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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #210 on: January 23, 2018, 03:33:11 pm »

I disagree. I think it would be brilliant and open up development with beautiful views of the skyline and river.

My daughter plays on the west bank soccer fields and I just think that that part of west Tulsa could be a gold mine.

Just think what it would do for the whole area.

Just imagine the land conversion.
 

I can't imagine it doing much more than the existing 2 bridges within a mile or two of there haven't done already. As I said, I can only imagine something happening with a corrupt mayor trying to get their buddies a sweet contract to build on free land and it ends up being subpar apartments.

Bridges don't magically produce development. The area around the 23rd street bridge is still a terrible wasteland where no one wants to live while just across the river is mansions and beautiful areas. If a bridge will help so much, why hasn't it helped at all at 23rd? Surely some investor would've come in and taken advantage by now.

The best thing that stretch has going for it on the west side is that it remains mostly trees.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #211 on: January 23, 2018, 03:52:49 pm »


Bridges don't magically produce development. The area around the 23rd street bridge is still a terrible wasteland where no one wants to live while just across the river is mansions and beautiful areas. If a bridge will help so much, why hasn't it helped at all at 23rd? Surely some investor would've come in and taken advantage by now.

The best thing that stretch has going for it on the west side is that it remains mostly trees.


Then why did we build 71st street bridge if it wasn't to produce development? 

And industrial development IS development.  There is already a sizable industrial area on west 41st that would be impacted by a bridge/road going through.  Not sure if it would be a good impact on those places...   And I think Angie's wish would quite possibly be one of those "careful what you wish for" things...Redfork is a nice little area - I have spent a lot of time there over the years, both working and visiting friends and I like the 'comfortable' feel of the place.  I think a bridge would change it and not for the better for the people who live there now.


We took a drive over the weekend, starting at Ollie's and going west on 41st as far as we could, through Prattville, then on to Campbell Creek Rd, and Coyote Trail.  Ended up east of Mannford, stopped for a bit to look at the lake on 263rd W Ave, then saw an eagle sitting in a tree on the way back.  Beautiful ride and when you get past Redfork, it feels like you have traveled to another place and time...another state?  Or what Oklahoma used to be...   There is a lot of room for "development" out there, and I think it would be unfortunate if it happened.

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

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Conan71
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« Reply #212 on: January 23, 2018, 05:31:00 pm »


Then why did we build 71st street bridge if it wasn't to produce development? 

And industrial development IS development.  There is already a sizable industrial area on west 41st that would be impacted by a bridge/road going through.  Not sure if it would be a good impact on those places...   And I think Angie's wish would quite possibly be one of those "careful what you wish for" things...Redfork is a nice little area - I have spent a lot of time there over the years, both working and visiting friends and I like the 'comfortable' feel of the place.  I think a bridge would change it and not for the better for the people who live there now.


We took a drive over the weekend, starting at Ollie's and going west on 41st as far as we could, through Prattville, then on to Campbell Creek Rd, and Coyote Trail.  Ended up east of Mannford, stopped for a bit to look at the lake on 263rd W Ave, then saw an eagle sitting in a tree on the way back.  Beautiful ride and when you get past Redfork, it feels like you have traveled to another place and time...another state?  Or what Oklahoma used to be...   There is a lot of room for "development" out there, and I think it would be unfortunate if it happened.



Having officed at 41st & Jackson for 12 or so years, my best guess is there are perhaps 500-700 workers in the industrial area from Elwood to US 75, Cherry Creek on the south to the refinery grounds to the north.  It's not that densely populated.  I could see a benefit to it and I would have used it rather than the expressways as I never cared much for hopping on the BA or I-44 to get to work.  In the scheme of existing infrastructure which has long been ignored an investment in this bridge would be rather extravagant at this point.  I get Angie's point and other's that west siders have long felt like they have been cut off from the rest of Tulsa forever and this would lend a sense of connectedness to the east side.
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« Reply #213 on: January 23, 2018, 11:25:42 pm »

I think it would help to connect the West side to the rest of Tulsa more than any other thing.  I find myself lost and disoriented when taking the highway over there. 71st ends into a neighborhood or you end up on highway 75 which is not "connected" to the west side of Tulsa but whisks you past Jenks or towards Downtown.  There just needs to be a connection to a more familiar, "Tulsa grid" that goes somewhere. 41st would go straight on through for quite a ways and easily lead to a lot of development potential over there.  Seems like many of the other east-west roads end or curve around and lead you to lord only knows where in rather short order, and you then start thinking "I don't know where I am, don't know where I am going and the only way to get back is to find an on ramp to some gawd awful highway that will lead me back to the other side!" 
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« Reply #214 on: January 23, 2018, 11:33:35 pm »

I anticipate the folks on 41st Street east of the river fighting a bridge as much as the folks on south Yale fighting the bridge to Bixby.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #215 on: January 24, 2018, 08:55:31 am »

I think it would help to connect the West side to the rest of Tulsa more than any other thing.  I find myself lost and disoriented when taking the highway over there. 71st ends into a neighborhood or you end up on highway 75 which is not "connected" to the west side of Tulsa but whisks you past Jenks or towards Downtown.  There just needs to be a connection to a more familiar, "Tulsa grid" that goes somewhere. 41st would go straight on through for quite a ways and easily lead to a lot of development potential over there.  Seems like many of the other east-west roads end or curve around and lead you to lord only knows where in rather short order, and you then start thinking "I don't know where I am, don't know where I am going and the only way to get back is to find an on ramp to some gawd awful highway that will lead me back to the other side!" 


This disorientation was kinda what I was talking about with my comment above about feeling like another time/place. 

And that may not be a bad thing - I worked in Redfork as a teenager doing some commercial construction work, then a few decades later in the same building doing some engineering work.  The tile I laid in about 1967 was still there and good shape and the concrete floor section I replaced wasn't even cracked or anything!  Used every day!   

Leading to... it can be a little confusing getting around there if you don't go through every day.  Not a bad thing - change has been slower there.   There is a shell across from Ollie's that I would love to have to rebuild into a little wood shop!  Being close to Tulsa Stove Hospital wouldn't be too bad either.  I like going in there just to look around some...
 

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
DowntownDan
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« Reply #216 on: January 24, 2018, 09:07:18 am »

I disagree. I think it would be brilliant and open up development with beautiful views of the skyline and river.

My daughter plays on the west bank soccer fields and I just think that that part of west Tulsa could be a gold mine.

Just think what it would do for the whole area.

Webster High School would become closer than Edison High School for Maple Ridgers.

Just imagine the land conversion.
 

Why does that land need to be converted?  It's doing fine as an industrial area.  What would be the purpose of a multi-million dollar shortcut to Riverside Drive?  I suspect access to US75 is more important to them.  Not every area needs restaurants apartments and retail.  The west bank on 23rd Street has immensely more potential, with better views of both the downtown skyline and the Gathering Place, and still sits undeveloped.  There is so much to be done around existing infrastructure.   A multi-million dollar bridge at 41st is the last thing we need.  If there is extra money, lets improve on the plan to rebuild the pedestrian bridge or convert the old Route 66 bridge to a "Highline" type park.  
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AngieB
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« Reply #217 on: January 24, 2018, 09:22:03 am »

Why does that land need to be converted?  It's doing fine as an industrial area.  What would be the purpose of a multi-million dollar shortcut to Riverside Drive?  I suspect access to US75 is more important to them.  Not every area needs restaurants apartments and retail.  The west bank on 23rd Street has immensely more potential, with better views of both the downtown skyline and the Gathering Place, and still sits undeveloped.  There is so much to be done around existing infrastructure.   A multi-million dollar bridge at 41st is the last thing we need.  If there is extra money, lets improve on the plan to rebuild the pedestrian bridge or convert the old Route 66 bridge to a "Highline" type park.  

I wonder how your opinion might change if you lived on the westside. Hmm?
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #218 on: January 24, 2018, 09:25:57 am »

Why does that land need to be converted?  It's doing fine as an industrial area.  What would be the purpose of a multi-million dollar shortcut to Riverside Drive?  I suspect access to US75 is more important to them.  Not every area needs restaurants apartments and retail.  The west bank on 23rd Street has immensely more potential, with better views of both the downtown skyline and the Gathering Place, and still sits undeveloped.  There is so much to be done around existing infrastructure.   A multi-million dollar bridge at 41st is the last thing we need.  If there is extra money, lets improve on the plan to rebuild the pedestrian bridge or convert the old Route 66 bridge to a "Highline" type park.  



Big problem with 23rd is the huge toxic waste "dump" surrounding the place from the 100 years of oil refineries and heavy metal industrial.   The ground is loaded with 100 years of spills, messes, leaks, and intentional pouring of oil on the ground.  Not gonna be easy or cheap to clean it up.  And if ya just pave it over, as we are wont to do as a species, the problem is just hidden till the concrete breaks up and needs replacing.

There was a time for quite a few years when Sun Oil and it's predecessors were actually pouring oil on large areas of there facility as experiment to see if it could be used as fertilizer, without further processing.  Eventually that does decay and degrade and does have some small fertilizing effect.  Well, except for any heavy metals left behind...

And the dark color did help the soil warm up a little earlier in the spring, getting the plants to start growing sooner.  

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #219 on: January 24, 2018, 09:26:31 am »

I wonder how your opinion might change if you lived on the westside. Hmm?


He wouldn't do that...too undeveloped...

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
DowntownDan
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« Reply #220 on: January 24, 2018, 10:24:46 am »


He wouldn't do that...too undeveloped...



I certainly wouldn't live off of 41st on the west side because it's industrial without housing.  If I lived on the west side between 21st and 51st, I would use the 23rd or I-44 bridge to get across, like people have for decades.  Neither is onerous to get to since nobody lives more than a mile or two from those crossings.  A bridge at 41st would be a shortcut, and an extraordinarily expensive one, that isn't necessary.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #221 on: January 24, 2018, 11:57:36 am »

That's not true, there is actually a cool old neighborhood on W 41st once you get west of Hwy 75.  There is a wide range of housing, like the $35k to $135k range, and that pocket has its school, park, etc. and easy access to everywhere else.  Built up in the 1930s as a part of blue collar Red Fork - it used to have corner stores and everything else.   It's a fairly large pocket of housing, probably the largest on the West Side, with 41st cutting directly through it.  When I've been over there its pretty quiet.

Of course, the 41st St. bridge would only be a minor short cut to that area. Even if you were going to Riverside & 41st it might save 5 minutes.  Probably a break even to Brookside etc.  or just about anywhere else.  And it seems unlikely that the bridge would encourage redevelopment or reinvestment in the area.  

I'd guess if it was connected 80 years ago when the neighborhood was developing the entire development pattern might have been very different. The industry and waste water plants might not have built up along the river at this spot.   But at this point in time redevelopment of the chunk of land between the refinery/PSO, HWY 75, and Cherry Creek/44 would be a very tall order for a long list of reasons.  Least among them is a bridge at 41st.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 02:01:34 pm by cannon_fodder » Logged

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #222 on: January 24, 2018, 01:35:19 pm »

I certainly wouldn't live off of 41st on the west side because it's industrial without housing.  If I lived on the west side between 21st and 51st, I would use the 23rd or I-44 bridge to get across, like people have for decades.  Neither is onerous to get to since nobody lives more than a mile or two from those crossings.  A bridge at 41st would be a shortcut, and an extraordinarily expensive one, that isn't necessary.


I think the people of Redfork would be just a little bit surprised to hear that.  

Webster is tucked up in the north wedge formed by 244 and 75.  South for quite a ways are neighborhoods.  And then just west of 244, there are more.   Google Earth is your friend.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 01:37:29 pm by heironymouspasparagus » Logged

"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #223 on: January 24, 2018, 01:47:35 pm »

I wonder how your opinion might change if you lived on the westside. Hmm?

Very few people live in that section that is by the River that would benefit from the 41st bridge. The rest wouldn't benefit from it much. If I lived on the west side, I wouldn't care to add a bridge at that point. It wouldn't cut down on my drive to Brookside or anywhere else really. If I lived in that section like the other 50 people that do, I'd be up for a bridge but might not be happy if they turned all the woods into generic looking suburbs or apartments.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #224 on: January 24, 2018, 02:19:24 pm »

I wonder how your opinion might change if you lived on the westside. Hmm?


All the people who don't live there think it would not be of benefit.... I agree with you.

I guess since there are only 50 people in Redfork, they must be right!  (Deep sarcasm for anyone who didn't get it.)



Edit; there are about 20,000 people living in Redfork.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 02:26:29 pm by heironymouspasparagus » Logged

"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
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