The "this has nothing to do with Tulsa" mega-post

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Not sure where you were spending your time or when you were spending it here, but I live in downtown OKC and spend most of my time in Tulsa around downtown/midtown. Your experience does not reflect what I've seen between both cities. I have noticed that for the most part, people like the city they grew up in more than the other. I've also noticed, at least among my friends or people I've met in both cities, that Tulsans tend to compare Tulsa to OKC A LOT, often taking shots at OKC when I mention I'm from here or in general conversations, while for the most part people in OKC all but forget that Tulsa exists. I'm obviously not one of those people since I spend a lot of time between the two and enjoy what both have to offer but the inferiority complex or competition that Tulsans seem to have with OKC has always been comical to me. This thread is a good example lol.

Oh, the old "I don't even think of you at all" quip... what a burn!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlOSdRMSG_k

That doesn't seem to be true at all. I know plenty of people who moved to Tulsa from OKC and vice versa. Most people make it back to where they were born regardless, but anyone in OKC who says they don't know of the only other large metro in the state is not well educated and/or terribly untraveled. It's like comparing Dallas to Fort Worth or San Antonio vs Austin. It would be weird to live in one and not think of the other or have any opinion. Anyone who knows about or has been to Tulsa area know it's far more beautiful than OKC in terms of natural beauty and parks in general and also known for better music and art scene. Tulsans compare what Tulsa has vs NW Arkansas a lot (maybe just as much as OKC) and Missouri and Dallas area and KC. There's plenty of ways Tulsa can be better and plenty of things that make it better than other places.

[PhiAlpha]

Oh, the old "I don't even think of you at all" quip... what a burn!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlOSdRMSG_k

That doesn't seem to be true at all. I know plenty of people who moved to Tulsa from OKC and vice versa. Most people make it back to where they were born regardless, but anyone in OKC who says they don't know of the only other large metro in the state is not well educated and/or terribly untraveled. It's like comparing Dallas to Fort Worth or San Antonio vs Austin. It would be weird to live in one and not think of the other or have any opinion. Anyone who knows about or has been to Tulsa area know it's far more beautiful than OKC in terms of natural beauty and parks in general and also known for better music and art scene. Tulsans compare what Tulsa has vs NW Arkansas a lot (maybe just as much as OKC) and Missouri and Dallas area and KC. There's plenty of ways Tulsa can be better and plenty of things that make it better than other places.

That was obviously an exaggeration everyone knows that Tulsa is there but in my experience people in OKC just don't talk about or compare OKC to Tulsa near as much as people in Tulsa do. Definitely don't hear people flying in with the type of derogatory comments I hear from people in Tulsa. It's almost comical how people in Tulsa will make some type of put down comment about OKC the second you introduce yourself as being from OKC. I just haven't noticed that as much the other way around. Granted those are my experiences vs what I've witnessed when Tulsans talk about Tulsa around people from OKC but it is what it is. It just always seems like a competition that one side really cares about while the other side doesn't. I guess best way to say it is that I haven't noticed the level of smugness in OKC when comparing the two that I do in Tulsa.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Yes Tulsa has slightly more topography and i agree that overall its prettier but it's not like you're living in Yellowstone or something. The nice historic neighborhoods (heritage hills, Mesta Park, Crownheights, Edgemere Park, Nichols Hills, etc) all look about the same to me, have big nice old trees and rolling hills just like all of Tulsa's nice areas. Same for both cities' nicer suburbs like Norman and Edmond vs Owasso, Jenks, and BA. I would say South Tulsa has a big leg up on the suburban parts of OKC.

NE OK...not quite the Yellowstone of OK, but it is the Great Smoky Mtn's of OK.   OKC is the Kansas of Oklahoma...

ALL the Big Lakes (if one is into water based entertainment), scenic drives, cute little novelties - largest totem pole, blue whale, etc.  (Yeah, OKC has a round barn nearby.)  Woolaroc, Tallgrass Prairie, most religious cult headquarters.  Better amusement parks - well until the cult sold it a few weeks ago...

Almost "Portland-esque" in it's ambience'...   JK.!

[SXSW]

Your characterization of OKCTalk is interesting lol. Though in seriousness I try to follow Tulsa developments and I wish this site was half of what Pete's built in OKCTalk. He has threads or articles on every development, restaurant, retail venue, etc in any stage of planning or construction througout OKC.

Pete does a good job with OKCTalk, if he created a similar forum for Tulsa I'm sure it would be a hit.  Pete needs to find a Tulsa version of himself to run it though lol.  In the meantime he should take his drone up the turnpike and give us some aerials of the Gathering Place and new developments downtown!

[heironymouspasparagus]

I've also noticed, at least among my friends or people I've met in both cities, that Tulsans tend to compare Tulsa to OKC A LOT, often taking shots at OKC when I mention I'm from here or in general conversations, while for the most part people in OKC all but forget that Tulsa exists. I'm obviously not one of those people since I spend a lot of time between the two and enjoy what both have to offer but the inferiority complex or competition that Tulsans seem to have with OKC has always been comical to me. This thread is a good example lol.

You are sure right about that!!  I have commented on it in the past - Tulsa does seem to have this "little brother" syndrome going on, when in reality, there is nothing here to feel inferior about.!  Compared to OKC or any other city and metro area this size in the middle of the country!  Well, except for maybe some of the politicians we elect.  But then OKC does outdo us on batsh$t crazy on that one - think Sally Kern, etc - but only by a hair!  We got Nathan Dahm and Billy-Bob-Markwayne Mullins in this area.  And Robert Millar leftovers (Elohim City)...

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Yes Tulsa has slightly more topography and i agree that overall its prettier but it's not like you're living in Yellowstone or something. The nice historic neighborhoods (heritage hills, Mesta Park, Crownheights, Edgemere Park, Nichols Hills, etc) all look about the same to me, have big nice old trees and rolling hills just like all of Tulsa's nice areas. Same for both cities' nicer suburbs like Norman and Edmond vs Owasso, Jenks, and BA. I would say South Tulsa has a big leg up on the suburban parts of OKC.

OKC has nicer suburbs overall and white flight was much more dramatic there pushing the money out to the suburbs much more drastically. Tulsa has nice neighborhoods from just south of downtown with a nice large midtown area with a solid stretch of mostly nice neighborhoods all the way to the next Suburb, Bixby/Jenks. That "corridor" has much higher higher education attainment than the rest of Oklahoma. In OKC, the higher educated parts are pushed out to Edmond mostly.

Tulsa:

OKC: Notice the massive core from middle/south OKC where bachelor degree rates are 0-9.9%...

You can "see" these maps in action when you drive through those areas and how OKC shifted away from its core more. Tulsa is lucky to have solid continuity between nice neighborhoods with pretty good public school districts and downtown all the way to beyond South Tulsa.

[Laramie]

I wasn't characterizing OKCTalk.  

Seems like an interesting site, and I said I may well have to sign up to contribute there, too.  Am interested in seeing what Pete is up to.  Wonder if he will approve me to join.??

I WAS specifically talking about two participants there.  Different thing from OKCTalk...

TulsaNow does need to upgrade in at least one area - this forum in particular - it doesn't have https: security.  I don't know anything about the running of this show, but get the feel that it is volunteers with limited budget and IT support...??  Nice little place to come visit

He'd approve you?  There are a number of posters from TulsaNow on the OKCTalk forum--all are welcome.  Pete has his share of opposition posters, he respects you and your position if you disagree with his views.

Again, OKCTalk has a special tread devoted to Tulsa.  It helps to know what both cities are doing because much of what affects Oklahoma happens in Tulsa & Oklahoma City.  PhiApha speaks with knowledge, we've had our disagreements; however I've always respected him because he's armed with knowledge--never half cocked.

I applaud 'The Gathering Place,' it's a well planned blue print and investment for Tulsa; a community that supported this project from the generosity of its donors.  George Kaiser loves Tulsa & Oklahoma.  He's one of 7 NBA Thunder ownership, Oklahoma's first major league sport.

Would love to see a coming together of our two largest communities.  We have much to gain working together; learning from each other.  Let's dispense with the bashing & snide remarks; growth, developments & gains are a win-win for Oklahoma.

[Laramie]

Would love to see some form of rapid transit between our cities.  Potential game-changer for development that could be shared 45 miles from each city to the mid point of the Turner Turnpike.

[Townsend]

Would love to see some form of rapid transit between our cities.  Potential game-changer for development that could be shared 45 miles from each city to the mid point of the Turner Turnpike.

That would be exciting but it might be tough to persuade the turnpike authority and the towns in between.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Would love to see some form of rapid transit between our cities.  Potential game-changer for development that could be shared 45 miles from each city to the mid point of the Turner Turnpike.

Wasn't that the purpose of the Tanger Outlet Mall that was in Stroud? I think I went there twice in 1992/93 and never went back. The prices didn't justify the drive, and I don't remember how well it was doing before the storm leveled it in 1999.

[Laramie]

Wasn't that the purpose of the Tanger Outlet Mall that was in Stroud? I think I went there twice in 1992/93 and never went back. The prices didn't justify the drive, and I don't remember how well it was doing before the storm leveled it in 1999.

Tanger Outlet Mall did well; the out-of-state owners chose not to rebuild following the May 3, 1999 super tornado.

Oklahoma City built its outlet mall in 2011; 395,000 sq., ft., under roof--twice the size of Tanger.  The quality of items are great for the brands and prices.  Seems to be going great.

Whenever in Texas, I visited the outlet malls in Gainesville & Denton; they don't seem to be as lucrative as they once were; probably on life support as they are more trending toward mixed-use.   The big Grapevine Mall attracted many of the locals from the outlets.

Not so sure malls are the future as mega companies like Amazon & Walmart expand on-line sales with amazing profits.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Tanger Outlet Mall did well; the out-of-state owners chose not to rebuild following the May 3, 1999 super tornado.

Oklahoma City built its outlet mall in 2011; 395,000 sq., ft., under roof--twice the size of Tanger.  The quality of items are great for the brands and prices.  Seems to be going great.


Not so sure malls are the future as mega companies like Amazon & Walmart expand on-line sales with amazing profits.

Most outlet items are made-for-outlets. Usually completely separate supply chain from regular brand and usually made to be sold at the exact "discounted prices" you pay.

Surprisingly, Amazon hasn't been very profitable until just this year when they made record $2 billion in 2Q on $51 billion revenue,  but previously were barely making any profit in comparison to the massive revenue. 2 day shipping is expensive and everything is going back into making it the largest retail company on earth (So real profitability is probably yet to be realized).

The end game is when Amazon will have majority control on retail and be able to really start finding their own high-profitability niches and controlling prices in those markets (Sort of like Luxottica did with eye glasses). Then they could be extremely profitable and profits could be in the tens of billions per quarter (in theory). WalMart had just about gotten to that level of profitability in some regards when Amazon and other online retailers pushed the envelope (Walmart was making ~$16B/yr profit on ~$180B market cap). Now Amazon is the big guy (with $874 billion market cap!) and Walmart isn't even that close with a still-ludicrous $284 billion market cap.

[Laramie]

Agree 100%

Amazon's in a position to profit from the retail market.  I'm of the old school value--it hasn't changed.  My purchases are driven by the senses (taste, sight, touch, smell, and sound); therefore I prefer not to purchase online because of unknown risks.  

Tulsa & Oklahoma City were among the cities to submit bids for Amazon's 2nd HQ.

New Amazon fulfillment center to create 1,500 jobs in Oklahoma, officials say:  https://kfor.com/2018/05/28/new-amazon-fulfillment-center-to-create-1500-jobs-in-oklahoma-officials-say/

The facility is expected to be more than 2.5 million square feet and will be located near the Will Rogers World Airport on the east side of the property between 59th St. and 104th St.

There is an Oklahoma City  Amazon delivery warehouse center at 4401 E Hefner.   OKC will possess two Amazon properties.

Tulsa will have a similar 1,500 job Amazon facility:  https://kfor.com/2018/06/09/amazon-announces-plan-to-open-second-fulfillment-center-in-oklahoma/

Those bids submitted for Amazon's 2nd HQ may have paid dividends for many cities throughout the United States.

[Laramie]

Lariat Landing is a 2,000 acre development track on the 8,000 acres where OKC's Will Rogers World Airport (WRWA) is located.  The airport will complete almost $200 million in expansion from 2000 come 2020; increase in passengers (arrivals/departure) with future terminals designed to eventually handle more flights.

Amazon's Fulfillment Center progress; above graphs & pics above via OKCTalk. 

The footprint of the warehouse will be 640,000 square feet with three upper levels, bringing the total size of the facility to a staggering 2.5 million square feet.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Would love to see some form of rapid transit between our cities.  Potential game-changer for development that could be shared 45 miles from each city to the mid point of the Turner Turnpike.

Would love to have a train!   Would be absolute perfection for my travels...