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November 18, 2017, 03:23:44 pm
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Author Topic: President Trump- The Implications  (Read 60522 times)
davideinstein
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« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2016, 04:06:16 pm »


Or you can just watch the video with him saying it:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q4SDWMnjak
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davideinstein
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« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2016, 04:12:38 pm »

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/21/race-relations-following-trumps-election/

I'm assuming this will only get worse. That's what happens when you elect someone who was a part of one of the largest discrimination lawsuits in history.
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2016, 10:50:01 am »

...it shouldn't take seven to ten years for a someone to become a citizen.

7 to 10 seems a bit long but I have no problem with it being several years.  The requirement for English and some knowledge of our country is fair enough.   Just because US born kids don't learn it in school should not be an excuse for someone who wants to live here as a citizen instead of another country.  I do not think 5 years is unreasonable but it should not take an additional 2 to 5 years because of bureaucracy.  If the person cannot/will not learn English and civics in 5 years, it will just need to take a bit longer.

https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-naturalization/path-us-citizenship

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swake
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« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2016, 11:02:16 am »

7 to 10 seems a bit long but I have no problem with it being several years.  The requirement for English and some knowledge of our country is fair enough.   Just because US born kids don't learn it in school should not be an excuse for someone who wants to live here as a citizen instead of another country.  I do not think 5 years is unreasonable but it should not take an additional 2 to 5 years because of bureaucracy.  If the person cannot/will not learn English and civics in 5 years, it will just need to take a bit longer.

https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-naturalization/path-us-citizenship



Not everyone wants to become a citizen. I have a friend that has lived in the US since he was an infant and to my knowledge has never even been to Jamaica or the UK since he was a small child, which are the countries he technically is a citizen of. He has a green card and has just never bothered to register to become a citizen.

My own grandfather lived here almost 30 years before he became a citizen. I think my father was in high school when my grandfather finally became a citizen. My grandfather was Canadian so there were no language or civics issues for him to need to learn. My father claimed dual citizenship so technically I can too. It's my "get the Trump outta here card" if things go really south.
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Conan71
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« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2016, 11:13:25 am »

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/21/race-relations-following-trumps-election/

I'm assuming this will only get worse. That's what happens when you elect someone who was a part of one of the largest discrimination lawsuits in history.

Race relations weren’t exactly stellar under Obama.  As of a month ago 54% of Americans believed that.  The media does not help with it’s 24/7 fascination with racial discord but Obama missed key opportunities to bring people together after Trayvon Martin, Ferguson, Freddy Gray, etc.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/05/politics/obama-race-relations-poll/

I do note that whites (57%) believe more than blacks (40% which I still find significant with a black president) that racial relations got worse under Obama.  That might explain why Trump energized a group of Americans who felt left behind the last eight years. 

Again people, let’s focus on our similarities instead of our differences.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
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« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2016, 11:17:21 am »

Not everyone wants to become a citizen. I have a friend that has lived in the US since he was an infant and to my knowledge has never even been to Jamaica or the UK since he was a small child, which are the countries he technically is a citizen of. He has a green card and has just never bothered to register to become a citizen.

My own grandfather lived here almost 30 years before he became a citizen. I think my father was in high school when my grandfather finally became a citizen. My grandfather was Canadian so there were no language or civics issues for him to need to learn. My father claimed dual citizenship so technically I can too. It's my "get the Trump outta here card" if things go really south.

I have no problem with (documented) permanent resident aliens.  My great grandmother on my mother's side never became a US citizen. Her daughter, my grandmother (obviously), was born in the US and my great grandmother lived to about age 87.  That was a lot of years of registering at the Post Office.  I do think if you want to live and work here you should be functional in English. My grandfather on my dad's side only spoke Polish when he came here in his late teens.  He learned English and eventually became a US citizen.  I don't care what you speak at home with the exception that English should not be excluded.
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2016, 11:30:34 am »

Again people, let’s focus on our similarities instead of our differences.

I know through training at work that "Diversity" is supposed to help us embrace the differences among us.  Somehow it seems more effective at emphasizing the differences. No one wants to be an American anymore. They all want to be hyphenated Americans.  The melting pot is separating.
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swake
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« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2016, 12:25:32 pm »

I know through training at work that "Diversity" is supposed to help us embrace the differences among us.  Somehow it seems more effective at emphasizing the differences. No one wants to be an American anymore. They all want to be hyphenated Americans.  The melting pot is separating.

No, that’s not true, there have always been “others”. They just weren’t allowed at the table. Now they are and they have a voice too. You shouldn’t be threatened by that.
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« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2016, 04:38:48 pm »

No, that’s not true, there have always been “others”. They just weren’t allowed at the table. Now they are and they have a voice too. You shouldn’t be threatened by that.

You quoted me but I don't believe you addressed my post. 

To answer you.  Yes there have always been "others".  It was not particularly popular to be "Eastern European" in the early 20th Century or even now if you listen to the initial tone on the Ancestry TV commercial.  I even had an electronics instructor in the Navy in the early 70s essentially say all persons of Polish decent were stupid and he never had one do well in his class.  I got an "A".  Groups that want to join the melting pot have contributed and adopted customs, holidays etc.  What I am seeing now seems more like trying to preserve tribes and stay different.  Think tribes in the Middle East.  You may not agree but that is what I see.

I don't feel threatened being an old white guy.  I don't believe the country will go to pieces in my lifetime.  I do resent the implication of the past election by the left leaning talking heads that all old white guys are stupid, racist......

Your results may vary.

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swake
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« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2016, 05:08:39 pm »

You quoted me but I don't believe you addressed my post. 

To answer you.  Yes there have always been "others".  It was not particularly popular to be "Eastern European" in the early 20th Century or even now if you listen to the initial tone on the Ancestry TV commercial.  I even had an electronics instructor in the Navy in the early 70s essentially say all persons of Polish decent were stupid and he never had one do well in his class.  I got an "A".  Groups that want to join the melting pot have contributed and adopted customs, holidays etc.  What I am seeing now seems more like trying to preserve tribes and stay different.  Think tribes in the Middle East.  You may not agree but that is what I see.

I don't feel threatened being an old white guy.  I don't believe the country will go to pieces in my lifetime.  I do resent the implication of the past election by the left leaning talking heads that all old white guys are stupid, racist......

Your results may vary.



When you vote for a racist bigot, the inference is easy to make
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2016, 07:27:06 pm »

This isn't a new argument.

The Protestant settlers thought the Catholics needed to assimilate, particularly those German catholics. The English and Germans thought the Eastern Europeans needed stop with their foolish traditions and assimilate. The Irish were both Catholic and had odd customs, and demands were made that they get with the program! Then there were the Jews, boy oh boy did they need to learn new habits. The Chinese were accused of holding onto their customs and clinging to their own communities.  Slave owners "beat the African" out of their slaves. Native Americans were taken from their homes and forced to learn English and adopt Christianity (very "successful" assimilation story).  Italians were lynched in New Orleans in the 1890s. During WWI German immigrants (many of whom had been here for generations) were told to stop speaking German and be more American.

Each time the last group of immigrants joined in and told the new group that they better assimilate or they will divide the country, as they celebrated St. Patrick's day, made goulash for dinner, stopped by Chinese restaurants, danced to African inspired music, chow down on Italian food, and lament the injustices done to the Native Americans.

Nativism is as old as America. The more hostile the country is towards a particular group, the longer it takes them to assimilate.  It is the same story, "we've" just moved on to different "thems."
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Conan71
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« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2016, 09:14:22 pm »

When you vote for a racist bigot, the inference is easy to make

What is the inference about the people who voted for the corrupt white heterosexual female who assisted in covering up multiple sexual assaults by a previous POTUS?
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2016, 10:02:43 pm »

When you vote for a racist bigot, the inference is easy to make

You are incorrectly assuming all old white guys voted for Trump.  You are only perpetuating the stereotype process.  We won't try to list all the derogatory, discriminatory stereotypes here.  We know what they are.

You need to accept that a large number of voters did not like Hillary, even when considering the alternative of Trump.  You don't have to understand it, just accept it and move on to replacing Congress in 2 years if you think that will help.  

Edit: I am an old white guy and you do not know how I voted.
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« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2016, 10:04:29 pm »

What is the inference about the people who voted for the corrupt white heterosexual female who assisted in covering up multiple sexual assaults by a previous POTUS?

None, she is one of the chosen ones.  She can do no wrong.
 
 Grin

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Red Arrow
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« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2016, 10:15:01 pm »

This isn't a new argument.

The Protestant settlers thought the Catholics needed to assimilate, particularly those German catholics. The English and Germans thought the Eastern Europeans needed stop with their foolish traditions and assimilate. The Irish were both Catholic and had odd customs, and demands were made that they get with the program! Then there were the Jews, boy oh boy did they need to learn new habits. The Chinese were accused of holding onto their customs and clinging to their own communities.  Slave owners "beat the African" out of their slaves. Native Americans were taken from their homes and forced to learn English and adopt Christianity (very "successful" assimilation story).  Italians were lynched in New Orleans in the 1890s. During WWI German immigrants (many of whom had been here for generations) were told to stop speaking German and be more American.

Each time the last group of immigrants joined in and told the new group that they better assimilate or they will divide the country, as they celebrated St. Patrick's day, made goulash for dinner, stopped by Chinese restaurants, danced to African inspired music, chow down on Italian food, and lament the injustices done to the Native Americans.

Nativism is as old as America. The more hostile the country is towards a particular group, the longer it takes them to assimilate.  It is the same story, "we've" just moved on to different "thems."

Are you saying that each new group should have remained in enclaves with nothing in common with each other than 46 (23 pair, I think) chromosomes?  I won't say the "initiation" process was fair.  Assimilation is 2 way in my mind as I attempted to state earlier.  How many languages should we have? English, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French, Farsi (spelling?), Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Norwegian, Swedish, Portuguese, Swahili, and every other immigrant group?  English is the common language in the US, although it was almost German.  Being multi-lingual is great but with so many different languages we really need to have one common language. Being told not to speak another language is not right but I believe a common language is a good goal.  If not, I will learn Polish and demand signs in WalMart and Lowes in Polish.
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