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August 23, 2019, 04:06:23 pm
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Author Topic: Giant Video Billboard at 41st & Yale  (Read 4764 times)
patric
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« on: August 12, 2018, 10:42:32 am »

"Title 42 Tulsa Revised Ordinances
Zoning and Property Restrictions

Section 60.100 Dynamic Displays

60.100-A The images and messages displayed on a dynamic display must have a minimum dwell time of at least 8 seconds and may not contain any movement, animation, audio, video, pyrotechnics or other special effects."


There's much more, but that alone should have stopped the construction of a full-motion video billboard anywhere in the city of Tulsa.

Coming over the hill on Yale Avenue past the OU campus is a bright TV screen that steals your attention.  Its full-motion video like you are at the Admiral Twin except you are in busy traffic, and by every indication is way way out of code.

KJRH is reporting that the Muscogee (Creek) Nation leased some tribal land to Gordon Outdoor Advertising, whose owner said he spent three years securing this property for his billboard. "The billboard owner said he went through all the proper channels, but wouldn't share the details."
https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/midtown-video-billboard-draws-controversy-raises-questions-about-approval-process

Imagine someone building a pig farm in midtown and promising the smell would only affect their property.

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swake
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2018, 11:09:35 am »

"Title 42 Tulsa Revised Ordinances
Zoning and Property Restrictions

Section 60.100 Dynamic Displays

60.100-A The images and messages displayed on a dynamic display must have a minimum dwell time of at least 8 seconds and may not contain any movement, animation, audio, video, pyrotechnics or other special effects."


There's much more, but that alone should have stopped the construction of a full-motion video billboard anywhere in the city of Tulsa.

Coming over the hill on Yale Avenue past the OU campus is a bright TV screen that steals your attention.  Its full-motion video like you are at the Admiral Twin except you are in busy traffic, and by every indication is way way out of code.

KJRH is reporting that the Muscogee (Creek) Nation leased some tribal land to Gordon Outdoor Advertising, whose owner said he spent three years securing this property for his billboard. "The billboard owner said he went through all the proper channels, but wouldn't share the details."
https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/midtown-video-billboard-draws-controversy-raises-questions-about-approval-process

Imagine someone building a pig farm in midtown and promising the smell would only affect their property.



Do Tulsa ordinances apply?
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Muscogee (Creek) Nation leased some tribal land to Gordon Outdoor Advertising
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2018, 11:18:47 am »

Asset? That made me shoot coffee out my nose. At one time that was residential and there was a house on that lot in the late 60's. (aerial view from 1967)

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patric
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2018, 12:06:47 pm »

Do Tulsa ordinances apply?

Perhaps not outright.  Even though it is on a sliver of "tribal land" its operation affects the public safety of land not owned by the Creeks, and the city is compelled to act on that to protect its citizens.

There are questions that must be asked:
Did the builder intend to skirt city law when he chose the site?  
Are utilities required to provide services and infrastructure to tribal land (even if that land would be considered nonconforming or detrimental to the surrounding jurisdiction)?
...and who were the "proper channels" that said this was ok?
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swake
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2018, 12:15:57 pm »

Perhaps not outright.  Even though it is on a sliver of "tribal land" its operation affects the public safety of land not owned by the Creeks, and the city is compelled to act on that to protect its citizens.

There are questions that must be asked:
Did the builder intend to skirt city law when he chose the site?  
Are utilities required to provide services and infrastructure to tribal land (even if that land would be considered nonconforming or detrimental to the surrounding jurisdiction)?
...and who were the "proper channels" that said this was ok?


You seriously want to go down the path of denying utilities to tribal land because you don't like what is built there?
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patric
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2018, 01:26:13 pm »

You seriously want to go down the path of denying utilities to tribal land because you don't like what is built there?

Interesting angle.  Would a solution be more like a sanction against businesses that seek to skirt the law, if that is what happened?
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swake
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2018, 04:04:21 pm »

Interesting angle.  Would a solution be more like a sanction against businesses that seek to skirt the law, if that is what happened?

I'm not sure about the status of this land in particular, but if it is reserved/trust tribal land then the site isn't legally in Tulsa and only Federal and Creek Nation laws would apply. There's no Tulsa zoning law to skirt because the site legally is Creek National land, not Tulsa or even Oklahoma. I'm sure that's how and why this site was chosen based on the article and the issues you are bringing up. Your appeal to apply zoning would then have to go to the Creek Nation.
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Conan71
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2018, 04:10:38 pm »

I thought this was the property where they were wanting to put in a smoke shop, correct?
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patric
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« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2018, 04:45:36 pm »

I thought this was the property where they were wanting to put in a smoke shop, correct?


KJRH: The Muscogee (Creek) Nation said it was aware of the lease on the land, but the process doesn’t go through them.

KOTV:  The neighbors were first concerned when it was cleared off for a smoke shop but that was never built.
A fireworks stand later appeared on the property but it never opened and the property was fenced off marked as "federal land" now this week it's the site of a billboard.
http://www.newson6.com/story/38861103/billboard-placed-near-tulsa-neighborhood-has-residents-angry

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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2018, 05:00:22 pm »

So a 1/4 acre lot is considered tribal/federal land out of the whole area because it's leased to the Creek Nation? Or is more of that area "tribal land"? Sounds like a new version of "imminent domain" the tribe is paying for the land so they can do what they want. Sounds really fishy.

Property details

http://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R02075932102470&return=close
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 05:19:32 pm by dbacksfan 2.0 » Logged
swake
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« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2018, 05:30:07 pm »

So a 1/4 acre lot is considered tribal/federal land out of the whole area because it's leased to the Creek Nation? Or is more of that area "tribal land"? Sounds like a new version of "imminent domain" the tribe is paying for the land so they can do what they want. Sounds really fishy.
Let's not forget that all of Eastern Oklahoma is tribal land. All of Tulsa south of Admiral is in the Creek Nation.

The land can't be leased, The Creek Nation, or a tribal citizen, has to own the land and the land has to be within the National Area of the Creek Nation. The national area of the tribe being the borders of the former Creek reservation in Indian Territory, which was was basically stolen from the tribe via allotment by the Dawes Act in the early 20th century as Oklahoma became a state. The Creek reservation here being the land that was given to the tribe when their land in Georgia and Alabama was stolen in the 1820s and they were sent to die on the trail of tears by the dude that we still have on the $20 bill for some reason.

Anyway, back to this plot of land, The Creek Nation, or a citizen, would have to own it and then the tribe would file with the BIA for the land to placed in Trust or Reserved Status with the federal government. Meaning that the land then is federal land held in Trust ownership on behalf of the sovereign Creek Nation and/or it's people as per federal laws regarding and treaties with the Creek Nation.

I do not know how Tulsa County would handle the sale and placing in reserved status of a piece of land. Tulsa County would no longer receive any taxes from that land so the assessor has nothing to assess. The County would no longer have any authority or jurisdiction over that land. I do remember when The Creek Nation bought Riverwalk in Jenks they gave the city a few million dollars so they wouldn't fight Riverwalk being placed in reserved status, which would mean that Jenks would get no taxes from Riverwalk. I now am not actually sure the tribe has ever put Riverwalk in reserved status, but they could. Riverspirit Casino obviously is reserved land.That's why you see Creek Nation Lighthorse Police there instead of TPD.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 05:41:07 pm by swake » Logged
dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2018, 06:07:29 pm »

Let's not forget that all of Eastern Oklahoma is tribal land. All of Tulsa south of Admiral is in the Creek Nation.

The land can't be leased, The Creek Nation, or a tribal citizen, has to own the land and the land has to be within the National Area of the Creek Nation. The national area of the tribe being the borders of the former Creek reservation in Indian Territory, which was was basically stolen from the tribe via allotment by the Dawes Act in the early 20th century as Oklahoma became a state. The Creek reservation here being the land that was given to the tribe when their land in Georgia and Alabama was stolen in the 1820s and they were sent to die on the trail of tears by the dude that we still have on the $20 bill for some reason.

Yes, I remember my Oklahoma History at Whitney Jr. High. I wasn't try to dispute that. You could say the same for most of the US.

Quote
Anyway, back to this plot of land, The Creek Nation, or a citizen, would have to own it and then the tribe would file with the BIA for the land to placed in Trust or Reserved Status with the federal government. Meaning that the land then is federal land held in Trust ownership on behalf of the sovereign Creek Nation and/or it's people as per federal laws regarding and treaties with the Creek Nation.

I do not know how Tulsa County would handle the sale and placing in reserved status of a piece of land. Tulsa County would no longer receive any taxes from that land so the assessor has nothing to assess. The County would no longer have any authority or jurisdiction over that land. I do remember when The Creek Nation bought Riverwalk in Jenks they gave the city a few million dollars so they wouldn't fight Riverwalk being placed in reserved status, which would mean that Jenks would get no taxes from Riverwalk. I now am not actually sure the tribe has ever put Riverwalk in reserved status, but they could. Riverspirit Casino obviously is reserved land.That's why you see Creek Nation Lighthorse Police there instead of TPD.

It seems, according to the assessor's info that it was purchased in 2015 by  MICHELLE WOLF VOICE and the mailing address is
C/O MUSKOGEE CREEK NATION REALTY
PO BOX 580
OKMULGEE, OK 74447

and no taxes were paid last year, and doesn't appear to be any for this year. So it appears that it is Tribal land, so I guess they can use it as they see fit. I disagree with the billboard, but that's my opinion.
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patric
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« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2018, 06:31:49 pm »

and no taxes were paid last year, and doesn't appear to be any for this year. So it appears that it is Tribal land, so I guess they can use it as they see fit. I disagree with the billboard, but that's my opinion.

They could have hazardous waste trucked there for incineration, or a deep-injection well, or a carcass-rendering facility, all of which would affect the surrounding community but who would have no recourse than to just "get used to it?"

Where would a line be drawn, and who could do it?
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 06:37:02 pm »

They could have hazardous waste trucked there for incineration, or a deep-injection well, or a carcass-rendering facility, all of which would affect the surrounding community but who would have no recourse than to just "get used to it?"

Where would a line be drawn, and who could do it?

I don't think there is an answer, you would like to think common sense would figure in there somewhere, but we all know that doesn't happen. Best answer, follow the money.
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swake
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 09:13:10 pm »

They could have hazardous waste trucked there for incineration, or a deep-injection well, or a carcass-rendering facility, all of which would affect the surrounding community but who would have no recourse than to just "get used to it?"

Where would a line be drawn, and who could do it?

All federal laws still apply. Beyond that, it would depend on the Creek Nation's laws.
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