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November 18, 2017, 11:22:49 am
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Author Topic: Ghost Lanes: Angled “Scarchitecture” Reveals Historic Urban Roads & Railways  (Read 696 times)
saintnicster
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« on: April 19, 2017, 08:51:28 am »

Ghost Lanes: Angled “Scarchitecture” Reveals Historic Urban Roads & Railways
http://99percentinvisible.org/article/ghost-lanes-angled-scarchitecture-reveals-historic-urban-roads-railways/

Doesn't mention Tulsa specifically, but we have our shares of this, but an interesting read. 

Just some of the things I can think of -

  • * the inside of the IDL at the macro level along with all the railroads that were pulled out inside of it
  • * The old airport around 61st and Urbana
  • * an old corridor that splits yale and harvard south of the Fairgrounds
  • * an old rail line pulled up between yale and sheridan, admiral and 11th in midtown
  • * Heck, a potential example of the "scars of anticipation" in Gilgrease Expressway

Any other good examples?  I couldn't really think of any specific "buildings that fill in the gap", but that doesn't mean they aren't there Smiley
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erfalf
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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2017, 09:51:48 am »

Maybe someone who knows Tulsa history better can confirm these as being something.

1. it appears that maybe a rail line curved through the blocks starting at The Edge and winding south past 3rd, 4th, & through the parking lots and possibly all the way to Home Depot, all between Frankfort & Kenosha. It actually appears that it maybe split at the site where The Edge sits now with one leg heading due north and the other toward East 1st Place. Causing the angle of The Hartford Building and the parking lot to the north.

2. Greenwood @ Archer. I'm guessing the tracks went just south of the Greenwood commercial buildings, through where the ball park and park is now and followed the northern leg of the IDL at some point, or is it the "ghost street" that would have been between Cameron and Easton wehere there is virtually no development? Makes that interesting sharp angle of the buildings on the west side of Greenwood and the interesting shaped warehouse on the west side of Detroit across from Reconciliation Park.

3. Why is the Gun Boat district the shape it is again. Cannot for the life of me remember.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2017, 10:03:59 am »

Tons downtown of course.  The rails are still in place behind the Santa Fe Depot building at 1st and Elgin.  On the other side of the block the Hartford building is at a weird angle because the tracks used to run along it, follow that line on Google maps and Greenwood stops at 3rd because the tracks crossed just after 3rd and went into the Nordam site.  If you follow that line backwards, it is the spur that ends up at Mohawk park.

In the Brady district old tracks ran along the halfway point between Cameron and Easton (note, there is no "D" street) and connected ot the Katy Trail. The bridge is still there over Denver and remnants of track exist on Cheyenne.

Obviously the trail that now leads from the east end to the Gathering Place and on across the river.

In midtown there were tracks running from the Expo Center.  Its very easy to see from an aerial view because there is a weird gap between Oswego Place and Oswego Avenue and the odd gap behind the apartments on 25th St. you can see the tracks here:



I've heard  repeatedly that there was a mine in the area also (with the mining camp behind south of the tracks (now the BA), but I've never see evidence of that in old photos.
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saintnicster
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« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2017, 10:19:44 am »

I've heard  repeatedly that there was a mine in the area also (with the mining camp behind south of the tracks (now the BA), but I've never see evidence of that in old photos.
Ah, that one I remember seeing about Smiley  TulsaGal did some digging on that one a ways back http://www.tulsagal.net/2011/01/tulsas-coal-mines.html
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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2017, 10:25:57 am »

I've heard  repeatedly that there was a mine in the area also (with the mining camp behind south of the tracks (now the BA), but I've never see evidence of that in old photos.

Amazing photo; so much changed.  Ive always heard there were mines under (former) Sears at 21st & Yale area as well.
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« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2017, 12:28:19 pm »

Ah, that one I remember seeing about Smiley  TulsaGal did some digging on that one a ways back http://www.tulsagal.net/2011/01/tulsas-coal-mines.html

Great find.  She also discussed the tracks coming from Expo.
http://www.tulsagal.net/2010/05/history-mystery.html

The comments mention that the entrance to an underground mine was right where the odd parking lot behind the apartment complex is.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 12:39:09 pm by cannon_fodder » Logged

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2017, 02:29:55 pm »

Tons downtown of course.  The rails are still in place behind the Santa Fe Depot building at 1st and Elgin.  On the other side of the block the Hartford building is at a weird angle because the tracks used to run along it, follow that line on Google maps and Greenwood stops at 3rd because the tracks crossed just after 3rd and went into the Nordam site.  If you follow that line backwards, it is the spur that ends up at Mohawk park.

In the Brady district old tracks ran along the halfway point between Cameron and Easton (note, there is no "D" street) and connected ot the Katy Trail. The bridge is still there over Denver and remnants of track exist on Cheyenne.

Obviously the trail that now leads from the east end to the Gathering Place and on across the river.

In midtown there were tracks running from the Expo Center.  Its very easy to see from an aerial view because there is a weird gap between Oswego Place and Oswego Avenue and the odd gap behind the apartments on 25th St. you can see the tracks here:



I've heard  repeatedly that there was a mine in the area also (with the mining camp behind south of the tracks (now the BA), but I've never see evidence of that in old photos.


Had friends who lived on Oswego Ave in the 60's - between 21st and 23rd.  The track right of way was still there - we never could find evidence of tracks still there (metal detector event).  They were one of the first in the neighborhood to extend their fence to the middle of that to take it over for their own use.  Only two others had taken that "no man's land" by that point.  I wonder if the property tax people have adjusted values accordingly?

There were strip mines just north of there from 15th up to 4th.  Rogers High School was built either on or right next to one site.  I had a place south of there was was old mine filled in - only a few blocks out of frame to the upper left.  Also supposed to be 2 oil wells in the neighborhood according to one of the oldest neighbors, but never knew where they were.

And Yale isn't there in that picture!

« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 02:34:38 pm by heironymouspasparagus » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2017, 06:31:25 pm »

If you take Delaware south from 11th street, at 13th, there is cracked asphalt in a radial shape, I’m assuming from the trolley car lines which used to run out that way.  The house on the NE corner of 13th & Delaware is of newer construction than any others in the immediate area suggesting that lot was reclaimed after the trolleys were taken out.  At 13th & College or Evanston, the curbs widen out at the intersection for no apparent reason which I’m assuming is also a relic of the trolley line. 

It is rumored there is an old mine entrance behind the concrete retaining wall to the west of Sheridan between 21st and roughly 17th.  I may have even gotten that piece of info from Tulsa Gal’s website some time back.
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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2017, 06:57:37 pm »

If you take Delaware south from 11th street, at 13th, there is cracked asphalt in a radial shape, I’m assuming from the trolley car lines which used to run out that way.  The house on the NE corner of 13th & Delaware is of newer construction than any others in the immediate area suggesting that lot was reclaimed after the trolleys were taken out.  At 13th & College or Evanston, the curbs widen out at the intersection for no apparent reason which I’m assuming is also a relic of the trolley line.  

It is rumored there is an old mine entrance behind the concrete retaining wall to the west of Sheridan between 21st and roughly 17th.  I may have even gotten that piece of info from Tulsa Gal’s website some time back.

http://www.batesline.com/archives/2009/12/tulsa-streetcar-and-interurban-l.html

Edit:
Oklahoma Union Railway
Starting at the Fairgrounds on Louisville go north to 13th
Go west on 13th to Delaware
Go north on Delaware to 11th
Go west on 11th to Elgin
Go through downtown and eventually to Sapulpa

There may have also been a spur or something earlier going south on St Louis to Swan Park



« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 07:48:50 pm by Red Arrow » Logged

 
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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2017, 08:55:39 pm »

I've been confused by this one I found house shopping:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1021424,-95.932253,683m/data=!3m1!1e3

It almost looks like pittsburgh used to continue south of 41st. Now it's just a weird inaccessible road behind houses. I thought maybe flood-related but the time I walked on it, it looked more like a road than a ditch.
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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2017, 09:25:03 pm »

I've been confused by this one I found house shopping:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1021424,-95.932253,683m/data=!3m1!1e3

It almost looks like pittsburgh used to continue south of 41st. Now it's just a weird inaccessible road behind houses. I thought maybe flood-related but the time I walked on it, it looked more like a road than a ditch.

Pittsburgh looks like a regular road south of 41st.  What am I not seeing?
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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2017, 12:01:31 am »

South would be down.. Follow the yellow line down and you'll see what he meant Wink

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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2017, 08:12:39 am »

I've been confused by this one I found house shopping:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1021424,-95.932253,683m/data=!3m1!1e3

It almost looks like pittsburgh used to continue south of 41st. Now it's just a weird inaccessible road behind houses. I thought maybe flood-related but the time I walked on it, it looked more like a road than a ditch.

Pretty sure that is for drainage.   Topo maps show a natural drain area along that line running from the NE, coming from Whiteside park, and continuing SW.  If you follow the line of concrete to the SW past where it ends (I think it may end in a drain, can't tell for sure from satellite), it aligns with a similar drain area between Jamestown and Louisville, starting about 44th and continuing South.



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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2017, 08:22:21 am »

I've been confused by this one I found house shopping:


It almost looks like pittsburgh used to continue south of 41st. Now it's just a weird inaccessible road behind houses. I thought maybe flood-related but the time I walked on it, it looked more like a road than a ditch.


Not sure in early years, but that area was developing after WWII through the 50's.  It was exactly like that from at least the early 1950's or so...we lived in that area and I went to Patrick Henry.  I think it opened about 1953 or so.  That was probably fill from an old strip mine (coal).  Lots of those out at what was the fringes of Tulsa then.

Half mile north of there, around 36th and Toledo is what looks like a northerly extension of that terrain.  May be just been creek bed/drainage zone before terra-formed for housing.  Mockingbird Lake may be a "retention" pond for the area.  And it looks like the natural contours continue up through the Methodist Manor and north of 31s a little ways.

Lived up there for a couple years - the old house we lived in had a small oak tree in the front yard that had obviously been planted when the house was built.  Barely big enough to climb!  Now, it has grown to the point where someone came along and put a plaque in the yard "celebrating" that tree being there since before statehood !!   Geez...is there no vetting or fact checking anywhere in the world today??



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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2017, 04:45:18 pm »

Pretty sure that is for drainage.   Topo maps show a natural drain area along that line running from the NE, coming from Whiteside park, and continuing SW.  If you follow the line of concrete to the SW past where it ends (I think it may end in a drain, can't tell for sure from satellite), it aligns with a similar drain area between Jamestown and Louisville, starting about 44th and continuing South.





It turns into someone's driveway at the end.
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