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Author Topic: President Trump- The Implications  (Read 61167 times)
cannon_fodder
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« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2016, 08:25:05 am »

No. The groups always assimilate. The larger mass pulls them in and we change them, as they change us marginally in their direction. It is inevitable.

I thought my point was clear - this isn't anything new. It is ugly, hateful, and unnecessary. If anything, it is counter productive and encourages the group being persecuted to avoid natives, and thus delay assimilation.














(at the time it was understood that this was directed at the Poles)




Shall I print up some pictures of Mexicans with water dripping from their backs, buck teeth, and a fistful of stolen American dollars - maybe raping some white women in the back of a taco truck?  You know, some good ole' fashioned bigotry, to encourage them to assimilate. Then again... groups that did not face overt hostility assimilated too. Almost like being a racist jerk isn't required...

Additionally, even in large countries that are multi-lingual, a dominant language takes hold. See, for example, all of Europe - where over time the nations merged on a common language in spite of most countries having several native tongues.  Also in China, India, Indonesia, the Philippines, Russia and all over Africa. Basically, anywhere people are a common language eventually dominates. Mono-linguistics is a huge weakness for Americans, not a strength. According to most scientific analysis, we are actually held back in many regards because of it (speaking more than one language increases your cognitive abilities such as problem-solving, creativity, and memory).

This isn't a real issue. Assimilation is as old as America. There is no reason to believe a 300 year trend will suddenly stop.  People for 300 years have argued that we have to stop the immigrants because they will never assimilate. They were all wrong. You're wrong too.  So don't pretend racism and bigotry is a good thing because it helps bind America together.
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swake
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« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2016, 08:46:33 am »

What is the inference about the people who voted for the corrupt white heterosexual female who assisted in covering up multiple sexual assaults by a previous POTUS?

Perhaps they didn't want a White Nationalist as the top advisor to the President. Nor a science denying racist as AG that wants to evict all 11 million illegals from this country and wants to end LEGAL immigration. Or not have as the top person over domestic policy transition a man employed by a designated anti-gay hate group. Or someone over environmental policy that thinks that more greenhouse gasses are good. Or a often confused doctor with zero qualifications over housing, or Mary freaking Fallon over Interior.


And that's aside from the President Elects now admitted years of self dealing from his foundation that was required to shut down by the state of New York. Not to mention that he is now paying a million dollars in fines and 25 million in restitution over his fraudulent "University", and now his unwillingness to separate his business from his office. Plus of course his own sexual assaults and rape. And Trump's victims include children.

You see, there's not a moral equivalency between being married to a man who committed to sexual assault and being a man who has committed sexual assault and rape. We don't lock up wives of men who are criminals. I don't see the right going after Melania certainly and she has said far worse publicly about Trump's victims than Hillary ever did.

Give it six months, it's going to be damn hard to find an admitted Trump voter. He's already projected to lose the popular vote by 2.5 million votes, the polls weren't really that wrong except in certainly swing states, and some people are finding irregularities in those states electronic voting machines in certain areas. I hope we haven't been hacked. Or hacked more than Russia already did to elect this orange disaster.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 08:49:10 am by swake » Logged
swake
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« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2016, 09:05:21 am »

Now Trump has nominated Nikki Haley as Ambassador to the UN.

She is the current governor of a small and mostly rural state. Before entering politics she worked for her mother's clothing shop and has a bachelors degree from Clemson in Accounting.

She has exactly zero education or experience in International Relations or Diplomacy and is now going to be one of our most important diplomats. Nothing could go wrong there.
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erfalf
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« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2016, 09:53:08 am »

We don't lock up wives of men who are criminals.

Sometime we do. Abetting criminals is also a crime.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2016, 09:55:45 am »

I'm confused. I can't say I dislike the governor of SC in any way, I'm just really confused. Why would she be a candidate for UN Ambassador?

Here is her resume:

- BS in accounting
- Book keeper for her mom's clothing store
- Accountant for a waste management company
- Controller and then CEO of Exotica International, mom's clothing store. Described as "a major clothing retailer in the Midlands of South Carolina." Annual rev $1.8mil.
- 2004 - 2010 SC State House of Representatives
- 2010 - 2016, governor of SC

Accomplishments:
- Took down Confederate Flag after a white supremacist murdered black church-goers
- Voter ID law
- Refused to sign a "bathroom bill"

Positions on international issues:
- none known

Political expirience outside of SC:
- None

Diplomatic experience:
- None


Here is a list of previous US Ambassadors to the UN:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Ambassador_to_the_United_Nations#List_of_Ambassadors

Samantha Jane Power - international journalist, taught human rights and international relations at Harvard, later taught Global Leadership and Public Policy at Harvard, adviser to Senator Obama, presidential director of human rights to the UN...

Rosemary DiCarlo - US ambassador to Russia, Norway, career foreign services member...

Susan Rice - Brookings Institute fellow for international diplomacy, assistant secretary of state for African Affairs, National Security Council...

Zalmay Khalilzad - Counselor at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, president of an international business consulting firm, adviser to GW Bush, US Ambassador to Afghanistan, US Ambassador to Iraq...

Alejandro Daniel Wolff - US Ambasador to Chili, deputy US representative to the UN, Deputy of Policy Planning for Ronald Regan, Office of Soviet Affairs, Under Secretary for Political Affairs, Assistant Secretary of State for Albright and Powell, US Foreign service in Algeria, Morocco, Chile, Cypris, EU, and France...


DO YOU SEE A TREND HERE?   Maybe, it is seen as a very important job. Like, world peace life and death, world influencing type of stuff. Maybe someone with diplomatic experience should be considered?
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erfalf
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« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2016, 09:55:56 am »

Now Trump has nominated Nikki Haley as Ambassador to the UN.

She is the current governor of a small and mostly rural state. Before entering politics she worked for her mother's clothing shop and has a bachelors degree from Clemson in Accounting.

She has exactly zero education or experience in International Relations or Diplomacy and is now going to be one of our most important diplomats. Nothing could go wrong there.

What qualifications did her predecessor have that made her such a blazing success? Or does being an author and academic better suite one to be a diplomat? Come on. More of this sky is falling BS. You know, eventually something is going to be a real problem, and I won't believe you. You can only cry wolf so many times.
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Conan71
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« Reply #51 on: November 23, 2016, 10:20:25 am »

Perhaps they didn't want a White Nationalist as the top advisor to the President. Nor a science denying racist as AG that wants to evict all 11 million illegals from this country and wants to end LEGAL immigration. Or not have as the top person over domestic policy transition a man employed by a designated anti-gay hate group. Or someone over environmental policy that thinks that more greenhouse gasses are good. Or a often confused doctor with zero qualifications over housing, or Mary freaking Fallon over Interior.


And that's aside from the President Elects now admitted years of self dealing from his foundation that was required to shut down by the state of New York. Not to mention that he is now paying a million dollars in fines and 25 million in restitution over his fraudulent "University", and now his unwillingness to separate his business from his office. Plus of course his own sexual assaults and rape. And Trump's victims include children.

You see, there's not a moral equivalency between being married to a man who committed to sexual assault and being a man who has committed sexual assault and rape. We don't lock up wives of men who are criminals. I don't see the right going after Melania certainly and she has said far worse publicly about Trump's victims than Hillary ever did.

Give it six months, it's going to be damn hard to find an admitted Trump voter. He's already projected to lose the popular vote by 2.5 million votes, the polls weren't really that wrong except in certainly swing states, and some people are finding irregularities in those states electronic voting machines in certain areas. I hope we haven't been hacked. Or hacked more than Russia already did to elect this orange disaster.

We get it swake, you have a sad because Trump got elected.  Deal with it.  Life is a whole lot bigger than Donald Trump and who the POTUS is.  Brown shirts aren’t going to go house to house rounding up brown people, mooslims, Jews, and teh gheys.  Do you remember the biggest fear of redneck ‘Merca with Obama in the WH was his minions going house to house rounding up firearms and ammo?  Didn’t happen.  

I think we can agree both candidates had a ton of character flaws.  Trying to claim one is less flawed than the other is a fool’s errand.

Quit blaming white racist supporters for Trump being in office and go apeshit on your party which tilted the playing field in Hillary’s favor for nomination because it was “her turn”.  I honestly cannot say if Bernie could have beaten Trump or not.  Young, handsome, and dynamic was the successful formula which lead to Democrat control of the White House from ’61 to ’63, ’93 to 2001, and 2009 to 2017.  Don’t tell me there’s not someone in the wings who fits that description in the Democratic party.

Back to the implications of a Trump presidency as the thread title states:

It does appear Trump is softening his rhetoric from the campaign.  For starters, I’m encouraged he doesn’t intend to run a circle-jerk investigation of the Clintons.  This along with some other comments which are coming out gives me hope he will be a moderate.  After all, he was a New York liberal before he was a conservative.

His cabinet selections and other appointments do seem a bit odd.  If I were going to offer Ben Carson any job in my administration, it would be more in line with his expertise.  Oh I dunno, maybe Surgeon General since he does have a degree in medicine and practiced medicine.  I do agree with swake’s take on Nikki Haley being a puzzling pick as our UN ambassador.  Perhaps this is all a gambit on not wanting “lifers” with the inside track on jobs but rather people who might approach that job with a willingness to be flexible.  Or perhaps there is something he sees in each individual which makes them ideal for a job that we don’t.  It’s not like evaluating skills and delegating responsibility to the right people is something new to him.  He has run a rather large business empire for 40+ years so I would give him credit for having some idea on how to staff up.

My personal hope is we will look back and find he ended up being pretty middle of the road.  I’m at least willing to wait and see how his policy and staffing decisions play out.  He’s been elected, we really don’t have much more choice than that, do we?  I don’t care to walk around all balled up for the next four years because my guy lost.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 10:26:54 am by Conan71 » Logged

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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2016, 10:27:03 am »

What qualifications did her predecessor have that made her such a blazing success? Or does being an author and academic better suite one to be a diplomat? Come on. More of this sky is falling BS. You know, eventually something is going to be a real problem, and I won't believe you. You can only cry wolf so many times.

Samantha Jane Power, UN Ambassador

- Born in London, Raised in Ireland, immigrated to the US and lived in Pittsburgh and Atlanta before attending Yale,, going overseas, attending Harvard, etc.
- BA from Yale in history
- JD from Harvard Law
- international journalist, very well traveled
- Published author and Pulitzer prize winner on issues of human rights and foreign affairs
- Founding Executive Director of the Carr Center for Human Rights Policy at the Harvard Kennedy School
- Anna Lindh Professor of Practice of Global Leadership and Public Policy at Harvard University
- Adviser on international affairs to US Senator Obama
- Presidential director of human rights to the UN


That seems like a pretty good resume to be a UN ambassador, no?  I'm not saying this SC woman will be a poor job, just a bizzaro pick. It just seems you would want someone with some experience, interest, or idea of what they are getting into. I hope she does really well, and I don't see a serious concern or flags on her personally, just a very strange appointment.  Like appointing me to the Supreme Court or Patric to head the Department of Energy.

Of course, Carson to HUD makes no sense either. The guy has as much knowledge on urban development as I do on brain surgery.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 10:31:27 am by cannon_fodder » Logged

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swake
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« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2016, 10:29:06 am »

Sometime we do. Abetting criminals is also a crime.

Ken Starr spent years and many millions of dollars to investigate all those claims against Bill and found nothing he could even charge Bill with, much less Hillary. All he found was the Bill lied on a deposition in a civil case. So there's nothing there to abet.

Trump paid off Ivana in their divorce settlement to kill the rape allegation she made under oath in her deposition and then had the records sealed. Trump said on tape he liked to go into the dressing rooms of his parents and check out the hot naked girls. Five girls from Miss Teen USA verified that he had done that to them, and some of them were naked and as young s 15.
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swake
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« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2016, 10:36:40 am »

We get it swake, you have a sad because Trump got elected.  Deal with it.  Life is a whole lot bigger than Donald Trump and who the POTUS is.  Brown shirts aren’t going to go house to house rounding up brown people, mooslims, Jews, and teh gheys.  Do you remember the biggest fear of redneck ‘Merca with Obama in the WH was his minions going house to house rounding up firearms and ammo?  Didn’t happen.  

I think we can agree both candidates had a ton of character flaws.  Trying to claim one is less flawed than the other is a fool’s errand.

Quit blaming white racist supporters for Trump being in office and go apeshit on your party which tilted the playing field in Hillary’s favor for nomination because it was “her turn”.  I honestly cannot say if Bernie could have beaten Trump or not.  Young, handsome, and dynamic was the successful formula which lead to Democrat control of the White House from ’61 to ’63, ’93 to 2001, and 2009 to 2017.  Don’t tell me there’s not someone in the wings who fits that description in the Democratic party.

Back to the implications of a Trump presidency as the thread title states:

It does appear Trump is softening his rhetoric from the campaign.  For starters, I’m encouraged he doesn’t intend to run a circle-jerk investigation of the Clintons.  This along with some other comments which are coming out gives me hope he will be a moderate.  After all, he was a New York liberal before he was a conservative.

His cabinet selections and other appointments do seem a bit odd.  If I were going to offer Ben Carson any job in my administration, it would be more in line with his expertise.  Oh I dunno, maybe Surgeon General since he does have a degree in medicine and practiced medicine.  I do agree with swake’s take on Nikki Haley being a puzzling pick as our UN ambassador.  Perhaps this is all a gambit on not wanting “lifers” with the inside track on jobs but rather people who might approach that job with a willingness to be flexible.  Or perhaps there is something he sees in each individual which makes them ideal for a job that we don’t.  It’s not like evaluating skills and delegating responsibility to the right people is something new to him.  He has run a rather large business empire for 40+ years so I would give him credit for having some idea on how to staff up.

My personal hope is we will look back and find he ended up being pretty middle of the road.  I’m at least willing to wait and see how his policy and staffing decisions play out.  He’s been elected, we really don’t have much more choice than that, do we?  I don’t care to walk around all balled up for the next four years because my guy lost.

I'm not huge on Hillary and I'm no Berniebot. The idea that the primaries were rigged for Clinton is largely crap, most of the emails that were leaked were sent out after the ugly Nevada primary and you can't blame party officials for not liking a candidate that wasn't even a Democrat a month before he declared and them spent months  trashing the party he just joined so he could run. Bernie is a jerk and a demagogue. Much like Trump minus the bigoty and White Nationalism.

I wanted Warren to run and I think she would have won. I think she will run in four years.
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erfalf
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« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2016, 10:39:58 am »

Ken Starr spent years and many millions of dollars to investigate all those claims against Bill and found nothing he could even charge Bill with, much less Hillary. All he found was the Bill lied on a deposition in a civil case. So there's nothing there to abet.

Trump paid off Ivana in their divorce settlement to kill the rape allegation she made under oath in her deposition and then had the records sealed. Trump said on tape he liked to go into the dressing rooms of his parents and check out the hot naked girls. Five girls from Miss Teen USA verified that he had done that to them, and some of them were naked and as young s 15.

Yet he's not in jail. Are you going to spend just as much time and money howling at the moon. Or are prosecutors just dumber than you?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 10:42:11 am by erfalf » Logged

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swake
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« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2016, 10:40:39 am »

Samantha Jane Power, UN Ambassador

- Born in London, Raised in Ireland, immigrated to the US and lived in Pittsburgh and Atlanta before attending Yale,, going overseas, attending Harvard, etc.
- BA from Yale in history
- JD from Harvard Law
- international journalist, very well traveled
- Published author and Pulitzer prize winner on issues of human rights and foreign affairs
- Founding Executive Director of the Carr Center for Human Rights Policy at the Harvard Kennedy School
- Anna Lindh Professor of Practice of Global Leadership and Public Policy at Harvard University
- Adviser on international affairs to US Senator Obama
- Presidential director of human rights to the UN


That seems like a pretty good resume to be a UN ambassador, no?  I'm not saying this SC woman will be a poor job, just a bizzaro pick. It just seems you would want someone with some experience, interest, or idea of what they are getting into. I hope she does really well, and I don't see a serious concern or flags on her personally, just a very strange appointment.  Like appointing me to the Supreme Court or Patric to head the Department of Energy.

Of course, Carson to HUD makes no sense either. The guy has as much knowledge on urban development as I do on brain surgery.



I have nothing against Haley, I don't agree with her much, but that's ok. I think she would have been a solid appointment to a position that she was qualified for, something that she dealt with as Governor. Ambassador to the UN just makes no sense. Like Conan said, Carson would probably be a decent Surgeon General, though I do think he's a bit of a loon, but as the head of HUD he makes no sense. He doesn't even have much leadership experience.
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swake
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« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2016, 10:43:20 am »

Yet he's not in jail. Are you going to spend just as much time and money howling at the moon. Or are prosecutes just dumber than you?

Give it time, he's never been under the microscope that the Clintons have been for decades. All these allegations just came out and Allred and her daughter are on retainer for many of them.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2016, 10:56:38 am »

Do you remember the biggest fear of redneck ‘Merca with Obama in the WH was his minions going house to house rounding up firearms and ammo?  Didn’t happen.  

But Obama never said he was going to take anyone's guns away, never appointed anyone with a legacy of trying to take someones guns away, and never took any steps in an attempt to take anyone's guns away.

The Trump campaign has said it wants to go after "the others" (be them Muslims, immigrants, gays, etc.) in various fashions and has appointed people who have a history of agreeing with and actually doing so. It isn't a baseless fear. It is probably an exaggerated fear - but, for example, both Pence and the newly appointed AG have called for a Constitutional Amendment to roll back gay rights, and they are now in positions of great power.  Will they get their Amendment, no. Not with 66% of Americans favoring gay rights, but they certainly are no friend to LGBTQ issues.

If Obama would said he wants to take your guns and gone on to appoint people who had previously pushed for repeal of the 2nd Amendment, THEN we would have a similar situation and I would understand people freaking out for 8 years. There is a difference between conspiracy theorist consistently saying someone is going to do something hostile, and being able to point to things politicians said and appear to be taking steps to put into action.


The fear was Trump would follow through on much or some of his rhetoric. That he would appoint loyalists, people who buy into the most extreme rhetoric, or people that make no sense for the given position. That he wouldn't live up to promises of a blind trust, that nepotism and cronyism would pervade. And so far, that seems to be exactly what's he is doing.

Hell, just yesterday Trump said "there is no such thing as a conflict of interest for the President of the United States," the day after telling foreign officials they should stay at Trump Hotels when wanting to business with his administration.  I'm really trying to move on, there hasn't been any true disasters yet and I am confident that he can't accomplish his most damaging ambitions, but the warning signs keep dragging me back in.  THIS IS NOT NORMAL.
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Ed W
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« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2016, 11:14:25 am »

Perhaps they didn't want a White Nationalist as the top advisor to the President. Nor a science denying racist as AG that wants to evict all 11 million illegals from this country and wants to end LEGAL immigration. Or not have as the top person over domestic policy transition a man employed by a designated anti-gay hate group. Or someone over environmental policy that thinks that more greenhouse gasses are good. Or a often confused doctor with zero qualifications over housing, or Mary freaking Fallon over Interior. ......

Give it six months, it's going to be damn hard to find an admitted Trump voter. He's already projected to lose the popular vote by 2.5 million votes, the polls weren't really that wrong except in certainly swing states, and some people are finding irregularities in those states electronic voting machines in certain areas. I hope we haven't been hacked. Or hacked more than Russia already did to elect this orange disaster.

In a kleptocracy, the minions can be expected to be wildly unqualified, incompetent, and often directly at odds with their positions. But they have one essential quality, and that's loyalty to the strongman who gave them authority and power. It's a quid pro quo. They look the other way as he fleeces the country and they get to do the same provided they never contradict or challenge him.
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"In a democracy, people get the government they deserve"...Joseph de Maistre
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