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November 19, 2017, 03:37:08 pm
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Author Topic: Earth Quake 2016  (Read 3500 times)
CharlieSheen
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« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2016, 09:35:18 am »

Nobody can prove with 100% certainty things like this.  Its like if 50 people fired identical guns in the air every day for a million dollars and 10 people got hit in the head with bullets every day.  Which of the 50 guns was it?  Is it something else shooting the people?  You could stop shooting 50 guns in the air every day and lose the million.  But you wouldn't want to do that because then you would be able to prove if you were at fault or not and they would stop you from making your money.  So you keep plowing along.  But now everybody around town has to lease $300 a year helmets with a 10% deductible.
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AquaMan
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« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2016, 09:40:35 am »

There are few certainties in life but we have to work with the best information, the best analysis of that info, and the most logical conclusions. That is what is happening with earthquakes in Oklahoma. If you insist on certainty go with death and taxes.
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sauerkraut
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« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2016, 12:13:14 pm »

I was told by a clerk at the shopping center at 21st & Sheridan that the center suffered a lot of EarthQuake  damage, they had to shore up the overhang. There were cracks and other damage  all along the front face of the building. That's the center that has Big Lots, Chicago Tool and Dollar tree. I was surprised to hear that.
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« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2016, 12:14:24 pm »

I was told by a clerk at the shopping center at 21st & Sheridan that the center suffered a lot of EarthQuake  damage, they had to shore up the overhang. There were cracks and other damage  all along the front face of the building. That's the center that has Big Lots, Chicago Tool and Dollar tree. I was surprised to hear that.

Chicago Tool?  SMFH.  I'm guessing you mean Harbor Freight.   Roll Eyes
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Conan71
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« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2016, 02:41:01 pm »

Chicago Tool?  SMFH.  I'm guessing you mean Harbor Freight.   Roll Eyes

Prolly what it's called in Omaha, Columbus, Detroit, or Ft. Worth.
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sauerkraut
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« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2016, 11:42:07 am »

Chicago Tool?  SMFH.  I'm guessing you mean Harbor Freight.   Roll Eyes
Yes, that's the store- the whole front of the shopping center was quake damaged- from Dollar Tree in the north to the last store in the south. They had to shore it all up with 4X4's. The stucco is old & cracking there is wood rot on the overhand, so the center had issues all along.
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« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2016, 12:57:01 pm »

Nobody can prove with 100% certainty things like this.  Its like if 50 people fired identical guns in the air every day for a million dollars and 10 people got hit in the head with bullets every day.  Which of the 50 guns was it?  Is it something else shooting the people?  You could stop shooting 50 guns in the air every day and lose the million.  But you wouldn't want to do that because then you would be able to prove if you were at fault or not and they would stop you from making your money.  So you keep plowing along.  But now everybody around town has to lease $300 a year helmets with a 10% deductible.

For the first 100 years of Oklahoma's history we had a mechanism to deal with this situation - joint and several liability. Where there are several parties in the wrong, but the Plaintiff cannot prove the percent of fault of each of the wrongdoers... all wrongdoers are equally on the hook for causing the damages. The injured party got paid and the wrongdoers fought amongst themselves concerning who should pay how much or who should get paid back from whom.

The theory was that the wrongdoers harmed the Plaintiff, if not all of them, one of them. They all did something that *could* have hurt the Plaintiff and someone did. The Plaintiff did no wrong and was injured.  And sometimes 5 deadbeats and one wealthy company would all be in the wrong, and the wealthy one would be left holding the bag. But if someone has to get "screwed" by the proceeding, it should  be the wrongdoers as they fight over who is to blame.

So, in your case, all 50 morons who shot their guns in the air are liable to the person that got shot. They can fight among themselves to try and prove they didn't fire the shot that hit home.

But... in 2004 form as part of "tort reform" we did away with that. Instead we had this:

Quote
A. Except as provided in subsections B and C of this section, in any civil action based on fault and not arising out of contract, the liability for damages caused by two or more persons shall be several only and a joint tortfeasor shall be liable only for the amount of damages allocated to that tortfeasor.

B. A defendant shall be jointly and severally liable for the damages recoverable by the plaintiff if the percentage of responsibility attributed to the defendant with respect to a cause of action is greater than fifty percent (50%).

C. If at the time the incident which gave rise to the cause of action occurred, any joint tortfeasors acted with willful and wanton conduct or with reckless disregard of the consequences of the conduct and such conduct proximately caused the damages legally recoverable by the plaintiff, the liability for damages shall be joint and several.

D. This section shall not apply to actions brought by the state or a political subdivision of the state or any action in which no comparative negligence is found to be attributable to the plaintiff.

E. The provisions of this section shall apply to all civil actions based on fault and not arising out of contract that accrue on or after November 1, 2004.
http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?citeid=456480

Basically, this is  one step toward making the Plaintiff prove which of the morons shooting the guns in the air actually hit him. If he can't prove which one, they all walk away laughing. UNLESS, the Plaintiff is found to be totally fault free or the wrongdoers acted recklessly. So, as of 2004, we would not have actually eliminated your "shooting in the air" scenario because the Plaintiff did nothing wrong and the wrongdoers could be shown to be reckless. So in many situations, you could still hold all the morons liable. This was sold as a compromise that protected the "big companies" when one of their slammer contractors of subsidiaries screwed up and they all pointed fingers at each other.

So clearly, that didn't cover enough basis and screw the little guy enough... so we "fixed" that issue in 2011:

Quote
A. In any civil action based on fault and not arising out of contract, the liability for damages caused by two or more persons shall be several only and a joint tortfeasor shall be liable only for the amount of damages allocated to that tortfeasor.

B. This section shall not apply to actions brought by or on behalf of the state.

C. The provisions of this section shall apply to all civil actions based on fault and not arising out of contract that accrue on or after November 1, 2011.
http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/deliverdocument.asp?cite=23+OS+15

Ahhh, there we go. Gone is the idea that all the parties who were in the wrong could be on the hook. Gone is the idea that being utterly reckless or wanton can reignite the rule. Gone is any regard for whether or not the injured party had any part what-so-ever in the action that led to the harm. Unless you harmed the State, then the rule doesn't apply because money.

New rule: if a few people are doing something wrong and any one or more of them may have caused the damages - screw you. The injured party gets nothing and all the wrongdoers walk away laughing. So if you shoot a gun in the air and the bullet hits someone, trouble. If you had 50 friends have a party and shoot your guns in the air... its much harder to pin the civil liability on anyone (but under criminal law all the morons could go to jail, so don't try this at home... moron).

Or, lets say, dozens of companies are injecting wastewater into the ground causing earthquakes. Even after they were told specific things they should avoid. Even after they were told the practice can cause earthquakes. In some instances, even after they were told to shut the wells down. Lets pretend that the operators were all willfully ignoring the rules and acting recklessly in a manner scientists say is likely to cause massive damage to Oklahomans... well, tough crap. You can't show which one of the morons shooting their guns in the air did it.

So we all get to pay for earthquake insurance, add a little bit of trepidation to our lives, see our infrastructure crumble just a little bit faster, and add one more reason to the list of reasons for business to avoid Oklahoma. All thanks to our "business friendly" tort reform. But at least all our insurance premiums have gone way down, tons of new businesses have moved to the State, and our doctor short is over...right?
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2016, 02:34:30 pm »


So we all get to pay for earthquake insurance, add a little bit of trepidation to our lives, see our infrastructure crumble just a little bit faster, and add one more reason to the list of reasons for business to avoid Oklahoma. All thanks to our "business friendly" tort reform. But at least all our insurance premiums have gone way down, tons of new businesses have moved to the State, and our doctor short is over...right?



Ayep....


Glad to see you have joined the "Kool-Aid" gang here in Okrahoma!!   All these pesky educated people using their brains, thinking thoughts, .... we just don't need that kind of stuff going on 'round here...!!

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sauerkraut
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« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2016, 10:46:34 am »

People are rushing out to buy quake insurance, but word is it's a waste of money- the premiums are high, the deductible is thru the roof, and the policy does not cover much. Before you can buy it you have to wait 30 days or is it 90 days after a quake.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2016, 04:14:02 pm »

People are rushing out to buy quake insurance, but word is it's a waste of money- the premiums are high, the deductible is thru the roof, and the policy does not cover much. Before you can buy it you have to wait 30 days or is it 90 days after a quake.


I got in early to avoid the rush - about 5 years ago.  Reasonable premium.  Same deductible as the rest of the house (I raised it to $500 last year).  No complaints yet.   The damage I do have from the quakes has not risen to the level of needing to be fixed on a grand scale.  I had one existing brick crack that was closed - no gap.  Now it has 1/4" gap after that latest shake.

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« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2016, 05:31:42 pm »


I got in early to avoid the rush - about 5 years ago.  Reasonable premium.  Same deductible as the rest of the house (I raised it to $500 last year).  No complaints yet.   The damage I do have from the quakes has not risen to the level of needing to be fixed on a grand scale.  I had one existing brick crack that was closed - no gap.  Now it has 1/4" gap after that latest shake.



I was lucky; I have no gaps and no new cracks (this house is old so it had some from settling anyway but nothing major and all indoors near door jambs).
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Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...
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« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2016, 12:52:23 pm »

I was lucky; I have no gaps and no new cracks (this house is old so it had some from settling anyway but nothing major and all indoors near door jambs).


I think the problems I have are more related to the lousy, "Home Creations" style building methods, materials, and designs.

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« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2016, 02:03:01 pm »


I think the problems I have are more related to the lousy, "Home Creations" style building methods, materials, and designs.



My house was built in 1955 in Meadowood (just SW of Admiral and Mingo).  I drilled into a stud in the back bedroom to put up a flat screen TV mount, pulled the drill out and was surprised to smell cedar.  FWIU alot of builders back then used cedar for studs and other wood.  I know that helps me in termite resistance.
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Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...
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« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2016, 03:13:28 pm »

I live by the Admiral Twin Drive-In My home has a crawl space and I guess they are better than a slab foundation. No damage in my home. I'm doing some re-modeling in my house new  doors & put up paneling in the dining room, looks great. I plan to paint the bedrooms. I felt the quake and heard it, still dunno what made that loud "crashing" sound before the quake started, I was in my yard at the time it happened. Must have been some pressure wave.
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« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2016, 03:48:53 pm »

Must have been some pressure wave.

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