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October 20, 2018, 04:30:57 pm
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patric
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« Reply #255 on: February 27, 2018, 02:35:00 pm »


The wooing has already started...


Lets send G.T.
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
erfalf
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« Reply #256 on: February 27, 2018, 03:07:03 pm »

Can you imagine the bidding war for the Delta HQ and hub? Beyond the jobs, overnight a city would have connections to every major market in the world for all their other companies, and future companies. The bidding war would be immense.

See the mid cities area of Dallas for a prime example of what happens.
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« Reply #257 on: February 27, 2018, 04:49:51 pm »

Phoenix, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Columbus and even cities like Tulsa and OKC would go all out to get Delta. 

And there are cities like Memphis, Nashville and St Louis that have airports that USED to be major hubs and easily could be again and badly want to be again.

Georgia is playing with fire to win points with gun nuts.
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rebound
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« Reply #258 on: February 27, 2018, 06:14:13 pm »

Phoenix, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Columbus and even cities like Tulsa and OKC would go all out to get Delta. 

And there are cities like Memphis, Nashville and St Louis that have airports that USED to be major hubs and easily could be again and badly want to be again.

Georgia is playing with fire to win points with gun nuts.


Memphis would be a perfect relocation.   Delta started in Monroe, LA (Not quite the Mississippi Delta, but more fitting than Atlanta).    I was doing some work for ASA several years ago in Monroe, and was in one of the original hangers.

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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #259 on: February 28, 2018, 08:32:53 am »

I'm generally in agreement with your statement but it is beneficial to the people who end up with high paying jobs with full benefits even though they may be shafted as a taxpayer by the corporate welfare.  I doubt that is on their mind when they are going through the hiring process and I doubt many people fail to apply because it offends their civic principles.

In my day job (I'm not quite sure which one that is anymore since I have so many titles now) I have to mentally balance what is good for business and my obligations to the company I represent vs. when I think a project is sticking it to the tax payers because of unnecessary items put into bid packages or when I think the government is pissing money into infrastructure it doesn't need to or putting it in the right places.

I cannot really blame the company actors (let alone employees), they are acting in their best interest according to the rules laid out. If the government ever decided to give me piles of cash to help towards making myself wealthier, I'd take it.  I'd then demand more in a few years (out of gratitude).

And of course the people who get a solid job out of the deal are happy about it., but that doesn't make it an economically productive venture in a micro or macro sense.  A bank robbery is very profitable for the crook, but that doesn't make it a productive activity overall.   

Companies are generally rational actors motivated by the prospect of making money.  If producing more widget will make them more money, then they need a new or larger widget factory.  That factory will be built where it is economically advantageous and convenient.    Handing over tax payer money might change the math on where the plant will be located (studies suggest it doesn't have the impact we assume), but it rarely decides IF a plant will be built.  As a whole, the economy loses out by inefficiently transferring wealth from the masses to areas of concentration (generally large companies).  Every city that doesn't "win" loses out, the vast majority of tax payers in the "winning" city also lose, business in competition with the recipient of tax payer money lose out, and small businesses that don't have the political muscle to extort cash from governments lose out.  Many, many small losers - and a few very vocal, happy, and wealthy winners who want to do everything they can to keep the benefits flowing to them.

So it's hard for individual governments so stop playing the game. It's the prisoners dilemma of economics... we all win if we all stop playing.  Instead it is getting worse and billions more each year are handed over.  If we don't act together, then those willing to sell out the hardest might "win" and we all lose.  Hence, an agreement or rule to stop the game would be a good idea.

https://www.citylab.com/life/2017/03/business-tax-incentives-waste/518754/
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« Reply #260 on: February 28, 2018, 09:35:48 am »

Can you imagine the bidding war for the Delta HQ and hub? Beyond the jobs, overnight a city would have connections to every major market in the world for all their other companies, and future companies. The bidding war would be immense.

Or not.  Even IF Delta were to move its HQ, their Atlanta hub is not going anywhere.  (and of course, the chances of a HQ move are about the same as Tulsa's chances in the Amazon sweepstakes.)
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patric
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« Reply #261 on: March 01, 2018, 04:25:38 pm »

Or not.  Even IF Delta were to move its HQ, their Atlanta hub is not going anywhere.  (and of course, the chances of a HQ move are about the same as Tulsa's chances in the Amazon sweepstakes.)

How the NRA fight between Delta and Georgia could roil Atlanta's Amazon headquarters bid
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2018/03/01/amazon-second-headquarters-atlanta-nra-georgia-delta-airlines-gun-control/382331002/
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
patric
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« Reply #262 on: March 02, 2018, 11:30:38 am »

“Corporations cannot attack conservatives and expect us not to fight back.” (Notice how he defines an attack: no longer offering a special discount.)

Cagle... sought to punish a business for declining to associate with a political organization, and he did so by changing his position on a tax bill. He abused his power and decided policy based on factors other than the public interest, in order to help the NRA. It’s a disturbing precedent—and if he’s rewarded for it politically, others may follow his lead.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/a-georgia-republicans-unethical-revenge-plot/554711/

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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
erfalf
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« Reply #263 on: March 15, 2018, 09:08:57 am »

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/15/not-welcome-here-amazon-faces-growing-resistance-to-its-second-home

Figured it was a matter of time before this line of thought got some traction. Particularly after everyone has actually had to fairly assess what comes with all those glorious jobs Amazon will be bringing.
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« Reply #264 on: March 15, 2018, 11:03:21 am »

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/15/not-welcome-here-amazon-faces-growing-resistance-to-its-second-home

Figured it was a matter of time before this line of thought got some traction. Particularly after everyone has actually had to fairly assess what comes with all those glorious jobs Amazon will be bringing.

That is an interesting article, but here is the money quote on the likely effect of this small movement:

"Despite the breadth of the opposition to Amazon among academics and community activists, however, just four elected officials from finalist cities have signed on to the non-aggression pact."

Maybe Richard Florida is correct and that politicians who support all those tax incentives in the winning city will pay an electoral price, but I think it is highly unlikely except maybe in a unique city like D.C.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #265 on: April 25, 2018, 09:49:26 am »

Quote
Sources: Tulsa in discussions with Amazon to construct distribution center

The city of Tulsa is negotiating with Amazon to construct a distribution center in the Tulsa metropolitan area, according to multiple sources familiar with the discussions.

The Tulsa World agreed to grant the sources anonymity as they were not authorized to discuss the development publicly.

Discussions have focused on multiple possible sites, including one that is outside the city limits, sources said.



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A primary site of interest is an 82-acre property on the southwest corner of 43th Street North and 126th East Avenue. The property is approximately two miles east of Tulsa International Airport and next to the new QuikTrip distribution center.

A preliminary site plan presented to the city identifies the development property as “Project Dylan” and shows the footprint of the building to be 640,000 square feet. The site plan also shows hundreds of automobile parking spaces on the west side of the building and hundreds of truck parking spaces on the south and east sides of the building, as well as loading docks.

The property owner is listed as Greenhill Properties, LLC, of Tulsa.

The city of Tulsa and the Tulsa Regional Chamber of Commerce declined to comment Tuesday.

Amazon did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Tulsa was one of 238 cities and areas across North America that submitted applications to become home to Amazon’s second headquarters, commonly known as HQ2.

Tulsa was not selected as a finalist, and the Tulsa Regional Chamber has refused to release the city’s application. However, Mayor G.T. Bynum has said the city proposed building the headquarters on city-owned property on the west bank of the Arkansas River at 23rd Street and Jackson Avenue.

The Oklahoman last week reported that Amazon was in discussions with Oklahoma City officials to build a “multistory fulfillment center warehouse” near Will Rogers World Airport.

The facility, if constructed, would represent a $100 million investment and produce more than 2,000 jobs, according to sources who spoke with The Oklahoman.

A fulfillment center is where items ordered online are gathered by workers, packaged and shipped.

The sources who spoke to the Tulsa World could not confirm what type of distribution center Amazon would build in Tulsa if the deal went through.

In 2013, the Tulsa Regional Chamber worked with state, city and county officials to put together an incentives package that led Macy’s to build a fulfillment center on 72 acres east of U.S. 75 on 76th Street North.

The 1.3 million-square-foot facility opened in 2015 and has consistently employed more than 1,000 full-time equivalent employees and thousands of seasonal workers.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/sources-tulsa-in-discussions-with-amazon-to-construct-distribution-center/article_c0fab4af-a017-51b1-bdaa-d94418e62df6.html
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TeeDub
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« Reply #266 on: April 25, 2018, 10:08:23 am »


Didn't they just agree to put one in OKC?    Do they put them that close together?

http://kfor.com/2018/04/17/report-amazon-to-bring-fulfillment-center-to-oklahoma-city/



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Cats Cats Cats
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« Reply #267 on: April 25, 2018, 10:36:07 am »

Didn't they just agree to put one in OKC?    Do they put them that close together?

http://kfor.com/2018/04/17/report-amazon-to-bring-fulfillment-center-to-oklahoma-city/

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #268 on: April 25, 2018, 11:31:41 am »

Haven't been by the Coffeyville center for a couple years, but Amazon announced in 2014 they were closing it, getting rid of about 900 jobs.

The incentives ran out, and so did they...!
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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
TeeDub
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« Reply #269 on: April 25, 2018, 02:13:27 pm »

Haven't been by the Coffeyville center for a couple years, but Amazon announced in 2014 they were closing it, getting rid of about 900 jobs.

The incentives ran out, and so did they...!


http://www.kansas.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article2411676.html

Apparently they ran out 5 years after the incentives...   And turned down new ones.   Oh wait, those facts don't fit your agenda.   Go ahead, spin it whichever way you want.
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