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November 23, 2017, 08:06:24 pm
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Author Topic: Promenade Mall  (Read 2636 times)
BKDotCom
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« on: January 04, 2017, 04:22:03 pm »

A few months ago I predicted some sort of mall closure announcement (or restructuring / refocus / something) after the holidays.

No announcement re the mall as a whole, but Macy's is pulling the plug... out by the end of the year.
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Tulsasaurus Rex
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2017, 04:28:52 pm »

I vote for a greenhouse, microlofts, or an OU-Tulsa med school.

http://gizmodo.com/7-dead-shopping-malls-that-found-surprising-second-live-1634073681
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2017, 04:36:19 pm »

Toys R Us in east Tulsa (by the old Eastland Mall) is closing in January, Sears in midtown is closing in April, and now Macy’s at Promenade Mall is closing by the end of the year.

Tulsa still has a K-Mart on the east side and a Sears at Woodland Hills, neither of those seem like they can last very long.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2017, 04:46:16 pm »

Irony:  giving Macy's millions in tax subsidies for a couple hundred low wage jobs so they could build an online fulfillment center and close a retail store in Tulsa.

Macy's is closing 100 stores nationwide.  With Woodland Hills being <5 miles away, this sadly makes sense.  Many duplicate stores have pulled out of Promenade in the last ~5 years.  Mass retail in a brick and mortar store is becoming a harder and harder business.  Add Tulsa Hills to the shopping option and something has to give.  We didn't add a Tulsa Hill's worth of new population in the last 10 years...

- - -

I vote indoor paintball.
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2017, 06:32:32 pm »

Irony:  giving Macy's millions in tax subsidies for a couple hundred low wage jobs so they could build an online fulfillment center and close a retail store in Tulsa.

Macy's is closing 100 stores nationwide.  With Woodland Hills being <5 miles away, this sadly makes sense.  Many duplicate stores have pulled out of Promenade in the last ~5 years.  Mass retail in a brick and mortar store is becoming a harder and harder business.  Add Tulsa Hills to the shopping option and something has to give.  We didn't add a Tulsa Hill's worth of new population in the last 10 years...

- - -

I vote indoor paintball.

And yet, more proof that building new retail stores doesn’t mean it creates commerce.  It just pilfers customers from other existing businesses.

In reality, this is nothing new.  Aside from indoor malls generally being on the downswing, the overhaul of Southland which created Promenade is now 30+ years old and I don’t see that it’s really gotten much of a recent facelift to keep it relevant.  Any bets on how much longer JCP and Dillard’s stay open there?
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« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2017, 11:48:04 pm »


I vote indoor paintball.


...on horseback.  Scotchguard some cavalry uniforms and outfit the mounts with WWI gasmask faceguards and your all set.

But actually, Im surprised the 21st and Yale store is the one on the chopping block given its uniqueness.

“This is the only free-standing store of its type in the nation”  says the Whirled.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-sears-had-everything-when-it-moved-to-the/article_ef525501-c34d-5966-a9d1-5c69d72c061e.html

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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2017, 12:26:24 am »

And yet, more proof that building new retail stores doesn’t mean it creates commerce.  It just pilfers customers from other existing businesses.

In reality, this is nothing new.  Aside from indoor malls generally being on the downswing, the overhaul of Southland which created Promenade is now 30+ years old and I don’t see that it’s really gotten much of a recent facelift to keep it relevant.  Any bets on how much longer JCP and Dillard’s stay open there?

That kind of shocked me at first that Promenade was done 30 years ago, for some reason it didn't seem that long ago. I think JCP and Dillard's may have some more life left in them since there are enough people between 41st & Yale going towards downtown and north and east of it, and Woodland covers south Tulsa. As for them closing the 21st & Yale Sears it's probably because it's cheaper renting at Woodland than owning a freestanding store.

I remember reading an article in a trade magazine called Teleconnect back in 1994, when they were discussing the shopping revolution that was going to happen once the internet was widely available, and that it could be the end of the brick and mortar stores, and you would shop in a virtual mall. I remember chuckling about it thinking it would never happen.

The biggest impact I have seen with Macy's/KMart/JCP closing stores is the effect on the small regional malls in more rural areas where now the nearest ones are now up to a 3 hour drive away.(not everyone here is computer literate, and some can't afford it) We have a Sears here, but it is some quasi franchise arrangement and it's about the size of a CVS/Walgreen's and all they sell are tools/lawn & garden/appliances/TV's and beds.
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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2017, 09:10:17 am »

That kind of shocked me at first that Promenade was done 30 years ago, for some reason it didn't seem that long ago. I think JCP and Dillard's may have some more life left in them since there are enough people between 41st & Yale going towards downtown and north and east of it, and Woodland covers south Tulsa. As for them closing the 21st & Yale Sears it's probably because it's cheaper renting at Woodland than owning a freestanding store.

I remember reading an article in a trade magazine called Teleconnect back in 1994, when they were discussing the shopping revolution that was going to happen once the internet was widely available, and that it could be the end of the brick and mortar stores, and you would shop in a virtual mall. I remember chuckling about it thinking it would never happen.

The biggest impact I have seen with Macy's/KMart/JCP closing stores is the effect on the small regional malls in more rural areas where now the nearest ones are now up to a 3 hour drive away.(not everyone here is computer literate, and some can't afford it) We have a Sears here, but it is some quasi franchise arrangement and it's about the size of a CVS/Walgreen's and all they sell are tools/lawn & garden/appliances/TV's and beds.
 

There’s a Sears franchise like the one you describe in Trinidad, Colorado and another in Pagosa Springs.  I believe they keep the quickest turn items on the shelf but can order in anything Sears carries which is their big advantage over the traditional Sears monoliths.  Funny you mention that about major shopping areas being three hours away.  It will be exactly like that for us when we move in a few months.  Pueblo and Albuquerque are each 3 hours from us.  Santa Fe is 2 1/2 hours and doesn’t have quite the same big box presence as larger cities.  Fortunately, MC and I aren’t terribly dependent on big box retail and if we cannot get what we need from Raton, Angel Fire, or Taos someone can order in what we need and have it in a matter of days or we can just buy it on line if it is electronics.

Sorry back on topic (Marshall’s!) I believe the renovation which created Promenade stretched from about 1985 to 1990 as I think 1990 is about the time they completed the parking garages.  I worked at the mall while attending classes at TJC during ’86 and ’87 which was the only reason I could even remember when they re-opened it.  In ’86 there weren’t many stores open yet and I remember thinking their timing was really bad as we weren’t that far out of the oil patch and S & L crash. 

It was a huge overhaul.  IIRC, Southland was more along the lines of the big box complexes being built now with seemingly unconnected stores with outward facing store entries, not stores oriented around an indoor walkway.  Southroads was more conventional with indoor entrances but it was converted around that era (maybe closer to the mid-’90’s) to the big box type model.  Rather ironic how that worked out for the two centers, eh?

There was an article not too long ago looking at the abandoned inner-spaces of the old Southroads.

Quote
...on horseback.  Scotchguard some cavalry uniforms and outfit the mounts with WWI gasmask faceguards and your all set.

But actually, Im surprised the 21st and Yale store is the one on the chopping block given its uniqueness.

“This is the only free-standing store of its type in the nation”  says the Whirled.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-sears-had-everything-when-it-moved-to-the/article_ef525501-c34d-5966-a9d1-5c69d72c061e.html

I live a few blocks from there.  Sears has been beyond dead for years in this location and I can’t believe they’ve kept it open this long.  They aren’t even busy during the holidays.  Great opportunity to snap up some bargains on Craftsman products when the start the close-out sale though!
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« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2017, 09:29:56 am »

As part of this round of store closings Sears has sold Craftsman Tools. The hedge fund that owns Sears has "loaned" the company $500 million to stay afloat with their property holdings as collateral. Kenmore and Die Hard are for sale. So all the valuable pieces are being pealed off. I would assume once Kenmore and Die Hard and sold the rest of the stores including all K-Mart stores will close and the buildings themselves will be for sale to be paid back to the hedge fund. It's just a matter of time. Probably well before next Christmas.
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Conan71
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« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2017, 10:50:12 am »

As part of this round of store closings Sears has sold Craftsman Tools. The hedge fund that owns Sears has "loaned" the company $500 million to stay afloat with their property holdings as collateral. Kenmore and Die Hard are for sale. So all the valuable pieces are being pealed off. I would assume once Kenmore and Die Hard and sold the rest of the stores including all K-Mart stores will close and the buildings themselves will be for sale to be paid back to the hedge fund. It's just a matter of time. Probably well before next Christmas.

You’d mentioned K-Mart not being long for the world in east Tulsa.  It was announced on the news last night the K-Mart in Muskogee is closing.
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« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2017, 10:52:25 am »

 

There’s a Sears franchise like the one you describe in Trinidad, Colorado and another in Pagosa Springs.  I believe they keep the quickest turn items on the shelf but can order in anything Sears carries which is their big advantage over the traditional Sears monoliths.  Funny you mention that about major shopping areas being three hours away.  It will be exactly like that for us when we move in a few months.  Pueblo and Albuquerque are each 3 hours from us.  Santa Fe is 2 1/2 hours and doesn’t have quite the same big box presence as larger cities.  Fortunately, MC and I aren’t terribly dependent on big box retail and if we cannot get what we need from Raton, Angel Fire, or Taos someone can order in what we need and have it in a matter of days or we can just buy it on line if it is electronics.

Sorry back on topic (Marshall’s!) I believe the renovation which created Promenade stretched from about 1985 to 1990 as I think 1990 is about the time they completed the parking garages.  I worked at the mall while attending classes at TJC during ’86 and ’87 which was the only reason I could even remember when they re-opened it.  In ’86 there weren’t many stores open yet and I remember thinking their timing was really bad as we weren’t that far out of the oil patch and S & L crash. 

It was a huge overhaul.  IIRC, Southland was more along the lines of the big box complexes being built now with seemingly unconnected stores with outward facing store entries, not stores oriented around an indoor walkway.  Southroads was more conventional with indoor entrances but it was converted around that era (maybe closer to the mid-’90’s) to the big box type model.  Rather ironic how that worked out for the two centers, eh?

There was an article not too long ago looking at the abandoned inner-spaces of the old Southroads.

I live a few blocks from there.  Sears has been beyond dead for years in this location and I can’t believe they’ve kept it open this long.  They aren’t even busy during the holidays.  Great opportunity to snap up some bargains on Craftsman products when the start the close-out sale though!


I remember Southland and South Roads being converted (I moved away in 1998) just forgot that it had been that long. It has been interesting watching the change from indoor malls to outdoor mall/power centers like Desert Ridge in north Phoenix. I think the indoor mall to an extent is pretty much done, they will survive somewhat in areas with temperature extremes but they are dying off. There is a website "deadmalls.com" that has a long list of now gone malls.
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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2017, 10:57:52 am »

As part of this round of store closings Sears has sold Craftsman Tools. The hedge fund that owns Sears has "loaned" the company $500 million to stay afloat with their property holdings as collateral. Kenmore and Die Hard are for sale. So all the valuable pieces are being pealed off. I would assume once Kenmore and Die Hard and sold the rest of the stores including all K-Mart stores will close and the buildings themselves will be for sale to be paid back to the hedge fund. It's just a matter of time. Probably well before next Christmas.

Craftsman Tools have been in Ace Hardware stores for a while, and one thing I forgot about the 21st and Yale Sears is that there is a Lowe's right next door and I can imagine that sucked the life out of Sears hardware, what was left, and with Autozone and O'Rielly for batteries, and Discount Tires for tires and Robertson Tire for more full service, I'm surprised the auto center lasted this long.
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« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2017, 11:25:39 am »

Craftsman Tools have been in Ace Hardware stores for a while, and one thing I forgot about the 21st and Yale Sears is that there is a Lowe's right next door and I can imagine that sucked the life out of Sears hardware, what was left, and with Autozone and O'Rielly for batteries, and Discount Tires for tires and Robertson Tire for more full service, I'm surprised the auto center lasted this long.

A bit of thread drift (not really since you mentioned them in your previous post) I had my first business transaction with Robertson Tire in November for a set of four tires.  Some of the nicest and friendly people you'll meet.  Great prices too.  They'll match from wherever.
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« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2017, 11:49:30 am »

Craftsman Tools have been in Ace Hardware stores for a while, and one thing I forgot about the 21st and Yale Sears is that there is a Lowe's right next door and I can imagine that sucked the life out of Sears hardware, what was left, and with Autozone and O'Rielly for batteries, and Discount Tires for tires and Robertson Tire for more full service, I'm surprised the auto center lasted this long.

The auto center isn't closing. I would expect them to be sold off as a independent chain as well.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2017, 12:12:37 pm »

The auto center isn't closing. I would expect them to be sold off as a independent chain as well.

I stand corrected. Thanks.
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