The "this has nothing to do with Tulsa" mega-post

[Conan71]

No specifics other than the general casting around looking for water that OKC is involved in.  In particular, trying to steal it from the Native Americans...again.  And the ongoing issues keeping the lakes full during the last few years.  The water for new industry comes from the same drought stricken places that agriculture and recreation are all vying for.  We can do some measured expansion, but if we "suddenly" - as in 10 or 15 years - doubled the industry (and accompanying population, infrastructure, and recreational needs) in this state, there would be issues.

We have doubled our population in the last 40 years or so (+/-) and water is available as needed now, but the 'cushion' is dramatically smaller than the past.

Add to the fact that groundwater is being contaminated at an increasing rate, there will be spot shortages.   Norman - gets about 40% of it's water from wells and they have had to shutdown at least 3 of their wells in just the last few years - arsenic and other contaminants.   One of the things in their 2060 plan is reuse of water.  Treat it, send it to homes, then gather it back through the sewer treatment plant and put it back into Lake Thunderbird to go through treatment/use again.   (Local nickname - Lake Dirtybird.)

According to this USGS report, arsenic and hexavalent chromium are naturally occurring.  I'm not sure if you were insinuating that the ground water was being contaminated by industry or human activity.  Pretty fascinating read if you have not already. 

https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2005/3111/

There is very little doubt that at least the western half of the United States is going to have to get its act together on water management and very soon.  We were within weeks of losing our water supply after the Ute Park Fire last summer.  Cimarroncita Reservoir on Philmont Scout Ranch is our primary water source which is all mountain-shed water.  It was about depleted before the monsoons finally came in mid-July due to the severe drought here last year.  With all the ash and other byproducts of the fire washing into the Cimarron River which is our secondary water source, releasing water from Eagle Nest Lake would have been of no benefit so we would have been seriously screwed had we not gotten the rains in July and August!

Much better winter so far with plenty of snow in the high country and down here as well.

[joiei]

More Oklahoma City Midtown development

https://www.kriyahotels.com/our-hotels/

Pics via OKCTalk development forum.

Sorry Laramie, but that building is UGLY.  Is that the best the developers can come up with?  I don't see any retail on the ground floor to encourage locals. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

According to this USGS report, arsenic and hexavalent chromium are naturally occurring.  I'm not sure if you were insinuating that the ground water was being contaminated by industry or human activity.  Pretty fascinating read if you have not already. 

https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2005/3111/

There is very little doubt that at least the western half of the United States is going to have to get its act together on water management and very soon.  We were within weeks of losing our water supply after the Ute Park Fire last summer.  Cimarroncita Reservoir on Philmont Scout Ranch is our primary water source which is all mountain-shed water.  It was about depleted before the monsoons finally came in mid-July due to the severe drought here last year.  With all the ash and other byproducts of the fire washing into the Cimarron River which is our secondary water source, releasing water from Eagle Nest Lake would have been of no benefit so we would have been seriously screwed had we not gotten the rains in July and August!

Much better winter so far with plenty of snow in the high country and down here as well.

They said small concentrations occur naturally, then skated all around other possible sources in that article.  But they did talk about creation of arsenic from oil getting into the aquifer near Bemidji, MN and elevating arsenic.  Would love to see what they have to say about that for Oklahoma, given the much more massive amount of oil spills and ground water contamination we have had for over 100 years.  NE OKlahoma has extreme difficulty getting a good drinkable water well - as I have been finding out in the last couple years - due to the omnipresent contamination by oil industry.  State water board has a map of all the water wells in the state and there aren't many that are viable close to Tulsa - especially in my area of interest near Oologah.

https://toxics.usgs.gov/highlights/2015-01-26-arsenic_plumes.html


And if one wants to go all "conspiracy theory"  on the topic, it really isn't that big a leap to get to where one may think that there are 'corporate water interests' that encourage the degradation of wells and surface water supplies so they can make big bucks selling you (anyone) a bottle of water.  Even better if you are forced into it, because they have the capital to invest in the process of making water "clean" and "safe".  Water will be much more lucrative than oil in the next few decades - you can see the work in process in Colorado for the last 100+ years...just try to buy some water rights there! 

[swake]

Sorry Laramie, but that building is UGLY.  Is that the best the developers can come up with?  I don't see any retail on the ground floor to encourage locals. 

It's beyond awful.

[Laramie]

It's beyond awful.

LMAO, no need to apologize, it's dog pound ugly   ...glad you guys got a good laugh!   

[Laramie]

Oklahoma City Convention Center Complex

                                                          Oklahoma City Convention Center
                                                                   200,000-square-foot exhibit hall on the ground floor, divisible into four spaces
                                                                     30,000-square-foot ballroom, with a 10,000-square-foot pre-function space and a 4,000-square-foot balcony
                                                                     45,000 square feet of meeting space, which can be configured in up to 27 rooms.

                                                          Omni Convention Center Hotel
                                                                    605 guest rooms
                                                                50,000 square feet of ballroom and meeting space.

                                                                                                Fairfield Inn & Suites
                                                                                                        133 guest rooms    

Oklahoma City Convention Center Garage

                                                                                                       865 spaces.
                                                                                                        435-foot-long enclosed skyway is to connect the garage to the convention center.
                                                                                                        500 surface parking on the convention center complex
      

[Tulsasooner78]

It's beyond awful.

No chance that passes Automobile Alley design review.  I am skeptical of the origins of the design slide.   I don’t believe it was ever intended to represent the final design. I think it was a place holder in a presentation.  Also note they had the DT district name incorrect.   Midtown and not automobile alley.

[Laramie]

No chance that passes Automobile Alley design review.  I am skeptical of the origins of the design slide.   I don’t believe it was ever intended to represent the final design. I think it was a place holder in a presentation.  Also note they had the DT district name incorrect.   Midtown and not automobile alley.

I hope it's a placeholder.  Just imagine if you were on the design & review committee--no you just didn't bring us some crap that looks like that.

The design & review committee will go into complete shock if this is ever presented before their committee.  

[Laramie]

  Oklahoma City convention center complex construction pic progress via OKCTalk forum:

[cannon_fodder]

How did OKC end up with so much underutilized (or flat out empty) land between downtown and the river? I get the part cut off by the interstate, always harder to join developing areas when a physical barrier is in place. But downtown OKC has been in a 25+ year revival.  With the "old" convention center, the gardens, and the arena (which turned into an NBA arena), not too mention easy access to downtown and bricktown - it seemed ripe for incremental development projects. Heck, it seems that at some point it was razed - did an "urban renewal" plan fall flat (see, e.g., the empty lots north of 244 in downtown Tulsa)?

I'm not trying to be critical, God knows Tulsa has pockets we destroyed intentional, through policy, or through one quirk or another.  I've just always wondered as I drive through that area and then see all the other developments going on.  At least you are able to capitalize on the it for the current project!

[Tulsasooner78]

The large area south of Bricktown is the CO OP site and was just recently cleared.   The other area south of Reno one block north and one block south of the old  I40 allighnment and all the way to the river was effectively killed off by the highway.   The density that was there prior to the highway was mostly cleared and turned into blighted industrial use.   It is being cleaned up and developers/investors have acquired enormous chunks of land.   However,  it is a slow process to develop with inflated land costs, competing infil developments still available in the core of DT and the ever changing retail environment.   There is also the “South OKC” perception problem similar to North Tulsa.   The area doesn’t have any historic neighborhoods and is a clean slate for high quality single family development.  I truly believe this area is the perfect fit for infill similar to the Wheeler District that is being developed in OKC.   Hard to believe back in the day along the river there was a dense area with a zoo and golf course.   

[Tulsasooner78]

https://www.wheelerdistrict.com/

[Tulsasooner78]

The other issue was the impact of the failed Pei Plan, which cleared a significant amount of dense development throughout the core of DT OKC resulting in he loss of numerous Art Deco treasures in OKC.  It has taken 25 years of momentum to overcome the damage that was done.

[Tulsasooner78]

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk92/gandjdunlap/OKCdowntownaerial.jpg

https://goo.gl/images/fCnUAT

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Criterion_Theater_OKC_1929.jpg

https://newsok.com/article/5546732/im-pei-legacy-in-okc-mixed-on-his-100th-birthday

[Tulsasooner78]

Truly incomprehensible what OKC destroyed for urban renewal in the 60’s.