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November 18, 2017, 09:55:33 am
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Author Topic: District 1 Councilor Wants Small Grocery Moratorium For North Tulsa  (Read 726 times)
Conan71
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« on: May 09, 2017, 07:48:11 am »

I guess I really don’t see the reality here on larger supermarkets avoiding opening in north or west Tulsa due to smaller grocery stores opening.  Where are these smaller grocers and why are we not hearing about them, or are they referring to convenience stores and dollar stores which offer food items?

The fact of the matter is, if you want healthier outcomes, supermarkets packed full of pre-packaged crap are not the answer.  Small neighborhood grocers, if they were financially feasible, could be more flexible on desired offerings.  If they aren’t financially feasible, perhaps they could seek grants from a local foundation or church like the market run by First Presbyterian near the projects on W 23rd St.

And just because you alter the offerings with the grocers doesn’t mean you will automatically modify consumer behavior toward healthier choices.

Maybe I’m reading Hall-Harper all wrong but I don’t think District 1 is faring much better with her than they were with Jack Henderson.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/councilors-to-consider-a-moratorium-on-grocery-stores-in-tulsa/article_ec20912e-8483-5471-88fe-00b10717c5ba.html

Quote
Councilors to consider a moratorium on grocery stores in Tulsa's food deserts

Councilor thinks smaller stores keep supermarkets from opening in food deserts

By Jarrel Wade Tulsa World 7 hrs ago
The Tulsa City Council is planning to consider a moratorium on new grocery stores in council districts with food deserts — an effort hoped to encourage only full-service stores, said Councilor Vanessa Hall-Harper.

Wednesday’s discussion will be with city planners to determine whether a moratorium is possible and whether it would help solve the problem, she said.

Food deserts in Tulsa have long been a difficult problem for elected officials to address. The obvious problem is that they can’t force a private company to open a supermarket.

And as residents cope with what they have available, general health continues to decline, Hall-Harper said.

Her focus is on smaller grocery stores that she believes prevent full-service stores from flourishing in food deserts such as her council district in north Tulsa and west of downtown.

“There’s not enough full-service grocery stores,” Hall-Harper said. “This (moratorium would be) just until we’re able to get our issues and concerns addressed.”

A moratorium wouldn’t be meant to target any specific store chains or developments, she said.

Instead, it would give city officials time to work with developers to bring full-fledged supermarkets to food deserts, she said.

A moratorium, if enacted, would be temporary. Hall-Harper said she anticipates it being in place for less than a year.

Meanwhile, two full-service grocery stores are planned for north Tulsa, with a Supermercado Morelos to open this month and a Save-A-Lot targeted for opening next year.

“We’re not going to play favorites to anyone,” Hall-Harper said. “This is to address the issue of adequate food options.”

She said she’s not concerned with the potential for a moratorium being considered governmental overreach.

“There’s no fear of that on my part,” she said. “In my opinion, developers should work with communities. This is an issue in my district in particular.”

Hall-Harper’s constituents recently protested the permitting of a Dollar General Store in north Tulsa, which they said is more of the same.

“We’re talking about healthy lives,” Hall-Harper said. “Right now there are no options available.”
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« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2017, 08:44:58 am »

If her goal is to prevent gentrification in North Tulsa, this seems like a good way to go about it.

This article also rebuts her argument that full-service grocery stores won’t open in North Tulsa because of smaller stores, i.e. Dollar General/Dollar Tree.  The article notes 2 full-service stores are scheduled to open within the next year. 
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johrasephoenix
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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2017, 09:04:33 am »

Hopefully it doesn't apply to the corner bodega. 

But yeah, it does look like north Tulsa is getting an active voice, which is great.  Maybe she can pull weight and get the urban renewal area between OSU-Tulsa and Brady Heights developed.  Housing in that part of North Tulsa would be amazing - I would totally buy a house at Main and Haskell if someone would build them.
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brettakins
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« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2017, 09:49:14 am »

Aldis in North and west Tulsa would work great

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Conan71
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« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2017, 11:18:15 am »

Aldis in North and west Tulsa would work great



Save-A-Lot is the redneck version of Aldi.  At least the one at 21st & Sheridan is.
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« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2017, 12:59:50 pm »

What is it about the North Tulsa market that keeps grocery chains away? 

I get that the income level is generally lower than is optimal to sell premium products (with higher margins), but Walmart and others emphasize affordable products and, if it comes to it, can make a profit off of WIC and SNAP sales (not to say everyone in North Tulsa is on government assistance, just that even if all customers were I'd think some chains could still profit). ALDIS, Walmart Neighborhood Market, Save-A-Lot...presumably these all make money in neighborhoods with lower than average incomes. If they dropped a Walmart Neighborhood Market at 21st and Yale and another at 31st and Harvard, I don't think saturation with other grocery stores or dollar stores is generally a concern for them.

What is it about the demographics that discourages any of these chains? Am I wrong on the profitability focused on a lower price point?
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2017, 02:11:07 pm »

What is it about the North Tulsa market that keeps grocery chains away?  

I get that the income level is generally lower than is optimal to sell premium products (with higher margins), but Walmart and others emphasize affordable products and, if it comes to it, can make a profit off of WIC and SNAP sales (not to say everyone in North Tulsa is on government assistance, just that even if all customers were I'd think some chains could still profit). ALDIS, Walmart Neighborhood Market, Save-A-Lot...presumably these all make money in neighborhoods with lower than average incomes. If they dropped a Walmart Neighborhood Market at 21st and Yale and another at 31st and Harvard, I don't think saturation with other grocery stores or dollar stores is generally a concern for them.

What is it about the demographics that discourages any of these chains? Am I wrong on the profitability focused on a lower price point?


I think that was talked about in another thread - shrinkage.  The polite term for theft.

Now, the question is - would that be more real than other areas of town.  Like Admiral and Memorial Walmart - that had huge problems for a long, long, time.  And while some people count anything north of about 41st as north Tulsa, Admiral is really the dividing line, so this Wally was in south Tulsa.

I guess I am a little surprised that Walmart hasn't tried a neighborhood market.  That could also draw people from Turley.  Only issue there would be the fact that Walmart raises their prices in poorer neighborhoods....




« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 02:19:30 pm by heironymouspasparagus » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2017, 03:10:59 pm »

What is it about the North Tulsa market that keeps grocery chains away? 

I get that the income level is generally lower than is optimal to sell premium products (with higher margins), but Walmart and others emphasize affordable products and, if it comes to it, can make a profit off of WIC and SNAP sales (not to say everyone in North Tulsa is on government assistance, just that even if all customers were I'd think some chains could still profit). ALDIS, Walmart Neighborhood Market, Save-A-Lot...presumably these all make money in neighborhoods with lower than average incomes. If they dropped a Walmart Neighborhood Market at 21st and Yale and another at 31st and Harvard, I don't think saturation with other grocery stores or dollar stores is generally a concern for them.

What is it about the demographics that discourages any of these chains? Am I wrong on the profitability focused on a lower price point?

It seems the last two that were opened in North Tulsa closed due to theft and unreliability of local employees.

Both cause costs to increases.

Big risk for retailers with a subset of the customer and employee base not appreciating the opportunities provided by these stores.
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brettakins
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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2017, 06:04:53 pm »

again I have to dispel the myth

There are other grocery stores in North Tulsa that have been there for years. There are 2 Warehouse Markets, a Sav-a-lot, and a Las Americas(the owner states he plans to open another location in North Tulsa). This area needs more options to close the gaps in this area's food deserts. To say stores cannot exist in this area because of theft and then to overlook the other stores in this area is crazy to me. The Albertsons that was located on pine and peoria pulled out of this area but they pulled out of the entire state to my knowledge. The store that replaced Albertsons was closed because of theft. This is only one store that were are talking about, not multiple stores.
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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2017, 02:15:59 pm »

What is it about the North Tulsa market that keeps grocery chains away? 

I get that the income level is generally lower than is optimal to sell premium products (with higher margins), but Walmart and others emphasize affordable products and, if it comes to it, can make a profit off of WIC and SNAP sales (not to say everyone in North Tulsa is on government assistance, just that even if all customers were I'd think some chains could still profit). ALDIS, Walmart Neighborhood Market, Save-A-Lot...presumably these all make money in neighborhoods with lower than average incomes. If they dropped a Walmart Neighborhood Market at 21st and Yale and another at 31st and Harvard, I don't think saturation with other grocery stores or dollar stores is generally a concern for them.

What is it about the demographics that discourages any of these chains? Am I wrong on the profitability focused on a lower price point?

While I’m sure economic numbers and demographics play a role, I’m always struck when driving around north Tulsa how much open space there is.  Not everywhere, but with vacant  lots and empty land plus abandoned or shuttered properties, it seems much less densely populated than midtown or south Tulsa.  Combine that with transportation issues and I can see why someone would hesitate to build a large full service grocery store.  It seems to make a lot more sense to build a series smaller stores that serve a smaller area - and I’m not talking about dollar stores.

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