Jenks Outlet Mall starting?

[patric]

People are confused I was talking about the pool?

[swake]

People are confused I was talking about the pool?

How many times can this happen before the foundation liquefies? 

This was about the pool?

[patric]

This was about the pool?

Interesting.  I recall a few days ago drone pix of their pristine blue swimming pool being flanked by muddy river water as if it were sneaking up on its prey.
The river won.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

The quote you preceded that with was about the hotel/gaming building designs:

The resort’s hotel tower and expanded gaming and restaurants were built with “675 heavily reinforced concrete piers, eight feet in diameter that are 80 to 87 feet below the ground and socketed to the bedrock,” according to a news release from the resort. “Additionally, the resort complex is further protected from land erosion due to the one-inch thick, solid steel sheet piling surrounding the river side of the property from the hotel tower to the theater. The sheet piling begins at the elevation level of 614 and protects the land all the way to the bedrock elevation level of 588.”

The hotel was designed to withstand this type of flooding, but the pool was not. That would've added tremendous expense raising the pool and everything else that much higher. Sucks for them to have this happen so early on in its life, but they'll wipe their teary eyes away with the millions of gambled away dollars and somehow figure out how to move on. 

[Vision 2025]

People are confused I was talking about the pool?

Your total post "As we speak, Riverspirit Casino is surrounded by water, and all the parking is submerged.  How many times can this happen before the foundation liquefies?" 

 

[BKDotCom]

Your total post "As we speak, Riverspirit Casino is surrounded by water, and all the parking is submerged.  How many times can this happen before the foundation liquefies?" 

 

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/river-spirit-resort-announces-it-will-remain-closed-through-june/article_37996e13-dfec-5193-9b24-c969c2842768.html

The resort’s hotel tower and expanded gaming and restaurants were built with “675 heavily reinforced concrete piers, eight feet in diameter that are 80 to 87 feet below the ground and socketed to the bedrock,” according to a news release from the resort. “Additionally, the resort complex is further protected from land erosion due to the one-inch thick, solid steel sheet piling surrounding the river side of the property from the hotel tower to the theater. The sheet piling begins at the elevation level of 614 and protects the land all the way to the bedrock elevation level of 588.”

[patric]

Your total post "As we speak, Riverspirit Casino is surrounded by water, and all the parking is submerged.  How many times can this happen before the foundation liquefies?" 

You pointed out that it was set on bedrock, and I followed with the handout verifying your statement.  Geek appeal, I guess.
THEN I commented on the pristine pool with the approaching muddy water.

[In_Tulsa]

https://simon-malls.cld.bz/Tulsa-Premium-Outlets

[ELG4America]

https://simon-malls.cld.bz/Tulsa-Premium-Outlets

That document does not inspire confidence in Simon's ability to execute with precision. It references travel on I-75 (which runs from Michigan to Florida) and sort seems to imply an entrance on Riverside Dr. from which the site is currently separated by a raging river and always separated by some water and a bit of sand. There's a bunch of other little errors and weird things to call out (like the fact that QT is not on the Fortune 500 list because it is a private company and Williams was left off their list.) I guess it was probably written by someone whose closest familiarity with Tulsa was our Wikipedia page. Kind of irritating. As has been stated before the plan should include physical interaction with the river and west-side river trails any other design is a waste of the site.

[D-TownTulsan]

https://simon-malls.cld.bz/Tulsa-Premium-Outlets

This is most likely a personal thing, and I'm sure that it's in early enough to make design adjustments, but I'm not the biggest fan of the material pallet of the Norfolk VA's example taking precedent for something in Tulsa. I understand the "being next to a body of water" aspect, but it's a bit too "nautical". I also understand it's very difficult to make essentially a giant enclosed parking lot seem interesting. Hopefully they will be a little more thoughtful with design considerations relating to Tulsa / Green Country / Ozark vernacular. Perhaps more greens, and wood-ish elements (not dumb "picket fence siding") and corten steel details could ground it more in the area.

[Conan71]

I have had serious doubts about this taking place with the move to Jenks after they abandoned the Turkey Mountain site.  After the recent floods, I'm even less convinced this is going to eventually happen.  The biggest retail complex competition to this one is Woodland Hills Mall, another Simon property which, in the past, has been identified as one of their more successful still operating indoor mall concepts.  Why build something which competes with an existing, successful property.

They have come up with one stall after another on this.  They announced they were dropping plans over four years ago at Turkey Mountain.  When they announced they were building in Jenks, I believe the target opening was 2017.  I am aware there was an issue with a gas line R.O.W. that had to be addressed and I think that was eventually moved.  I'm curious if Simon is simply keeping this up to thwart competition to Woodland or if they can't get enough leases signed to move forward.  Very odd behavior from the largest retail REIT in the world.

I think they have kept up the charade to prevent another outlet from being built or planned.  They managed to run off Horizon with their development in east Tulsa but I've never heard an official termination of the Cherokee Outlets project out in Catoosa.

Anyone know if the Cherokee project has officially been sh!t canned or not?

[In_Tulsa]

I have had serious doubts about this taking place with the move to Jenks after they abandoned the Turkey Mountain site.  After the recent floods, I'm even less convinced this is going to eventually happen.  The biggest retail complex competition to this one is Woodland Hills Mall, another Simon property which, in the past, has been identified as one of their more successful still operating indoor mall concepts.  Why build something which competes with an existing, successful property.

They have come up with one stall after another on this.  They announced they were dropping plans over four years ago at Turkey Mountain.  When they announced they were building in Jenks, I believe the target opening was 2017.  I am aware there was an issue with a gas line R.O.W. that had to be addressed and I think that was eventually moved.  I'm curious if Simon is simply keeping this up to thwart competition to Woodland or if they can't get enough leases signed to move forward.  Very odd behavior from the largest retail REIT in the world.



I think they have kept up the charade to prevent another outlet from being built or planned.  They managed to run off Horizon with their development in east Tulsa but I've never heard an official termination of the Cherokee Outlets project out in Catoosa.

Anyone know if the Cherokee project has officially been sh!t canned or not?

Cherokee one is dead. They are all leased up and ready to go. Ground breaking will be announced soon. This will be an exciting development. This will be the only location in Oklahoma for a lot of the stores. It’s a whole different market then Woodland Hills.

[ELG4America]

This is most likely a personal thing, and I'm sure that it's in early enough to make design adjustments, but I'm not the biggest fan of the material pallet of the Norfolk VA's example taking precedent for something in Tulsa. I understand the "being next to a body of water" aspect, but it's a bit too "nautical". I also understand it's very difficult to make essentially a giant enclosed parking lot seem interesting. Hopefully they will be a little more thoughtful with design considerations relating to Tulsa / Green Country / Ozark vernacular. Perhaps more greens, and wood-ish elements (not dumb "picket fence siding") and corten steel details could ground it more in the area.

I don't like the design details either. Its another thing that's bizarre about that document. It keeps talking about Tulsa's Art Deco heritage and then in the last pages previews a design that is not at all in keeping with the existing built environment of Tulsa. At best the proposal matches the Jenks aquarium, which is super ugly and has that tacky faux-nautical theme.

1. Reorient the construction toward the river to enhance the site not diminish it.
2. Drop the tacky "could be anywhere waterfront" design
3. Actually deliver exciting retailers in a comfortable compelling setting.

Accomplish those three things and I'll be totally on board. Miss on them and I think this thing will fail long term or never get off the ground.

[DTowner]

I don't like the design details either. Its another thing that's bizarre about that document. It keeps talking about Tulsa's Art Deco heritage and then in the last pages previews a design that is not at all in keeping with the existing built environment of Tulsa. At best the proposal matches the Jenks aquarium, which is super ugly and has that tacky faux-nautical theme.

1. Reorient the construction toward the river to enhance the site not diminish it.
2. Drop the tacky "could be anywhere waterfront" design
3. Actually deliver exciting retailers in a comfortable compelling setting.

Accomplish those three things and I'll be totally on board. Miss on them and I think this thing will fail long term or never get off the ground.

Those changes would be nice, but I assume it is a boilerplate design used before and it will simply be plopped down on the property in a way that fits and functions without thought to much else.  Simon knows that any unique Tulsa elements or extra touches will add to the cost but not attract any other retailers or additional customers.  It is an outlet mall and it will look and function like every other outlet mall Simon has built.  This site will succeed or fail based on the stores it has, not the architecture.  Sadly.

[ELG4America]

Those changes would be nice, but I assume it is a boilerplate design used before and it will simply be plopped down on the property in a way that fits and functions without thought to much else.  Simon knows that any unique Tulsa elements or extra touches will add to the cost but not attract any other retailers or additional customers.  It is an outlet mall and it will look and function like every other outlet mall Simon has built.  This site will succeed or fail based on the stores it has, not the architecture.  Sadly.

You are 100% right. The fact that you're right also explains a significant part of why retail is struggling so much in the US right now. The built environment does matter economically.