A grassroots organization focused on the intelligent and sustainable development, preservation and revitalization of Tulsa.
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 19, 2017, 04:16:21 am
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: State officials refuse to turn over voter roll data to Trump election panel  (Read 1233 times)
Hoss
I'm a Daft Punk
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 10917


I might be moving to Montana soon...


WWW
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2017, 06:37:18 pm »

They'll find a few scattered cases of voter fraud.  That'll be the excuse they need to enact voter suppression type measures.

the issue is that Dump is saying there were 3 million cases of voter fraud.  His fragile ego cannot handle the fact that, while he did win the election based on the electoral college, he lost the popular vote.  Bigly.
Logged

Libertarianism is a system of beliefs for people who think adolescence is the epitome of human achievement.

Global warming isn't real because it was cold today.  Also great news: world famine is over because I just ate - Stephen Colbert.

Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...
guido911
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12027



« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2017, 12:36:38 pm »

They'll find a few scattered cases of voter fraud.  That'll be the excuse they need to enact voter suppression type measures.

Like what? Poll taxes? Property ownership requirement? Education? Or, gasp, voter ID?

 If you are worried about anything it should be possible loss of personal info.
Logged

Someone get Hoss a pacifier.
cannon_fodder
All around good guy.
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 9159



« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2017, 08:16:19 am »

Such a strange country we live in now:

- Trump claims widespread election fraud so we can't trust the results of the upcoming election
- Trump narrowly wins, claims historic mandate and totally no voter fraud
- Press focuses on Trump's loss by millions in the popular vote
- Trump unilaterally tweets that millions of fraudulent votes were cast, all for Hillary

That's the basis for this inquiry.  Not a rational belief or evidence that there actually is widespread voter fraud.  The basis for spending millions of dollars on something is the President's ego. 

Fine, that's where we start. But what do we know about actual voter fraud?

Many who have studied the issue have concluded that there is zero evidence that widespread voter fraud had an impact on the election. We know  of four actual cases of voter fraud in the 2016 election.  Out of 135,000,000 votes, 4.  There are another half dozen suspected cases. Here are the 4 reported cases:
1. Because Trump said the polls were all rigged, a lady in Des Moines tried to level the playing field by voting twice for Trump (and was caught),
2. A man in Texas voted twice, was caught, and claim he was an employee of the Trump Campaign testing the integrity of the voting system,
3. A Republican election judge in Illinois voted on behalf of her dead husband by absentee ballot, and
4. A mail clerk in Florida was filling in blanks on absentee ballots.

That's not to say that ineligible voting isn't a potential problem we need to keep an eye on. But even when newspapers set out to report on voter fraud they find a handful of actual incidents and several more instances of people who are registered improperly (such as automatically being registered to vote when getting a license, even if ineligible.  But that isn't evidence that they actually voted, let alone fraudulently).  Surely we can improve the system, but the constant drum beat that there is widespread voter fraud is propagating a myth that undermines our democracy (and seems to actually encourage some people to engage in voter fraud).

And that's ignoring the fact that the inquiry is a massive federal attempt to mine personal data using states as proxies.  Your voter information is as precious as what firearms you own, can you imagine the conservative outrage if the Feds asked states to collect firearms data on every American and turn it over to Uncle Sam?

Instead of focusing on a handful of people who may try to vote twice for Trump's reelection, why not focus on making the process more efficient and other actual existential threats to the integrity of our Republic?  But no, we actually cut funding for programs designed to keep the election process secure.  Back to the witch hunt!
Logged

- - - - - - - - -
I crush grooves.
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6318


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2017, 09:57:21 am »

This is hilarious. It's completely reasonable that we spend zillions of dollars and spill gallons of ink looking into how Russia stole the election for Trump. An argument Obama laughed at ladt October.  But by God we better not see who actually voted in our election. That's crazy talk.

See if this analogy fits...

- An ice storm knocks a million electric customers off the grid. 
- There is a public movement to require the utility bury its lines to increase reliability.
- The utility fights it tooth and nail, but says they "listen to their customers" and begins some high-profile construction work.
- The work is so shoddy and recklessly invasive that the customers demand that it stop.
- The utility replies "thats what you said you wanted" but we will stop if you insist.




Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 11111



« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2017, 02:27:42 pm »

This is just another step in the ongoing process of disenfranchising voters of non-white background.  That is a process that goes back to right after the Civil War and has never stopped.  People who actually care about this country living up to its ideals will remain vigilant and never let your guard down for a moment.  The forces of true evil - Rupert Murdoch and his minions - never rest, and are always looking for ways to probe and prod and get a crack in the armor of democracy!

There is no meaningful voter fraud in this country - even the most harped about case, Kennedy and Cook County, Ill. was found to be just another Fake News story propagated by the predecessors to Fake Fox News.  Right wing extremists.  Occasional anecdotes find dead people still on the rolls... but since they are DEAD, they don't vote!!   As evidenced by the lack of the dead's signature on polling forms!  Just like every other registered voter who didn't vote.





Logged

“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6318


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2017, 02:54:06 pm »

This is just another step in the ongoing process of disenfranchising voters of non-white background.  That is a process that goes back to right after the Civil War and has never stopped. 

It keeps being re-born in the minds of GOP think-tanks as new voter-suppression schemes.

White Republican lawmakers have used the concocted threat of voter fraud as an excuse to enact voter ID laws whose main purpose is to disqualify and discourage young, poor and minority voters, who disproportionately lack the required documents.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/inside-the-republican-creation-of-the-north-carolina-voting-bill-dubbed-the-monster-law/2016/09/01/79162398-6adf-11e6-8225-fbb8a6fc65bc_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.9ecf9a0b78ff



Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
Ed W
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2829



« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2017, 04:19:58 pm »

It keeps being re-born in the minds of GOP think-tanks as new voter-suppression schemes.

White Republican lawmakers have used the concocted threat of voter fraud as an excuse to enact voter ID laws whose main purpose is to disqualify and discourage young, poor and minority voters...



Let's not forget the cute trick they pulled in Alabama or Mississippi. I forget which. They told minority voters they needed ID'S issued through their county DL agency, then promptly closed those agencies in poor communities.
Logged

Ed

"In a democracy, people get the government they deserve"...Joseph de Maistre
Conan71
Recovering Republican
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 28709



« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2017, 06:56:11 pm »

Such a strange country we live in now:

- Trump claims widespread election fraud so we can't trust the results of the upcoming election
- Trump narrowly wins, claims historic mandate and totally no voter fraud
- Press focuses on Trump's loss by millions in the popular vote
- Trump unilaterally tweets that millions of fraudulent votes were cast, all for Hillary

That's the basis for this inquiry.  Not a rational belief or evidence that there actually is widespread voter fraud.  The basis for spending millions of dollars on something is the President's ego. 

Fine, that's where we start. But what do we know about actual voter fraud?

Many who have studied the issue have concluded that there is zero evidence that widespread voter fraud had an impact on the election. We know  of four actual cases of voter fraud in the 2016 election.  Out of 135,000,000 votes, 4.  There are another half dozen suspected cases. Here are the 4 reported cases:
1. Because Trump said the polls were all rigged, a lady in Des Moines tried to level the playing field by voting twice for Trump (and was caught),
2. A man in Texas voted twice, was caught, and claim he was an employee of the Trump Campaign testing the integrity of the voting system,
3. A Republican election judge in Illinois voted on behalf of her dead husband by absentee ballot, and
4. A mail clerk in Florida was filling in blanks on absentee ballots.

That's not to say that ineligible voting isn't a potential problem we need to keep an eye on. But even when newspapers set out to report on voter fraud they find a handful of actual incidents and several more instances of people who are registered improperly (such as automatically being registered to vote when getting a license, even if ineligible.  But that isn't evidence that they actually voted, let alone fraudulently).  Surely we can improve the system, but the constant drum beat that there is widespread voter fraud is propagating a myth that undermines our democracy (and seems to actually encourage some people to engage in voter fraud).

And that's ignoring the fact that the inquiry is a massive federal attempt to mine personal data using states as proxies.  Your voter information is as precious as what firearms you own, can you imagine the conservative outrage if the Feds asked states to collect firearms data on every American and turn it over to Uncle Sam?

Instead of focusing on a handful of people who may try to vote twice for Trump's reelection, why not focus on making the process more efficient and other actual existential threats to the integrity of our Republic?  But no, we actually cut funding for programs designed to keep the election process secure.  Back to the witch hunt!

I don’t know why, but i’m struck with the ridiculous idea of some schmoe complaining about the government wanting their Social Security number.  I mean the government already has your SSN since they issued it!
Logged

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
Hoss
I'm a Daft Punk
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 10917


I might be moving to Montana soon...


WWW
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2017, 08:54:26 pm »

I don’t know why, but i’m struck with the ridiculous idea of some schmoe complaining about the government wanting their Social Security number.  I mean the government already has your SSN since they issued it!

I know, right?

My concern is that they are asking for information from the states that includes addresses, phone numbers, voting records and the like.  Most of which are not in the publicly available records.

What's even more ridiculous is that two of the members of this commissions' states (Kansas and not sure of the other) have refused the request.  Kobach essentially refused his own request.  LOL.  You just can't make smile like this up.
Logged

Libertarianism is a system of beliefs for people who think adolescence is the epitome of human achievement.

Global warming isn't real because it was cold today.  Also great news: world famine is over because I just ate - Stephen Colbert.

Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...
TheArtist
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6593



WWW
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2017, 08:28:01 am »

I know, right?

My concern is that they are asking for information from the states that includes addresses, phone numbers, voting records and the like.  Most of which are not in the publicly available records.

What's even more ridiculous is that two of the members of this commissions' states (Kansas and not sure of the other) have refused the request.  Kobach essentially refused his own request.  LOL.  You just can't make smile like this up.

Now its up to 41 states that will not completely comply.  And then it appears that all the information will be made public?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/03/politics/kris-kobach-letter-voter-fraud-commission-information/index.html

"President Donald Trump created by executive order in May, sent a letter to all 50 states last Wednesday requesting a bevy of voter data, which he notes will eventually be made available to the public.

The information the commission is seeking includes registrants' full names, addresses, dates of birth, political parties, the last four digits of their social security numbers, a list of the elections they voted in since 2006, information on any felony convictions, information on whether they were registered to vote in other states, their military status, and whether they lived overseas. " 
Logged

"When you only have two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other."-Chinese proverb. "Arts a staple. Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter. Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind. Mans spirit grows hungry for art in the same way h
joiei
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1384



« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2017, 03:33:16 pm »

I find it interesting that after the Republicans cried about President Obama issuing a few executive orders: President Trump seems only issue them  Is that the only way he gets things done?  Has 45 gotten any bills passed lately?  
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 03:34:49 pm by joiei » Logged

‎"The only time to eat diet food is while you're waiting for the steak to cook" - Julia Child.
guido911
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12027



« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2017, 03:45:23 pm »

I find it interesting that after the Republicans cried about President Obama issuing a few executive orders: President Trump seems only issue them  Is that the only way he gets things done?  Has 45 gotten any bills passed lately?  

Two weeks ago he signed a bill to help veterans dealing with the VA. Since it involved veterans, I understand why you don't remember.
Logged

Someone get Hoss a pacifier.
cannon_fodder
All around good guy.
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 9159



« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2017, 07:57:27 am »

I don’t know why, but i’m struck with the ridiculous idea of some schmoe complaining about the government wanting their Social Security number.  I mean the government already has your SSN since they issued it!

Great.  Then they don't need to ask for it.  I largely ignored the privacy issue and focused on the "why," to which there isn't a sound response.  But...

In reality, there are restrictions on when and how the government can publish or share private information between agencies.  This magic panel probably has no authority to obtain the private data on citizens on its own.  So it is trying to use States as proxies to get the information. 

Hypothetically speaking, if a foreign government with a desire to infiltrate and disrupt elections of other nations wanted to obtain voter information in the United States - they'd have to hack 50 systems.  Why would we want to streamline that for them when the underlying "benefit" is dubious at best.
Logged

- - - - - - - - -
I crush grooves.
dbacksfan 2.0
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1321


« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2017, 08:54:56 am »

Great.  Then they don't need to ask for it.  I largely ignored the privacy issue and focused on the "why," to which there isn't a sound response.  But...

In reality, there are restrictions on when and how the government can publish or share private information between agencies.  This magic panel probably has no authority to obtain the private data on citizens on its own.  So it is trying to use States as proxies to get the information. 

Hypothetically speaking, if a foreign government with a desire to infiltrate and disrupt elections of other nations wanted to obtain voter information in the United States - they'd have to hack 50 systems.  Why would we want to streamline that for them when the underlying "benefit" is dubious at best.

Honest question, who actually holds voter information in a state. You have to register in the county that you live in, so I would think the bulk of the info would be there. I thought (possibly mistakenly) that the state election board enforced the rules and laws governing elections, and just a list of registered voters and party affiliation.
Logged
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 11111



« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2017, 10:57:12 am »

Two weeks ago he signed a bill to help veterans dealing with the VA. Since it involved veterans, I understand why you don't remember.


Really ??   That is what you are hanging your hat on??  

There were much more sweeping and better changes and large budget increases in funding during Obama than this.  And the biggest problems that led to the waiting lists scandals were both inherited by Obama and cured during his term!   This is one tiny piece of a big puzzle that may help over a long time, but really...??  That's all you got, huh?

Logged

“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
  Hosted by TulsaConnect and Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
 

Mission

 

"TulsaNow's Mission is to help Tulsa become the most vibrant, diverse, sustainable and prosperous city of our size. We achieve this by focusing on the development of Tulsa's distinctive identity and economic growth around a dynamic, urban core, complemented by a constellation of livable, thriving communities."
more...

 

Contact

 

2210 S Main St.
Tulsa, OK 74114
(918) 409-2669
info@tulsanow.org