heat exchanger companies based and manufactured in Tulsa like AAON.
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« Reply #70 on: October 15, 2020, 10:38:13 am »

I don't doubt the notion that IBM was far better, but it always seemed that when he was killed it seemed to make things unravel faster. No doubt that it very likely would not have changed the outcome.. but you do see some companies find a way out from unhealthy cultures and founders. AMD was long thought for dead until Lisa Su took over and is now eating IBM's lunch in the chip market. There's plenty of Chesapeake's, WorldCom, Telex, etc. versions of it too that are alliterated due to leaderships poor choices. If one of these companies in Tulsa managed to hold on and be more viable long term it could have changed the course of Tulsa being considered a 'tech' city in this latest tech growth spurt. We've had some pretty epic collapses from all business groups (SemGroup, Semson, etc.) in corporate history here. Even the one's that halfway survived like Wiltel were acquired/sold off.

Yes, Google has had a presence here for a while, which is why I've mentioned them a few times since they are familiar with this area already. I feel like of any of the biggeest San Fran Bay Area HQ'ed firms they might be the easiest to recruit to open a regional office and would be close to one of their largest data centers. I've always been really shocked that we haven't seen more data centers built in Oklahoma too, not sure why that is. They tend to cluster near each other and Google is kind of on their own here. BUT, data centers do not employee many people so outside of property tax collections they don't have much of an economic impact compared to if they had a corporate regional office of 100-500 employees with $100k salaries.
 
Drone tech is something that is yet another thing we seem to fail to capture on, OSU has one of the best undergrad drone programs in the nation. Why we don't have advance degrees at OSU Tulsa for this with research partnerships with Amazon, CVS, etc. which are all exploring aerial delivery tech is beyond me... let alone why we aren't seeking partnership with military partners like Lockheed, etc. that are in the drone business. I know I've ranted about advanced degrees before but there are a ton of programs at OSU that are very well known nationally but the school gets docked in rankings for lack of advanced degree options and research. Why our politicians can't see the value of pumping money into research at OSU/OU is beyond me when they can plainly see what the payoff is in Texas for the amount of money that comes in UT, A&M, etc. from oil taxes and better funding. Drone tech seems like low hanging fruit to go after with OSU have established and a highly respected program and lots of vacant land on the OSU Tulsa campus for a few office buildings for research offices and drone/aerial divisions of these big companies.


I have used a lot of AMD devices in the past including memories they made long, long, ago, in a galaxy far, far away!  Good stuff!   But IBM is not really the competitive place for them.  Intel is, and they are certainly a very viable clone but they are less than 20% of Intel in the x86 market.

Telex was unraveling even with Wheeler.  Delorean was similar, just faster acting.

I had not heard of Google in Tulsa...when and where was that??  Mid-America facility has been there quite a few years and has expanded quite a bit.  There just aren't that many actually people needed to keep servers going.  Not like a manufacturing facility....

As for the state encouraging education - well, we have seen for always, with plenty of research to back it up, that the less educated a group of people is, the more conservative they vote.   Very easy cause/effect connection there.

Drones are just the latest piece of technology that has not fulfilled it's promise as an economic engine in the US.   Solar cells, and associated technology was thrown away a couple of decades ago, and it is a huge thing worldwide now!  We should have had that, but for lack of progressive ideas and approaches.   But even the 'leftovers' are big enough that there are over 150,000 new jobs a year on average just in CA for renewable power.  (Compared to about 17,000 total coal mining jobs in the entire country - and declining.)

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« Reply #71 on: October 15, 2020, 08:28:21 pm »


Drones are just the latest piece of technology that has not fulfilled it's promise as an economic engine in the US.   Solar cells, and associated technology was thrown away a couple of decades ago, and it is a huge thing worldwide now!  We should have had that, but for lack of progressive ideas and approaches.   But even the 'leftovers' are big enough that there are over 150,000 new jobs a year on average just in CA for renewable power.  (Compared to about 17,000 total coal mining jobs in the entire country - and declining.)

Not yet but it's coming.  If a company like Amazon figures out home delivery using drones you will see the industry explode, and Tulsa could potentially be at the epicenter.  Robotics, drones and AI are industries that tie in well with our existing base of aviation and industrial manufacturing businesses.
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« Reply #72 on: October 18, 2020, 09:51:39 pm »

Not yet but it's coming.  If a company like Amazon figures out home delivery using drones you will see the industry explode, and Tulsa could potentially be at the epicenter.  Robotics, drones and AI are industries that tie in well with our existing base of aviation and industrial manufacturing businesses.



I suspect home delivery is a sucker bet rabbit hole that won't go very far any time soon.  Like self driving cars...

The rest of drone world...?  Absolutely!  I am saving up for one - I have some thoughts about crop monitoring on the farm that will help with things like irrigation, fertility, germination, plant density, ground temp, moisture level, etc.  I can get same info in 10 minutes fly time that takes hours now.  There are some tractor videos out that have some drone work and I am amazed at what I can see in some of them.  And the guys doing the flights don't even mention it.!   HUGE agriculture possibilities!

We will, as a nation, most likely implement the heck out of drones.   But we won't be very well 'vertically integrated".  China is gonna make them and gain from all the associated 'core technology' advancements.   We started drones from info we got from Germany and started down that path big time after the war.  (Had an uncle in Air Force killed in a drone test event at Coronado - piloted fighter jet with ground control, passed back and forth.  Things got out of hand and did not end well. 1955.)

Long running pattern - do the ground work then let someone else run with it.


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« Reply #73 on: October 19, 2020, 11:57:09 am »


In the 60's and 70's Tulsa had HQ's for most every oil company in the world. It also had McDonnell Douglas, North American Rockwell, and Telex. Telex was a big gov't contractor for the electronics for the cruise missile program as well as building computer equipment for companies around the globe. They were on par with IBM at the time. McDonnell Douglas was building assemblies for Boeing for the 747, they built things for the space program as well as North American Rockwell.

Tulsa may have had offices of most every oil company in the world in the 60s and 70s, but it certainly never had the Headquarters of most every oil company in the world. Once you get past Skelly, Cities Service/Citgo, what other oil companies of any size were headquartered in Tulsa?

Exxon, Mobil, Texaco, Shell, Gulf, ARCO, Amoco, Chevron, Phillips, Conoco, BP, Total, Occidental, Unocal, Sunoco, . . . I'm pretty sure none were headquartered in Tulsa.

I think you are confusing Rockwell and McDonnell Douglas when it comes to building assemblies for the Boeing 747.  Rockwell did so in Tulsa (and that operation eventually evolved into Spirit Aerosystems). 
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« Reply #74 on: October 20, 2020, 10:50:40 am »

Tulsa may have had offices of most every oil company in the world in the 60s and 70s, but it certainly never had the Headquarters of most every oil company in the world. Once you get past Skelly, Cities Service/Citgo, what other oil companies of any size were headquartered in Tulsa?

Exxon, Mobil, Texaco, Shell, Gulf, ARCO, Amoco, Chevron, Phillips, Conoco, BP, Total, Occidental, Unocal, Sunoco, . . . I'm pretty sure none were headquartered in Tulsa.

I think you are confusing Rockwell and McDonnell Douglas when it comes to building assemblies for the Boeing 747.  Rockwell did so in Tulsa (and that operation eventually evolved into Spirit Aerosystems).  


Phillips was Bartlesville.  Almost close to Tulsa...

Originally we had Mid-Continent Petroleum (Cosden Oil & Gas), was headquartered in Tulsa.  By the late 40's it merged with Diamond DX oil company.  By 1962-ish became Sunray DX Oil Co.  1968, Sun Oil (Pennsylvania) bought it and then became  Sunoco.

Very close friend designed the DX Circle station at 51st and Yale.  I also got to drive my first bulldozer on that lot while dirt work was being done!  At way to young an age...  First pic on this link;

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/482237072590124580/




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I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
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