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May 27, 2018, 11:34:17 am
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bacjz00
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« Reply #195 on: January 22, 2018, 10:12:37 pm »


Thanks for posting!  This is a great first step.  Not sure how/when this is all going to be feasible from a budgetary standpoint but it is needed desperately.  My only nitpick is that when it's done, I'm hoping there will be no need for one flyover ramp to COMPLETELY yield to another (i.e. EB I-44 to SB 75 meets WB I-44 to SB 75).  Hopefully there will be plenty of merging room to allow cars to continue to move at reasonable speeds.

Welcome to the 21st Century Oklahoma! (17 years later)
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #196 on: January 23, 2018, 08:24:13 am »

How would a bridge over 41st street encourage development of the west side of the river by 41st st?   The manufacturing that is there is already just a few blocks from a highway, manufacturing has very little interest in being connected to Brookside etc. or seeing more development. And being right next to the power plant and refinery (as well as highways and zoning, etc.) would make it difficult to sell that area as a redevelopment area for residential or an outlet mall.   Plus, I thought the power plant and refinery has been buying up property north of that area specifically to prevent development?  I get that it would add convenience to few hundred residence, but we are talking about a hundred million dollars for a bridge.

On the interchanges -

Clover leafs were a great design for a certain amount of traffic.  Economical, relatively compact, and efficient.  But when you try to push their limits on traffic count they fail rapidly.  44 and hwy 75, 44 and the BA, you see it all over.  When I'm in Texas those giant fly over bridges are very efficient, but I can't help but think they take up a ton of space and have to be very expensive... when they start having to pay to replace them I wonder if an alternative will emerge.  Or maybe I'm wrong on the expense...
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dsjeffries
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« Reply #197 on: January 23, 2018, 09:49:42 am »

On the interchanges -

Clover leafs were a great design for a certain amount of traffic.  Economical, relatively compact, and efficient.  But when you try to push their limits on traffic count they fail rapidly.  44 and hwy 75, 44 and the BA, you see it all over.  When I'm in Texas those giant fly over bridges are very efficient, but I can't help but think they take up a ton of space and have to be very expensive... when they start having to pay to replace them I wonder if an alternative will emerge.  Or maybe I'm wrong on the expense...

No, you're right. They're extremely expensive and require significant chunks of land.

Let's not turn everything here into a Dallas-style nightmare.
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« Reply #198 on: January 23, 2018, 11:22:49 am »

No, you're right. They're extremely expensive and require significant chunks of land.

Let's not turn everything here into a Dallas-style nightmare.


To be fair, alot of that roadway is service roads.

Yes, it will take land, but you can also make a hybrid that's partial clover/partial flyover.  Point I was making is the same as others...clover leafs work for a finite amount of traffic, of which all the interchanges I mentioned are likely pushing over.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #199 on: January 23, 2018, 12:10:50 pm »

How would a bridge over 41st street encourage development of the west side of the river by 41st st?   The manufacturing that is there is already just a few blocks from a highway, manufacturing has very little interest in being connected to Brookside etc. or seeing more development. And being right next to the power plant and refinery (as well as highways and zoning, etc.) would make it difficult to sell that area as a redevelopment area for residential or an outlet mall.   Plus, I thought the power plant and refinery has been buying up property north of that area specifically to prevent development?  I get that it would add convenience to few hundred residence, but we are talking about a hundred million dollars for a bridge.


A bridge at W 41st street is a ridiculous idea. It would be a monumental waste of money. There is nothing wrong with crossing at I44 or W 23rd. You're right, only a few hundred would really benefit.

I've made that trip many times (from W 41st to midtown Tulsa), and I would continue to use the highways or W 23rd even if there was a bridge. It wouldn't even save time on that trip. More importantly, as you said, it's not an area that will be develop-able into much more than industrial/commercial area any time soon, not even with a slightly more convenient drive to Brookside. And I guarantee you those in the Brookside area would be strongly opposed to a bridge right there! Those who live on the east side of the river near 21st aren't even happy with the existing bridge and the criminal activity that comes along with it.
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Conan71
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« Reply #200 on: January 23, 2018, 12:15:50 pm »

No, you're right. They're extremely expensive and require significant chunks of land.

Let's not turn everything here into a Dallas-style nightmare.


That almost has to be the interchange of US 75 and the LBJ.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #201 on: January 23, 2018, 12:16:02 pm »


Decades past due!! 

Shameful we haven't had that long ago...


Really? Shameful?

There will never be a bridge there and it never has and never will be needed. We shouldn't spend $100 million to slightly benefit a few (mostly any developers who would potentially try to make cheap housing/rental developments there "close to the gathering place"). That sounds like the kind of thing Bartlett would want to get pushed through for his cronies to benefit from.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #202 on: January 23, 2018, 12:18:24 pm »

How would a bridge over 41st street encourage development of the west side of the river by 41st st?   The manufacturing that is there is already just a few blocks from a highway, manufacturing has very little interest in being connected to Brookside etc. or seeing more development. And being right next to the power plant and refinery (as well as highways and zoning, etc.) would make it difficult to sell that area as a redevelopment area for residential or an outlet mall.   Plus, I thought the power plant and refinery has been buying up property north of that area specifically to prevent development?  I get that it would add convenience to few hundred residence, but we are talking about a hundred million dollars for a bridge.



The same thing could be said about 23rd St bridge.  We put a lot of money into an area that is also much better served by expressways.

 
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« Reply #203 on: January 23, 2018, 12:19:03 pm »

Really? Shameful?

There will never be a bridge there and it never has and never will be needed. We shouldn't spend $100 million to slightly benefit a few (mostly any developers who would potentially try to make cheap housing/rental developments there "close to the gathering place"). That sounds like the kind of thing Bartlett would want to get pushed through for his cronies to benefit from.


Repeating;


The same thing could be said about 23rd St bridge.  We put a lot of money into an area that is also much better served by expressways.

As for benefiting developers...isn't that what we do to the exclusion of benefiting the people?   Same could be said about 71st st bridge, too.   Edit:  we already had a Jenks bridge.

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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #204 on: January 23, 2018, 12:43:42 pm »


Repeating;


The same thing could be said about 23rd St bridge.  We put a lot of money into an area that is also much better served by expressways.

As for benefiting developers...isn't that what we do to the exclusion of benefiting the people?   Same could be said about 71st st bridge, too.   Edit:  we already had a Jenks bridge.


No the 71st street bridge is an extremely heavily used bridge and is very much needed. The Jenks Bridge doesn't come close to serving that need.

You're right, the 23rd street bridge really isn't necessary. SW boulevard, I244 bridge and I44 serve that area well enough the vast majority of the time. 23rd bridge is pretty sparsely used (4,200 traffic count per day, less than 5,500 at SW blvd and far less than 29k over 71st). That is the lowest used Arkansas River bridge we have data for, even lower than the one way out near Wagoner, but it's already there so might as well leave it as it's a good  backup and is used for big festivals and fireworks.

Considering of all of Tulsa's deficiencies in traffic and infrastructure, I wouldn't put 41st bridge on a wish list.
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #205 on: January 23, 2018, 12:54:46 pm »

A bridge at W 41st street is a ridiculous idea. It would be a monumental waste of money.

I disagree. I think it would be brilliant and open up development with beautiful views of the skyline and river.

My daughter plays on the west bank soccer fields and I just think that that part of west Tulsa could be a gold mine.

Just think what it would do for the whole area.

Webster High School would become closer than Edison High School for Maple Ridgers.

Just imagine the land conversion.
 
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« Reply #206 on: January 23, 2018, 03:00:43 pm »

Dang, I know Tulsa likely only had about a 0.0000000000001% chance anyway, but we offered 23rd and Jackson. This is a company that currently has made it's home in the center of one of the most vibrant cities in America, and we offer them land with scenic views of some really sad looking low income apartments and a tank farm? Not to mention being smack dab between two oil refineries? For real?

Did everyone enjoy all that "industry" in the air last night?  Midtown smelled like a wet dog in a car fire.
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« Reply #207 on: January 23, 2018, 03:11:28 pm »

Did everyone enjoy all that "industry" in the air last night?  Midtown smelled like a wet dog in a car fire.

That was apparently due to the natural gas drilling rig explosion about 110 miles south of Tulsa. Hard to believe it would blow that far and smell that strong but that is what was reported on the news.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #208 on: January 23, 2018, 03:19:32 pm »

That was apparently due to the natural gas drilling rig explosion about 110 miles south of Tulsa. Hard to believe it would blow that far and smell that strong but that is what was reported on the news.


Saw a clip this morning that showed it still burning, but I  think it was from yesterday.  I think they got the fire out, but then ya got a whole bunch of well vapors coming out...at least for a while.
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« Reply #209 on: January 23, 2018, 03:22:07 pm »


Webster High School would become closer than Edison High School for Maple Ridgers.


No it wouldn't? Maple Ridge is from 15th to 31st. The closest bridge is 23rd and adding a 41st bridge would put them no closer. Parts of it are already closer to Webster than Edison. That doesn't change the district boundary and residents there wouldn't want that. Parts of Florence Park are closer to Nathan Hale than to Edison but I don't see residents there trying to switch HS affiliation.

Did you mean Brookside neighborhood?

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