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July 15, 2020, 08:44:26 pm
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Author Topic: Philmont Scout Ranch  (Read 1021 times)
heironymouspasparagus
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« on: November 22, 2019, 09:02:53 pm »

Maybe not exactly politics...

Boy Scouts of America has mortgaged Philmont Scout Ranch to cover the costs of the molestation events in the past.  Words cannot convey how wrong this is.  I am reminded of the sorry management at Sears a couple decades ago that led to their destruction.   Deja Vu all over again....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/boy-scouts-mortgage-vast-mexico-194942764.html


"A Scout is Trustworthy..."   Current management has failed in their duties.

(loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty brave, clean, and reverent...)

« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 09:06:24 pm by heironymouspasparagus » Logged

"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
Conan71
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« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2019, 01:34:43 pm »

Maybe not exactly politics...

Boy Scouts of America has mortgaged Philmont Scout Ranch to cover the costs of the molestation events in the past.  Words cannot convey how wrong this is.  I am reminded of the sorry management at Sears a couple decades ago that led to their destruction.   Deja Vu all over again....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/boy-scouts-mortgage-vast-mexico-194942764.html


"A Scout is Trustworthy..."   Current management has failed in their duties.

(loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty brave, clean, and reverent...)



Considering the Cimarron, NM economy is highly dependent upon Philmont, it's concerning to us.  It was a pretty hot topic in our brewery last week, but those who work at Philmont don't seem concerned about the future of the ranch, just the fact that BSA mortgaged this without consulting the Ranch Committee.  

I'm rather surprised the bank loaned at a rate of roughly 3100 per acre considering larger ranches sell in the neighborhood of $500/acre, that's really sticking their neck out there.  There are great improvements and structures at camp HQ, but I'm still not sure it would bring $440M in a foreclosure fire sale.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2019, 05:28:39 pm »

Considering the Cimarron, NM economy is highly dependent upon Philmont, it's concerning to us.  It was a pretty hot topic in our brewery last week, but those who work at Philmont don't seem concerned about the future of the ranch, just the fact that BSA mortgaged this without consulting the Ranch Committee.  

I'm rather surprised the bank loaned at a rate of roughly 3100 per acre considering larger ranches sell in the neighborhood of $500/acre, that's really sticking their neck out there.  There are great improvements and structures at camp HQ, but I'm still not sure it would bring $440M in a foreclosure fire sale.


BSA don't care.  If it came to foreclosure, they would just vote themselves big bonuses for doing such a great job of taking care of the organization, then bail.  Leaving people left behind to deal with their malfeasance.   And then they argue with the committee about the agreement made between Phillips and BSA.  But it was a long time ago...     Disgusting bunch of people running the show now!




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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
Conan71
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2019, 06:05:46 pm »


BSA don't care.  If it came to foreclosure, they would just vote themselves big bonuses for doing such a great job of taking care of the organization, then bail.  Leaving people left behind to deal with their malfeasance.   And then they argue with the committee about the agreement made between Phillips and BSA.  But it was a long time ago...     Disgusting bunch of people running the show now!


Actually no, that's a gross mischaracterization of the people running the show now, several whom I know.  Yes, they foobared up by not going to the Ranch Committee first. When Waite Phillips' own grand daughter, who still serves on the Ranch Committee and who keeps a relatively high profile around Philmont apparently wasn't aware beforehand, that's a boner on BSA's admin's part.

Lest anyone think there was something systemic going on with coverups, reassignments, or whatnot, according to people who should know, that was not the case with BSA's national office.  There may have been issues on the local level which never went reported to National, much as I'm sure there were many issues in parishes which were never reported to dioceses in the Catholic Church.  To be perfectly honest, I'm surprised no other major church or organization like Big Brothers and Sisters has been sued en masse like the Catholic Church.

Any time you've got an organization serving youth with mentors, there's always a risk of something untoward happening.  It's sad but true.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2019, 10:12:59 pm »

Actually no, that's a gross mischaracterization of the people running the show now, several whom I know.  Yes, they foobared up by not going to the Ranch Committee first. When Waite Phillips' own grand daughter, who still serves on the Ranch Committee and who keeps a relatively high profile around Philmont apparently wasn't aware beforehand, that's a boner on BSA's admin's part.

Lest anyone think there was something systemic going on with coverups, reassignments, or whatnot, according to people who should know, that was not the case with BSA's national office.  There may have been issues on the local level which never went reported to National, much as I'm sure there were many issues in parishes which were never reported to dioceses in the Catholic Church.  To be perfectly honest, I'm surprised no other major church or organization like Big Brothers and Sisters has been sued en masse like the Catholic Church.

Any time you've got an organization serving youth with mentors, there's always a risk of something untoward happening.  It's sad but true.


I truly hope what you say is true.   Boy Scouts was tremendous organization when I was in it and I really got a lot from it.  Had some grandkids in it, and now have some great grands in Cubs right now, getting ready to go to the 'big leagues' next year.   I have been really disappointed by them for several years, but am not willing to 'throw out the baby with the bath water' so to speak.  At least not yet. 

$440 million, though.  If that was the best they could come up with, and the bank that loaned that to them thought it was a good idea, then there is a whole lot of something not right going on.   For now I will give them the benefit of thinking they are merely incompetent.  Got some ideas about the bankers though and am not so gracious with them.




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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
swake
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2019, 11:30:02 pm »

Actually no, that's a gross mischaracterization of the people running the show now, several whom I know.  Yes, they foobared up by not going to the Ranch Committee first. When Waite Phillips' own grand daughter, who still serves on the Ranch Committee and who keeps a relatively high profile around Philmont apparently wasn't aware beforehand, that's a boner on BSA's admin's part.

Lest anyone think there was something systemic going on with coverups, reassignments, or whatnot, according to people who should know, that was not the case with BSA's national office.  There may have been issues on the local level which never went reported to National, much as I'm sure there were many issues in parishes which were never reported to dioceses in the Catholic Church.  To be perfectly honest, I'm surprised no other major church or organization like Big Brothers and Sisters has been sued en masse like the Catholic Church.

Any time you've got an organization serving youth with mentors, there's always a risk of something untoward happening.  It's sad but true.

Which part of the family was that? Waite's daughter married a minor league baseball player named Breckinridge, they lived for many years across the street from my Grandparents. One of their grandsons owned the bar Breck's back in the 90s in the old Louisiane building at 18th and Boston. A friend of mine owned the bar next door. I think a brother of the grandson was a state senator for awhile.
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Conan71
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2019, 02:21:45 am »

Which part of the family was that? Waite's daughter married a minor league baseball player named Breckinridge, they lived for many years across the street from my Grandparents. One of their grandsons owned the bar Breck's back in the 90s in the old Louisiane building at 18th and Boston. A friend of mine owned the bar next door. I think a brother of the grandson was a state senator for awhile.

Waite and Genevieve had a son named Elliott or "Chope".  His daughter is on the Ranch Committee and is very involved in Philmont.  She's very visible around the community when she's in town.

Chope's sister married a Breckenridge.  Her grandsons were Phillips and Flint Breckenridge.  Flint was the one who was a legislator.  They are not very involved in Philmont, if at all. 

On an interesting note, Bob LaFortune still serves on the Ranch Committee for Philmont.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2019, 11:20:59 pm »

The Mormons are pulling out 400,000 of their kids that are Scouts.  Jan 1.  

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
Conan71
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« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2019, 01:10:07 pm »

The Mormons are pulling out 400,000 of their kids that are Scouts.  Jan 1.  



Virtually every article on this I've read since the mortgage story broke in November make it sound as if this was a result of the suits as in the "continuing misfortune of BSA" This isn't new news, it was originally announced in May of 2018 and to become effective at the end of this year.  This came on the heels of accepting girls and announcing an official name change to Scouting BSA.  I guess treating women as something other than chattel upset the LDS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/05/09/mormon-church-breaks-all-ties-with-boy-scouts-ending-100-year-relationship/

I'm curious how many of the suits filed may involve leaders from Mormon troops. 
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2019, 03:09:53 pm »

Virtually every article on this I've read since the mortgage story broke in November make it sound as if this was a result of the suits as in the "continuing misfortune of BSA" This isn't new news, it was originally announced in May of 2018 and to become effective at the end of this year.  This came on the heels of accepting girls and announcing an official name change to Scouting BSA.  I guess treating women as something other than chattel upset the LDS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/05/09/mormon-church-breaks-all-ties-with-boy-scouts-ending-100-year-relationship/

I'm curious how many of the suits filed may involve leaders from Mormon troops. 


I bet at least some.  Mormons have also been in some news reports about the billions they claim are doing "good works" with...if the good works means keeping the money to themselves.  Kinda like the hypocrisy of Hobby Lobby and Chic Fil A. 

I think I see a trend...and a trajectory.  Overall, slight divergence from this topic, but kinda points out some truths.  Just at the time this was written, Hobby Lobby and Chic Fil A had not become cults yet.


"Forget rocket-ships, super-technology, moving sidewalks and all the rubbishy hope in science fiction. No one will ever go to Mars and live.

 A religion has evolved from the belief that we have a future in outer space; but it is a half-baked religion — it is a little like Mormonism or the Cargo Cult.

Our future is this mildly poisoned earth and its smoky air. We are in for hunger and hard work, the highest stage of poverty — no starvation, but crudeness everywhere, clumsy art, simple language, bad books, brutal laws, plain vegetables, and clothes of one colour. It will be damp and dull, like this. It will be monochrome and crowded — how could it be different? There will be no star wars or galactic empires and no more money to waste on the loony nationalism in space programs."

--Paul Theroux

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
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