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November 21, 2018, 04:36:29 am
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Author Topic: Big boxes are crumbling around us  (Read 8313 times)
MostSeriousness
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« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2017, 01:47:27 pm »

I think the comment was referring to the former Mardel location, possibly being a grocer...
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rebound
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« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2017, 02:09:51 pm »

I think the comment was referring to the former Mardel location, possibly being a grocer...

Ah.  Thanks.  I was confused there for a bit.   Wink
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BKDotCom
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« Reply #62 on: October 15, 2018, 10:30:58 am »

Woodland Hills' Sears to close
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SXSW
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« Reply #63 on: October 15, 2018, 10:40:37 am »


Surprised it lasted this long.  Any way we could get a Nordstrom here? 
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BKDotCom
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« Reply #64 on: October 15, 2018, 11:01:12 am »

Surprised it lasted this long.  Any way we could get a Nordstrom here? 

We've got a tiny Nordstrom across the street FWTW.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #65 on: October 15, 2018, 01:58:17 pm »



Was in last Sat and got a front end alignment (the tech was pretty good at it, too!) and asked the Auto Mgr if he had heard any rumors yet.  He said no, but it's a day to day thing.

They lost their way long, long ago, and the idea that you can "cut costs" your way to success has been proven false over and over.  That means you are also cutting the services and 'style' and other things that got you to where you used to be, too.  Oh, well....evolution in action!   At least the C-suite people will get their golden parachutes...to he$$ with the other 90,000 people working there...!

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
DTowner
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« Reply #66 on: October 15, 2018, 02:17:57 pm »

Sears has been failing for a long time in increments both large and small, most of its own making.  Each bad decision seemed to lead to more bad decisions, etc.  Ironic in that it was the ďAmazonĒ of its day by creating the place from which you could order just about anything and have it shipped directly to you.
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Ibanez
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« Reply #67 on: October 16, 2018, 08:36:39 am »

https://gizmodo.com/the-twisted-truth-about-sears-and-the-american-dream-1829756711

Sears never had a chance.....
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Townsend
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« Reply #68 on: October 16, 2018, 10:47:47 am »

The House that Came in the Mail


https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-house-that-came-in-the-mail/



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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #69 on: October 16, 2018, 10:57:29 am »



Go to that page- go half way down - school house 5008.  Looks VERY much like the one I went to 2nd grade in.

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
Laramie
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« Reply #70 on: October 16, 2018, 03:31:14 pm »

You'll see these malls run in stages or cycles; hopefully you will see a return.   

OKC closed Crossroad Mall; attempted to re-purpose it as Plaza Mayor Mall to cater to a growing Hispanic-latino population. 

Amazon has made a big impact on the malls.   What will eventually determine the fate of the Amazon's hype will have more to do with their ability to maintain quality products distributed; how fast they can ship those items.
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ďThink for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too.Ē ― Voltaire
TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #71 on: October 22, 2018, 11:46:57 am »

More on this discussion:

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/sears-bankruptcy-is-likely-to-inflict-pain-on-mall-owners/article_eec2312a-15fe-51f8-8cfb-5bf552339c04.html

This article is the coming realization of what this board (and many similar-minded folks) have been discussing for years: Big boxes are going down and will leave massive vacant retail spaces, especially in big malls that are built on a outdated model that is becoming obsolete.

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The bankruptcy could create more than 100 million square feet of space, he estimated.

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Other mall owners, who have been grappling with the retailerís store closings and diminished ability to attract shoppers for years, must now contend with the possibility of a full liquidation, which would mean a glut of retail real estate in an already oversupplied market.

They mentioned that a major mall owner spent over $100 million to redevelop a Sears into multiple smaller stores (over $333/sq ft!) but was in Brooklyn. Even if other locations will be much less, re-purposing can be a huge investment. Are malls like Promenade ready to redevelop every major space into something completely different or redistribute and rebuild larger sections like the vacant Macy's wing? Not only will they be left with large empty/awkward spaces that no other retailer can use, they'll have to spend a lot to repurpose and split up, all just to rent for a lower price in a saturated market.

If they would've designed malls for livability and socialization rather than greed and short-term profits, they might've been decent places to live. Converting these places to residential seems like the best path forward in order to utilize the space and get out of the retail market, but would the desirability be there to live in a sometimes outdated mall in areas often notorious for car break-ins?
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DTowner
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« Reply #72 on: October 23, 2018, 02:11:15 pm »

If they would've designed malls for livability and socialization rather than greed and short-term profits, they might've been decent places to live. Converting these places to residential seems like the best path forward in order to utilize the space and get out of the retail market, but would the desirability be there to live in a sometimes outdated mall in areas often notorious for car break-ins?

In fairness, I think the original concept behind the indoor mall was to replicate the old downtown main street shopping experience, except in a safe, climate controlled environment nearer to where everyone now lived in the suburbs.  Where I grew up, many of the downtown stores moved into the new mall built on the then edge of town, which gave the mail a familiar feel.  Over time, of course, those local stores closed, unable to survive the rent and competition of national chains.  As a result, malls began to look and feel alike, as they all had pretty much the same lineup of national chains.  Even worse, like would happen decades later with big box stores, way more malls were built than population growth could ever justify.  Consider that at one time Tulsa had 6 malls plus Utica Square (Williams Forum, Southroads, Promenade, Eastland, Kensington Galleria, and Woodland Hills), and five Dillardís stores.  Setting aside the competition from big box and on-line retailers, it was inevitable that many malls would fail, particularly those not in high income and rapid growth areas.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #73 on: October 24, 2018, 11:30:44 am »

In fairness, I think the original concept behind the indoor mall was to replicate the old downtown main street shopping experience, except in a safe, climate controlled environment nearer to where everyone now lived in the suburbs.  Where I grew up, many of the downtown stores moved into the new mall built on the then edge of town, which gave the mail a familiar feel.  Over time, of course, those local stores closed, unable to survive the rent and competition of national chains.  As a result, malls began to look and feel alike, as they all had pretty much the same lineup of national chains.  Even worse, like would happen decades later with big box stores, way more malls were built than population growth could ever justify.  Consider that at one time Tulsa had 6 malls plus Utica Square (Williams Forum, Southroads, Promenade, Eastland, Kensington Galleria, and Woodland Hills), and five Dillardís stores.  Setting aside the competition from big box and on-line retailers, it was inevitable that many malls would fail, particularly those not in high income and rapid growth areas.

Yes, architect Victor Gruen designed the original open-air and indoor malls and intended for them to be whole communities including housing, schools, etc so that life could go on year round in northern climates:

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After the success of the first project, he designed his best-known work for the owners of Dayton Department stores, the 800,000-square-foot (74,000 m2) Southdale Mall in Edina, Minnesota, the first enclosed shopping mall in the country. Opening in 1956, Southdale was meant as the kernel of a full-fledged community. The mall was commercially successful, but the original design was never fully realized, as the intended apartment buildings, schools, medical facilities, park and lake were not built. Because he invented the modern mall, Malcolm Gladwell, writing in The New Yorker, suggested that "Victor Gruen may well have been the most influential architect of the twentieth century."[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Gruen#Career

Conveniently, American malls took the retail part of it which was the easiest and most profitable to repeat (at the time) and left out the integrated communities which would've just complicated the plans and caused issues with the standard mall model.

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In a speech in London in 1978, Gruen disavowed shopping mall developments as having "bastardized" his ideas:[6][12] "I refuse to pay alimony for those bastard developments."[13] Gruen died on February 14, 1980.

However, Gruen's company designed malls for decades, taking the large contracts and never standing up for his ideals. So he is partly to blame for not realizing or even attempting his own dream.

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #74 on: October 24, 2018, 03:54:25 pm »

You'll see these malls run in stages or cycles; hopefully you will see a return.   

OKC closed Crossroad Mall; attempted to re-purpose it as Plaza Mayor Mall to cater to a growing Hispanic-latino population. 

Amazon has made a big impact on the malls.   What will eventually determine the fate of the Amazon's hype will have more to do with their ability to maintain quality products distributed; how fast they can ship those items.


OKC didn't exactly close Crossroads - it was very much like Eastland here in Tulsa - gangs, punks, and thugs were allowed to take over and scare regular customers away.  I was in that area a lot for the last 3 or 4 years of that.  The local hobby train club had one of the empty stores as a place for model trains for a few years.  I haven't been there in 3 or 4 yrs, so don't know if it is still around...

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
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