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June 16, 2019, 06:34:11 am
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Author Topic: Wikileaks = terrorist organization?  (Read 18785 times)
patric
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« Reply #120 on: November 16, 2018, 10:49:30 am »

Julian Assange Is Secretly Charged in U.S., Prosecutors Mistakenly Reveal

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department has secretly filed criminal charges against the WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange, a person familiar with the case said, a drastic escalation of the government’s yearslong battle with him and his anti-secrecy group.

The disclosure came as the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, is investigating links between President Trump’s associates and Russia’s 2016 election interference. WikiLeaks published thousands of emails that year from Democrats during the presidential race that were stolen by Russian intelligence officers. The hackings were a major part of Moscow’s campaign of disruption.

Though the legal move against Mr. Assange remained a mystery on Thursday, charges centering on the publication of information of public interest — even if it was obtained from Russian government hackers — would create a precedent with profound implications for press freedoms.

Barry Pollack, an American lawyer representing Mr. Assange, denounced the apparent development.

“The news that criminal charges have apparently been filed against Mr. Assange is even more troubling than the haphazard manner in which that information has been revealed,” Mr. Pollack wrote in an email. “The government bringing criminal charges against someone for publishing truthful information is a dangerous path for a democracy to take.”

A Justice Department spokesman declined to say on Thursday what led to the inadvertent disclosure...suggesting that prosecutors had inadvertently pasted text from a similar court filing into the wrong document and then filed it.

But even as the Obama administration brought criminal charges in an unprecedented number of leak-related cases, it apparently held back from charging Mr. Assange. Members of the Obama legal policy team from that era have said that they did not want to establish a precedent that could chill investigative reporting about national security matters by treating it as a crime.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/16/us/politics/julian-assange-indictment-wikileaks.html
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #121 on: November 16, 2018, 01:12:49 pm »



Barry Pollack, an American lawyer representing Mr. Assange, denounced the apparent development.

“The news that criminal charges have apparently been filed against Mr. Assange is even more troubling than the haphazard manner in which that information has been revealed,” Mr. Pollack wrote in an email. “The government bringing criminal charges against someone for publishing truthful information is a dangerous path for a democracy to take.”




And who still thinks we are not moving away from democracy ?



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« Reply #122 on: November 16, 2018, 01:55:00 pm »

And who still thinks we are not moving away from democracy ?

I will respectfully disagree, particularly in this case.  There is a lot of true information that is important to our Nation that it be kept secret.   I do not doubt that the information Wikileaks posted it true, but it has also been (in various ways) harmful the Nation.  A blanket statement that all true information should be public is simply not a viable position.
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patric
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« Reply #123 on: November 16, 2018, 04:57:46 pm »

I will respectfully disagree, particularly in this case.  There is a lot of true information that is important to our Nation that it be kept secret.   I do not doubt that the information Wikileaks posted it true, but it has also been (in various ways) harmful the Nation.  A blanket statement that all true information should be public is simply not a viable position.

Im mostly in agreement, but historically a lot of things that have been sheltered under the wing of necessary secrecy has been plain-old CYA.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #124 on: November 16, 2018, 09:16:46 pm »

I will respectfully disagree, particularly in this case.  There is a lot of true information that is important to our Nation that it be kept secret.   I do not doubt that the information Wikileaks posted it true, but it has also been (in various ways) harmful the Nation.  A blanket statement that all true information should be public is simply not a viable position.



How?  Examples...  Fake Fox News is about the only place saying something bad may come of it yet...!   After all these years.   Like maybe a Republican may not get elected sometime??



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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
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« Reply #125 on: November 19, 2018, 10:23:06 am »

How?  Examples...  Fake Fox News is about the only place saying something bad may come of it yet...!   After all these years.   Like maybe a Republican may not get elected sometime??

This is not GOP or DEM.  Obama also prosecuted govt leakers.    I was responding to the blanket statement: "The government bringing criminal charges against someone for publishing truthful information is a dangerous path for a democracy to take.”  This is simply not a viable position.   The US govt has data that is true, but should be kept secret.  Every country does.  (and, every state, every city, every business, etc...)  All information is not public, regardless of validity.   It is not up to Assange, or any other private individual, to decide to make public what is held secret by the govt.  

Patrick does have a good point, in that a lot of "secret" stuff should not really be secret, but again, there are processes for addressing that.   I am not questioning the rightness or wrongness of what Assange did, as it definitely depends on a point of view. But legally, he should expect to have charges filed.

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #126 on: November 26, 2018, 11:03:02 am »

This is not GOP or DEM.  Obama also prosecuted govt leakers.    I was responding to the blanket statement: "The government bringing criminal charges against someone for publishing truthful information is a dangerous path for a democracy to take.”  This is simply not a viable position.   The US govt has data that is true, but should be kept secret.  Every country does.  (and, every state, every city, every business, etc...)  All information is not public, regardless of validity.   It is not up to Assange, or any other private individual, to decide to make public what is held secret by the govt.  

Patrick does have a good point, in that a lot of "secret" stuff should not really be secret, but again, there are processes for addressing that.   I am not questioning the rightness or wrongness of what Assange did, as it definitely depends on a point of view. But legally, he should expect to have charges filed.




True - there should be secrets.  And at exactly the same time, what America (US) needs is more free speech!

As for the process of addressing that - it is so horribly broken that yes, it is one or two or a very few making that decision.  And it ain't Assange....


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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
patric
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« Reply #127 on: April 11, 2019, 10:27:51 am »

WikiLeaks-founder Julian Assange will be punished for embarrassing the DC establishment

“He is our property.” Those celebratory words of Sen. Joe Manchin (D, W.V.) came on CNN soon after the news of the arrest of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange at the Ecuadorian embassy in London. It was a sentiment shared by virtually everyone in Washington from Congress to the intelligence services. Assange committed the unpardonable sins of embarrassing the establishment — from members of Congress to intelligence officials to the media. And he will now be punished for our sins. Despite having significant constitutional arguments to be made, it is likely that he will be stripped of those defenses and even barred from raising the overall context of his actions in federal court. What could be the most important free speech and free press case in our history could well be reduced to the scope and substance of an unauthorized computer access case.

For years, the public has debated what Assange is: a journalist? a whistleblower? a foreign agent? a dupe? The problem is that Assange is first and foremost a publisher.

Moreover, he was doing something that is usually heralded in the media. He disclosed a massive and arguably unconstitutional surveillance program by the United States impacting virtually every citizen. He later published emails that showed that the Democratic National Committee and the campaign of Hillary Clinton lied in various statements to the public, including the rigging of the primary for her nomination. No one has argued that any of these emails were false. They were embarrassing. Of course, there is not crime of embarrassing the establishment but that is merely a technicality.

The criminal charge against Assange filed in Alexandria federal court was crafted to circumvent the obvious constitutional problems in prosecuting him. The charge is revealing. He is charged with a single count for his alleged involvement in the hacking operation of Chelsea Manning in 2010.

By alleging that Assange actively played a role in the hacking operation, the government is seeking to portray him as part of the theft rather than the distribution of the information. The prosecutors say that Assange helped Manning secure a password to gain access to additional information. If true, that would be a step that most media organizations would not take.

It is likely that there will be a superseding indictment once Assange is successfully extradicted to the United States. Moreover, the Justice Department is likely to move aggressively to strip Assange of his core defenses. Through what is called a motion in limine, the government will ask the court to declare that the disclosure of the arguably unconstitutional surveillance program is immaterial.

That would leave Assange with only the ability to challenge whether he helped with passwords and little or no opportunity to present evidence of his motivations or the threat to privacy. For the jury, they could simply be faced with some Australian guy who helped with passwords in hacking national security information. It would be like trying a man for breaking and entering while barring evidence that the house was on fire and he thought he was rescuing people instead.

They will punish Assange for their sins

The key to the prosecution of Assange has always been to punish him without again embarrassing the powerful figures made mockeries by his disclosures. That means to keep him from discussing how the U.S. government launched an unprecedented surveillance program that scooped up the emails and communications of citizens without a warrant or probable cause. He cannot discuss how Democratic and Republican members either were complicit or incompetent in their oversight. He cannot discuss how the public was lied to about the program.

A glimpse of that artificial scope was seen within minutes of the arrest. CNN brought on its national security analyst, James Clapper, former Director of National Intelligence. CNN never mentioned that Clapper was accused of perjury in denying the existence of the surveillance program and was personally implicated in the scandal that Wikileaks triggered. He was asked directly before Congress “Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?” Clapper responded, “No, sir. … Not wittingly.” Later, Clapper said that his testimony was “the least untruthful” statement he could make. That would still make it a lie, of course, but this is Washington and people like Clapper are untouchable. In the view of the establishment, Assange is the problem.

Washington needs to silence Assange

So, on CNN, Clapper was allowed to explain (without any hint of self-awareness or contradiction) that Assange has “caused us all kinds of grief in the intelligence community.” Indeed, few people seriously believe that the government is aggrieved about password protection. The grief was the disclosure of an abusive surveillance program and a long record of lies to the American people. Assange will be convicted of the felony of causing embarrassment in the first degree.

Notably, no one went to jail or was fired for the surveillance programs. Those in charge of failed Congressional oversight were reelected. Clapper was never charged with perjury. Even figures shown to have lied in the Clinton emails, like former CNN commentator Donna Brazile (who lied about giving Clinton’s campaign questions in advance of the presidential debates), are now back on television. However, Assange could well do time.

With Assange’s extradition, all will be well again in Washington. As Manchin declared, he is their “property” and will be punished for his sins. Once he is hoisted as a wretch, few will again entertain such hubris in the future.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/04/11/wikileaks-julian-assange-nsa-extradition-hacking-chelsea-manning-nobel-column/3434034002/

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Conan71
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« Reply #128 on: April 12, 2019, 12:46:37 pm »

Everyone lost their collective sh!t over Valerie Plame being outed as a national scandal and Plame still claims this hurt more than just her.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/04/18/i-was-outed-as-a-cia-covert-ops-officer-why-it-matters-that-trump-pardoned-scooter-libby/?utm_term=.a06ababf4506

How many people has Julian Assange compromised and endangered by stealing and exposing confidential information?  I fail to see how this assclown sexual predator is some sort of international hero.
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« Reply #129 on: April 13, 2019, 08:18:25 am »


How many people has Julian Assange compromised and endangered by stealing and exposing confidential information?  I fail to see how this assclown sexual predator is some sort of international hero.


Compromised who?   By saying they were performing illegal acts.  Yeah, I guess that could, in a alternate universe, rule of law country, hurt the people doing those things, because in that fantasy world, those doing that would be prosecuted, convicted, and punished.   But they really have nothing to worry about here, so exactly where is the harm he did?


He is a "hero" (not really);

In exactly the same way Oliver North is a "great American hero".  According to Fake Fox News.

Or the same way that Pedophile in Chief, Donald Trump is a "great" President.  (As in pretty much one of the worst ever.)  You phrased it perfectly; "assclown sexual predator".

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
Conan71
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« Reply #130 on: April 13, 2019, 07:05:12 pm »


Compromised who?   By saying they were performing illegal acts.  Yeah, I guess that could, in a alternate universe, rule of law country, hurt the people doing those things, because in that fantasy world, those doing that would be prosecuted, convicted, and punished.   But they really have nothing to worry about here, so exactly where is the harm he did?


He is a "hero" (not really);

In exactly the same way Oliver North is a "great American hero".  According to Fake Fox News.

Or the same way that Pedophile in Chief, Donald Trump is a "great" President.  (As in pretty much one of the worst ever.)  You phrased it perfectly; "assclown sexual predator".



Exactly what equivocation is there about Ollie and Drumpf other than your Fake Faux News usual narrative?

ASSange literally released thousands upon thousands of classified documents into the public domain.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #131 on: April 13, 2019, 09:04:37 pm »

Exactly what equivocation is there about Ollie and Drumpf other than your Fake Faux News usual narrative?

ASSange literally released thousands upon thousands of classified documents into the public domain.


Both committing serial Federal felonies and both being rewarded for it by Minions.


None of which have been shown to have any adverse effect whatsoever to the security of the US.  Except for 'bad publicity' that should have created an uproar against both the security agencies breaking the law AND the Clinton campaign - which didn't actually break any law, but did some seriously crappy stuff to Sanders.

Maybe I missed your indignation, outrage, and condemnation against illegal actions by government agencies detailed in those whistleblower released documents??  Links?


As for Fake Fox News - well, again, all I have to do is copy/paste what Trump and his Minions say.  Make tiny little edits to make them valid and true.  And wait for disparagement - "usual narrative".   Again, indignation, outrage, and condemnation against 'you know' what...?

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
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