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April 06, 2020, 01:13:48 am
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Author Topic: Promenade Mall  (Read 23483 times)
DTowner
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« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2019, 12:23:26 pm »

This mall had struggled, but its ultimate demise was assured when it started losing chain stores in the early 2000s.  Unless someone like OU buys it for a major redevelopment project, it will likely take a decade to see it fully rehabbed into other purposes.
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« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2019, 12:26:13 pm »

This board has been talking about this for some time (Especially in this thread: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21470.75). Online is stil just in its infancy and only 10% of total retail in 2017.

In order to survive in retail as a big mall, you have to be the hot new thing on the block with all the trendy places or face a quick decline. Promenade had already been on the decline back in the 2000s before online retail was so huge. Now it's dated and lacking the wow/nice factor to lure in people. Woodlands is still a destination for Southys. Promenade isn't a destination and has felt on the downward spiral for some time.

I do hope OU Tulsa expands and Promenade seems like a good close spot (with AMPLE parking!), but unless they get the mall for cheap, it may not be the best setup as it would require a massive investment to retrofit into medical or education facilities. It's a tough choice when you would only typically save maybe 25% by remodeling vs building new and have a far less attractive building in this case. That is potentially cut down to maybe 15% with increased building material costs right now and the entire mall is probably far more than OU could use any time soon. So unless they are basically giving the mall away or splitting up parts, it might not make sense for them to retro fit. Best turn it into an outlet mall or maybe the worlds first Church Mall! Shop for all you creed needs in one place!

I do see the future of the mall being similar to Eastland, with bigger businesses/churches/medical moving in, but one section at a time and potentially keeping the food court viable. Medical makes the most sense though.

They could look at what Westminster CO is doing with their old mall.  This is what the mall used to look like 5 years ago:


Then they demolished it (except for JC Penney which is still open..for now):


And this is the redevelopment plan of which two of the mixed-use buildings are already under construction as well as a hotel and an Alamo Drafthouse:


« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 12:29:03 pm by SXSW » Logged

 
Conan71
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« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2019, 01:18:09 pm »

This board has been talking about this for some time (Especially in this thread: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21470.75). Online is stil just in its infancy and only 10% of total retail in 2017.

In order to survive in retail as a big mall, you have to be the hot new thing on the block with all the trendy places or face a quick decline. Promenade had already been on the decline back in the 2000s before online retail was so huge. Now it's dated and lacking the wow/nice factor to lure in people. Woodlands is still a destination for Southys. Promenade isn't a destination and has felt on the downward spiral for some time.

I do hope OU Tulsa expands and Promenade seems like a good close spot (with AMPLE parking!), but unless they get the mall for cheap, it may not be the best setup as it would require a massive investment to retrofit into medical or education facilities. It's a tough choice when you would only typically save maybe 25% by remodeling vs building new and have a far less attractive building in this case. That is potentially cut down to maybe 15% with increased building material costs right now and the entire mall is probably far more than OU could use any time soon. So unless they are basically giving the mall away or splitting up parts, it might not make sense for them to retro fit. Best turn it into an outlet mall or maybe the worlds first Church Mall! Shop for all you creed needs in one place!

I do see the future of the mall being similar to Eastland, with bigger businesses/churches/medical moving in, but one section at a time and potentially keeping the food court viable. Medical makes the most sense though.

For perspective, the huge renovation which turned the old Southland into Promenade happened in 1985-86 so its current incarnation is now 33-34 years old.
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swake
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« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2019, 01:27:59 pm »

The last big renovation would have been when Foley's (Macy's) was added in 1996. That when the big parking garage in the back was added and the movie theater moved and expanded.

JC Penny probably isn't going to last real long either, their stock is down in the $1 range.
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DTowner
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« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2019, 02:54:44 pm »

That would be much better than OU-Tulsa turning it into part of its campus or a hospital.  I would love to see the Dillard’s and the parking garage on the south side survive, with some retail fronting 41st & Yale, but rest leveled to become a mix of office, apartments and townhouses.
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« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2019, 03:17:41 pm »

That would be much better than OU-Tulsa turning it into part of its campus or a hospital.  I would love to see the Dillard’s and the parking garage on the south side survive, with some retail fronting 41st & Yale, but rest leveled to become a mix of office, apartments and townhouses.

Absolutely.  Maybe it's a mix of student housing and office buildings along Yale across the street from campus that tie into the existing light/crosswalk at 43rd.  OU can then lease space as needed. 

Extend Braden Ave. north of 43rd to connect to 41st with a new light/crosswalk creating a connection to Southroads.  Line Braden with retail and restaurant space that utilizes the existing garages and connects to Dillard's as the remaining department store anchor.  Maybe integrate something unique like an Alamo Drafthouse movie theater or a hotel to create a destination.
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« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2019, 07:00:54 pm »

That would be much better than OU-Tulsa turning it into part of its campus or a hospital.  I would love to see the Dillard’s and the parking garage on the south side survive, with some retail fronting 41st & Yale, but rest leveled to become a mix of office, apartments and townhouses.

I seem to recall the inverse; a childrens hospital campus being turned into a big shopping cluster alongside Skelly Drive.  Really rockin.
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« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2019, 09:56:17 am »

Apparently they have new tenants to replace some of the vacancies and a new operator of the theater:


Quote
New tenants headed to Promenade mall after movie theater, retailers close


The Tulsa Promenade is in the midst of a tenant transition.

The midtown mall, located near 41st Street and Yale Avenue, has several new tenants coming in to fill current and upcoming vacancies.

“We are getting new tenants in, and we are being able to stabilize the tenants who are here,” General Manager Veronica Butts said Wednesday.


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“We had great Christmas traffic, and we have Christmas vendors that were here that are going to come back full time. They are from out of state, which is good to see,” she said.

Abby’s Jewelry will be moving into a space left vacant with the recent closing of Zales Jewelry, and a candy store is going to be opening in the former location of Kay Jewelers.

Other recent additions to the mall include Brenda’s Bridal and Rental, which opened in January, and Selah Model and Co., which opened in October.

Hollywood Theaters Palace 12, which was owned by Regal Cinemas, closed Sunday.

The movie theater is set to reopen under new management within two weeks, Butts said.

Two national retailers, American Eagle Outfitters and Charlotte Russe, are planning to close soon. Butts said those spaces have been leased, and new stores should be opening in those spaces by mid-February.

She declined to name the new theater management company or the new tenants opening storefronts in the mall.

With the closing of Macy’s in 2017, Tulsa Promenade lost one of its anchor stores, leaving J.C. Penney and Dillard’s as the remaining large tenants.

The Macy’s store has been purchased by a broker, Butts said, and there is currently a contract on the space. She said she couldn’t say who the prospective tenant was.

Last year, CREOKS Behavioral Health Services moved its Tulsa clinic to the Tulsa Promenade mall, renovating 40,000 square feet of the old Mervyn’s location. Part of that space had already been transformed into Sky Fitness.

Tulsa Promenade was sold in 2013 to a New York real estate investor. In 2016, mall owners Tulsa Promenade Realty Management LLC refinanced its commercial mortgage.

Butts said there have been rumors that the mall has been sold again, but that is incorrect.

“The mall has not been sold,” Butts said.

According to a note left on the Zales storefront, customers should contact the Woodland Hills Mall location for layaways, online orders, repairs and special orders.



https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/new-tenants-headed-to-promenade-mall-after-movie-theater-retailers/article_90431afb-11d6-5b17-b277-de774cbf7d82.html
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« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2019, 10:07:01 am »

Quote

“We are getting new tenants in, and we are being able to stabilize the tenants who are here,” General Manager Veronica Butts said Wednesday.

“We had great Christmas traffic, and we have Christmas vendors that were here that are going to come back full time. They are from out of state, which is good to see,” she said.

Something about the way the manager is doing damage control sounds a bit desperate (Maybe the "stabilize the tenants who are here" and ignoring the elephant in the room of major chains leaving at an alarming rate).

The bridal place being added last year is not in the slightest bit exciting for prospective shoppers. I'm not their target audience but losing Macys, Zales, American Eagle Outfitters and Charlotte Russ are huge losses in terms of popularity and stability. I don't know anything about Abbys but hard to believe it'll have the same draw.

I guess it's good for the area to have Promenade get through this, but seems like it might be pushing back the inevitable rather than evolving or innovating to create something unique. All in all I don't mind if the mall fails eventually though because it is owned by a bit NYC firm so good chance local companies will come out winners with some cheap real estate. However, it is in the public's interest to have some sort of thriving retail close to midtown to capture sales tax revenue that will inevitably be spent elsewhere.
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« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2019, 10:31:12 am »

Noticed they've got new maps on the website



Why the heck did they omit Dillard's from the map??
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 10:39:01 am by BKDotCom » Logged
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« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2019, 10:35:22 am »

Something about the way the manager is doing damage control sounds a bit desperate (Maybe the "stabilize the tenants who are here" and ignoring the elephant in the room of major chains leaving at an alarming rate).

The bridal place being added last year is not in the slightest bit exciting for prospective shoppers. I'm not their target audience but losing Macys, Zales, American Eagle Outfitters and Charlotte Russ are huge losses in terms of popularity and stability. I don't know anything about Abbys but hard to believe it'll have the same draw.

I guess it's good for the area to have Promenade get through this, but seems like it might be pushing back the inevitable rather than evolving or innovating to create something unique. All in all I don't mind if the mall fails eventually though because it is owned by a bit NYC firm so good chance local companies will come out winners with some cheap real estate. However, it is in the public's interest to have some sort of thriving retail close to midtown to capture sales tax revenue that will inevitably be spent elsewhere.

Yeah seems like they are kicking the can down the road.  They are still viable as long as Dillard's and the theater are operating but far from healthy.  I just think a big redevelopment would really give this area a big shot in the arm.  There are higher-income neighborhoods to the west and a few miles to the south that this would pull from, and potentially help stabilize or even revitalize some of the declining neighborhoods to the north and east.
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« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2019, 11:09:24 am »

Noticed they've got new maps on the website



Why the heck did they omit Dillard's from the map??

Maybe Dillards owns it's own building?
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DTowner
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« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2019, 11:57:34 am »

Maybe Dillards owns it's own building?

Yep, same reason the former Macy's building is not shown.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 12:06:02 pm by DTowner » Logged
DTowner
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« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2019, 12:05:36 pm »

Something about the way the manager is doing damage control sounds a bit desperate (Maybe the "stabilize the tenants who are here" and ignoring the elephant in the room of major chains leaving at an alarming rate).

The bridal place being added last year is not in the slightest bit exciting for prospective shoppers. I'm not their target audience but losing Macys, Zales, American Eagle Outfitters and Charlotte Russ are huge losses in terms of popularity and stability. I don't know anything about Abbys but hard to believe it'll have the same draw.

I guess it's good for the area to have Promenade get through this, but seems like it might be pushing back the inevitable rather than evolving or innovating to create something unique. All in all I don't mind if the mall fails eventually though because it is owned by a bit NYC firm so good chance local companies will come out winners with some cheap real estate. However, it is in the public's interest to have some sort of thriving retail close to midtown to capture sales tax revenue that will inevitably be spent elsewhere.

The owner paid millions for this property, it is not going to just shut it down without a buyer lined up so long as it can keep generating some cash flow.  Plus, there are probably lease clauses that tie rent rates to occupancy levels/foot traffic, etc., so getting new tenants in is important to prop up rent rates for existing tenants.

I suspect few if any of the new tenants will be national chains, but the owner is trying to get as much of the mall occupied as possible.  That is a reasonable strategy under the circumstances.  The death of a mall is usually a long slow process.

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« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2019, 01:10:42 pm »

Yep, same reason the former Macy's building is not shown.

Dillard's is part of the mall (regardless of who owns the bldg).
Dillard's is listed underneath the map "Anchor  Dillard's"
Same with Macy's & Mervyn's  (which I assume aren't shown because they're empty / not accessible from the inside)
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