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November 17, 2017, 04:55:57 pm
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2017, 04:24:37 pm »

Good to see him try.  Won't happen though.  Seattle people are all too aware of our national reputation for everything from lack of support for education to traffic inhibition with turnpikes.  And dozens more things in between.

Lack of infrastructure support in general - water in particular.  We are in a bind right now for water.  If our state population was to surge (we certainly don't have an extra 50,000 people sitting around waiting for Amazon to come to town), the influx of even a fraction of that number, with families, would put us in a bind that would take many years from which to recover.  And where are we gonna get $5 billion extra just to bring them in, especially since we can't even figure out how to fix a relatively tiny $500 million state budget problem.

It's not aiming for the kneecaps - it is a recognition of reality.

I am gonna guess Raleigh.  It's the other end of the country, letting them straddle the US.

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

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swake
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« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2017, 06:47:11 pm »

Maybe for once our parking crater can be a positive.
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BKDotCom
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« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2017, 07:09:37 pm »

Seattle people are all too aware of our national reputation ...

... something about taking their Sonics basketball team...
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Conan71
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« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2017, 10:59:15 pm »

Good to see him try.  Won't happen though.  Seattle people are all too aware of our national reputation for everything from lack of support for education to traffic inhibition with turnpikes.  And dozens more things in between.

Lack of infrastructure support in general - water in particular.  We are in a bind right now for water.  If our state population was to surge (we certainly don't have an extra 50,000 people sitting around waiting for Amazon to come to town), the influx of even a fraction of that number, with families, would put us in a bind that would take many years from which to recover.  And where are we gonna get $5 billion extra just to bring them in, especially since we can't even figure out how to fix a relatively tiny $500 million state budget problem.

It's not aiming for the kneecaps - it is a recognition of reality.

I am gonna guess Raleigh.  It's the other end of the country, letting them straddle the US.



What's the issue with water? I wasn't aware there was a problem.
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guido911
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« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2017, 11:29:51 pm »

For God's sake please do not refer Amazon to this website. No one in their right mind would move to Oklahoma if they read what Oklahomans post about their own state.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2017, 08:29:57 am »

... something about taking their Sonics basketball team...


That's just the smallest part of it.  I have family and quite a few friends there.  Several from here.  The 'good news' about Oklahoma has spread.

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2017, 08:34:06 am »

For God's sake please do not refer Amazon to this website. No one in their right mind would move to Oklahoma if they read what Oklahomans post about their own state.


They already know about Oklahoma.  They have had a large distribution center in Coffeyville, KS for many years!   That is only about 20 miles from Nowata.  Don't think for a second they didn't look here already and for whatever reason, went 20 miles away instead.

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
erfalf
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« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2017, 08:38:11 am »


They already know about Oklahoma.  They have had a large distribution center in Coffeyville, KS for many years!   That is only about 20 miles from Nowata.  Don't think for a second they didn't look here already and for whatever reason, went 20 miles away instead.



You know that facility existed prior to Amazon right? And it's closed now. It was built for Golden Books in 78. There are several large facilities up there that go through a carousal of new ownership every so many years.  Kind of a non sequitur in my opinion as I don't think it really says anything about what Amazon thinks about Oklahoma.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 08:40:43 am by erfalf » Logged

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2017, 08:39:33 am »

What's the issue with water? I wasn't aware there was a problem.


Just the ongoing cycles of drought.  Aggravated by the long running fight by OKC to try to take the Native American water from southeast OK.  We have adequate water for the level of activity we have now, but if you suddenly add couple hundred thousand people and their 'stuff' to any area in OK, it's gonna be a problem.   Add to the mix the fact that many of the wells in central OK, exemplified by Norman, have become unusable, we are moving to a water problem rather quickly.  And if Baja Oklahoma (aka Tejas) keeps 'lawsuiting' us to get OK water, and succeed at some point, we are in deep caca.

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2017, 08:40:06 am »

You know that facility existed prior to Amazon right? It was built for Golden Books in 78. There are several large facilities up there that go through a carousal of new ownership every so many years.  Kind of a non sequitur in my opinion as I don't think it really says anything about what Amazon thinks about Oklahoma.


Yeah.  But Amazon chose to go there.  Instead of here.

Existing building is good, but not the biggest factor.  Especially for them.  Since they are gonna spend like drunken sailors on the new place.



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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
erfalf
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« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2017, 08:42:56 am »


Yeah.  But Amazon chose to go there.  Instead of here.




I still think it came down to availability, price, and location (being in this part of the country that is). I'm sure they were able to work out a pretty good deal as Coffeyville has been pretty desperate to fill that thing up with working people.

The fact that it was just outside of Oklahoma is a coincidence. It's in the region they were looking for logistics.

I know it is difficult for you not to degrade Oklahoma, but there are valid reasons, this just isn't one.

A little context as to how desperate the owners of that facility in Coffeyville might have been.

http://www.kansas.com/news/business/article138866273.html
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 08:50:35 am by erfalf » Logged

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erfalf
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« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2017, 08:45:42 am »

Just to add another thing, Amazon is currently constructing a 300,000 square foot "sorting center" in Oklahoma City.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2017, 09:20:20 am »

Just to add another thing, Amazon is currently constructing a 300,000 square foot "sorting center" in Oklahoma City.


That is good news.   There has been something in OKC for a while - no idea exactly what - that the boy would haul freight to/from.  He would go from Coffeyville to OKC, drop trailers and then go back to Coffeyville for more.  Then another truck took some of the trailers to Dallas area.  That went on for years, until about 6 years ago.


May have to talk to Coffeyville.  They want $13 ft2 for that warehouse.  I could use that space.... 20 acres under roof would be pretty good place to have a little manufacturing facility....

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
DowntownDan
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« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2017, 09:56:58 am »

I don't get the "shooting for the kneecaps" instead of stars mentality of a lot of Tulsans.  Dare to dream.  Tulsa w/ Stillwater/OKC/Norman would be an ideal site for a summer Olympics. The theme would be "Native America" - the opening ceremony would be unforgettable. Atlanta's Olympics was spread out over a wider land area than an all-Oklahoma Olympics would be.  It seems like a lot of people who live here go on vacation to Colorado or have 2nd homes elsewhere and are happy to keep Tulsa as it is. Cozy and comfortable.  Why shouldn't we think we can do a hell of a lot more. Low self-esteem? Everybody thought Atlanta was a non-starter when some dedicated people who wouldn't take no for an answer made it happen.  If not for the 3 mayors of OKC plus Nichols, McClendon and a few others, nothing would have happened there probably.  I'll bet if Amazon was to build a massive facility here, we'd have international air travel. Too much thinking small here.  Shoot as high as possible and then maybe you'll get something better than shooting for the kneecaps.   

Amazon and the Olympics are polar opposites.  Amazon would be a massive economic boon.  Would add permanent long term jobs and facilities.  The Olympics are guaranteed economic losers and would leave us with unused facilities, like most Olympic cities in recent years.  The Olympics was a dumb idea because even if we had a chance, it would be a terrible thing for the city.  We have a slightly better chance at Amazon (.0001% vs. .001%) but Amazon would be transformative longterm for the city in a positive way.   
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DowntownDan
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« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2017, 10:02:19 am »


Just the ongoing cycles of drought.  Aggravated by the long running fight by OKC to try to take the Native American water from southeast OK.  We have adequate water for the level of activity we have now, but if you suddenly add couple hundred thousand people and their 'stuff' to any area in OK, it's gonna be a problem.   Add to the mix the fact that many of the wells in central OK, exemplified by Norman, have become unusable, we are moving to a water problem rather quickly.  And if Baja Oklahoma (aka Tejas) keeps 'lawsuiting' us to get OK water, and succeed at some point, we are in deep caca.



I'm pretty sure the influx of new people (50K employees means 100K+ new people when accounting for families) is the reason they are looking only at metros of 1million+, and which takes us out of the running right off the bat.  It's not a transformative change for metros like Dallas, Atlanta, and even Denver, but it would be a huge change for Tulsa, and they don't want to take a chance that we can't handle it.  They want a "turnkey" city that doesn't require massive risky changes.  Same with our airport.  DFW and ATL can serve exactly what they need, TUL would require an overhaul in routes.   Too risky for them.  Again, Im all for making the bid though.  You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

The more I've read about this, I'm changing my prediction from Austin to D.C./Northern VA.  Austin has their own deficiencies, while D.C./Northern VA checks all of the boxes.
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