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Author Topic: Moratorium: No more sidewalk cafes  (Read 47917 times)
davideinstein
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« Reply #75 on: August 14, 2016, 12:30:30 pm »

Why don't you run for office or work for one of them to learn the issues that profession faces? Then talk about it from a better perspective. Easy to criticize them but its a harder job than it appears, otherwise....I'd be doing it!

I vote and do my part as a citizen. Better suggestion is them come work my job for the day and deal with the issues regarding bad policy that I do.
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patric
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« Reply #76 on: August 14, 2016, 01:19:35 pm »

It's all connected to walkability.

Your both right... I tend to focus on specifics from time to time.
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Bamboo World
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« Reply #77 on: August 14, 2016, 04:21:48 pm »

 

I tend to focus on specifics from time to time.


True, but discussions evolve.  At first, I thought this topic was about a moratorium issued by the Mayor's Office.  Now, I'm not so sure, because I can't find the moratorium online.

The Artist responded with a good post about the width and use of public sidewalks, along Boston Avenue in particular.  I replied with information from a report published around 1999 or 2000.  The report was about the design of rights of way in downtown Tulsa, and it included the topics of lighting and sidewalk widths along Boston Avenue.

The proposed design for Boston Avenue featured wider sidewalks (about twenty feet from building face to curb), trees in planters, and a series of double acorn light fixtures similar to this one:

Source:  usglassmanufacturer.com

My reply mentioned what I call "double acorn" lights because the re-design rendering for Boston Avenue showed them, although I don't know the official name for them.  Your more specific reply was to my vague reply.  I don't have a problem with it, and I'm glad there are various viewpoints and "experts" on this forum to join the conversation and to share knowledge.  (But I'm sorry I didn't change my wording from Bumgarner père to Bumgarner fils before you quoted me.)
  
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patric
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« Reply #78 on: August 14, 2016, 10:57:17 pm »


My reply mentioned what I call "double acorn" lights because the re-design rendering for Boston Avenue showed them, although I don't know the official name for them.  Your more specific reply was to my vague reply.  I don't have a problem with it, and I'm glad there are various viewpoints and "experts" on this forum to join the conversation and to share knowledge.  (But I'm sorry I didn't change my wording from Bumgarner père to Bumgarner fils before you quoted me.)

"Dual Upright Acorn Luminaire" is what I mostly see them referred to, but they've been called other things (some not suitable for polite company).


A street furniture rendering showing decorative Acorns for ambiance, with Shielded Cobra-head Luminaires doing the actual street illumination.


Source:  American National Standard Practice for Roadway Lighting RP-8-00, ANSI/IES
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 11:00:11 pm by patric » Logged

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« Reply #79 on: August 14, 2016, 11:26:52 pm »

Please forgive me while I evolve a tiny bit more...

We now have the unique opportunity to "bring back" the look and feel of the old incandescent Acorns with the advent of newer LEDs.
No, not the ghoulish blue-rich LEDs.  I mean the ones that look exactly like incandescent light... that we have to ASK the salesmen to show us.

Buying the right LED sources let you specify the exact color and intensity you want, and you can make it look like 1920 to your hearts content.
Just make sure you have shielded (Full Cutoff) lights up high to do the actual lighting of the street (see above illustration).  The brightness of the LED Acorns should be such that you can look directly at them without discomfort (usually 1000 Lumens or less).  

So there's the challenge, folks.  Its shovel-ready today.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 11:28:26 pm by patric » Logged

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Conan71
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« Reply #80 on: August 15, 2016, 07:57:38 am »

I thought this thread was about a moratorium mentioned in its title and in the title and in the text of a Tulsa World article by Jarrel Wade.

I thought it was about a moratorium on licensing agreements which, according to the first sentence of the Tulsa World article, was issued recently by the Mayor's Office, halting sidewalk cafés and signage in public rights of way.

Does anyone on this forum know on which date the Mayor's Office issued the moratorium?  I've looked for the moratorium online, but can't find it.  If the moratorium was a written order or directive, I'd like to see it.



Have you called the Mayor’s Office?
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #81 on: August 15, 2016, 09:02:58 am »

The News on 6 story on the moratorium seems to indicate it comes from Paul Zachary, director of engineering services.  They now say it isn't a moratorium, just a "slight delay" while they study what they are doing in other cities:

http://www.newson6.com/story/32742450/city-taking-fresh-look-at-how-businesses-use-sidewalks
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« Reply #82 on: August 15, 2016, 06:55:00 pm »



Have you called the Mayor’s Office?


No

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« Reply #83 on: August 15, 2016, 07:26:08 pm »


The News on 6 story on the moratorium seems to indicate it comes from Paul Zachary, director of engineering services.  They now say it isn't a moratorium, just a "slight delay" while they study what they are doing in other cities:

http://www.newson6.com/story/32742450/city-taking-fresh-look-at-how-businesses-use-sidewalks


I'm wondering where the Tulsa World got the idea for the lead they published last week, if, in fact, the Mayor's Office did not issue a moratorium halting sidewalk cafés, and if, in fact, no one with the City of Tulsa issued a moratorium at all.

Also, I'm still wondering how the "moratorium" (or whatever the terminology du jour happens to be) relates to Jeff Speck, who has been very clear about what he thinks enhances walkability.  Licensing agreements and moratoria halting sidewalk cafés are not on Jeff Speck's list of the crucial steps he thinks cities need to take in making their downtowns more walkable.  

« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 08:13:32 pm by Bamboo World » Logged
Breadburner
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« Reply #84 on: August 16, 2016, 05:19:28 pm »

This isn't just about downtown....
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Bamboo World
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« Reply #85 on: August 16, 2016, 06:07:10 pm »

I'm curious about sidewalk cafés using public streets downtown.

Here's a quick list of downtown public streets -- please reply if I've forgotten any:

1. Easton (approximately 3 blocks total length)
2. Cameron (6 blocks)
3. Mathew B. Reconciliation Way (7 blocks)
4. Archer (14 blocks)
5. Admiral (1 block)
6. 1st (16 blocks)
7. 2nd (14 blocks)
8. 3rd (16 blocks)
9. 4th (13 blocks)
10. 5th (9 blocks)
11. 6th (13 blocks)
12. 7th (16 blocks)
13. 8th (9 blocks)
14. 9th (7 blocks)
15. 10th (5 blocks)
16. 11th (15 blocks)
17. 12th (12 blocks)
18. 13th (5 blocks)
19. Lawton (4 blocks)
20. Heavy Trafficway (4 blocks)
21. Houston (5 blocks)
22. Guthrie (3 blocks)
23. Frisco (4 blocks)
24. Elwood (3 blocks)
25. Denver (16 blocks)
26. Carthage (2 blocks)
27. Cheyenne (18 blocks)
28. Boulder (17 blocks)
29. Bob Wills (1 block)
30. Avenue of the Sister Cities (3 blocks)
31. Main (12 blocks)
32. Boston (17 blocks)
33. The Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Memorial Boulevard (4 blocks)
34. Cincinnati (15 blocks)
35. Detroit (17 blocks)
36. Elgin (16 blocks)
37. Frankfort (8 blocks)
38. Greenwood (5 blocks)
39. Hartford (1 block)
40. Iroquois (1 block)
41. Kenosha (3 blocks)
42. Lansing (3.5 blocks)
43. Southwest Boulevard (2 blocks)
44. Baltimore (1 block)
45. 1st Place (1 block)

I can think of outdoor seating on the following nine public streets downtown:

3. Mathew B. Reconciliation Way (about three locations, and I notice a fourth being installed last night near Elgin)
10. 5th (two or three locations)
11. 6th (one location - but that was Lasalle's, and I don't know if any sidewalk seating remains)
27. Cheyenne (one location)
32. Boston (about four locations)
35. Detroit (one location)
36. Elgin (I noticed one location last night that seems to be in-progress, across from ONEOK Field)
38. Greenwood (one location)
42. Lansing (one location)

Please reply with more locations, as I'm sure I've forgotten some or missed a few.  What I'm trying to do is get an idea of the scope of the public sidewalk usage for outdoor seating downtown -- I can remember about seventeen locations off the top of my head, observed by my frequent walks through downtown Tulsa.  Offhand, I can't think of any current seating arrangements that wouldn't allow a minimum path for a wheelchair to pass, although I know of some choke points, as have been mentioned in previous posts.
 
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« Reply #86 on: August 17, 2016, 07:44:59 am »

I think different than you do, here are the places I can think of with sidewalk areas:

Lassales
Ellote
Mods
Tovolo (sometimes)
Billy's
Trulas
Topeca
Enso (sometimes/used to have chairs out front)
Laffa
Hodges Bend
Boulder Grill (not on public right of way)
Naples Flatbread (not on public right of way)
Caz's (not on public right of way)
Mexicali (not on public right of way(not on public right of way)
Lucky's (on leased land, not really public right of way)


That's all I can think of.
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« Reply #87 on: August 17, 2016, 01:13:09 pm »


I think different than you do, here are the places I can think of with sidewalk areas:

Lassales
Ellote
Mods
Tavolo (sometimes)
Billy's
Trulas
Topeca
Enso (sometimes/used to have chairs out front)
Laffa
Hodges Bend
Boulder Grill (not on public right of way)
Naples Flatbread (not on public right of way)
Caz's (not on public right of way)
Mexicali (not on public right of way(not on public right of way)
Lucky's (on leased land, not really public right of way)


That's all I can think of.


Thank you for your reply!  Actually, you seem to be thinking very much as I am about the locations, except I'm trying to limit the scope to places using public rights of way downtown.

With that in mind, here's my response to your list:

1. Lasalle's -- I know they had some seating at 6th & Boston, but do they outside the Pythian Building?  I haven't been by their new location, yet, so I don't know.
2. Elote -- on my list
3. Mod's -- on my list
4. Tavolo (sometimes) -- wasn't on my list, but I think I've seen sidewalk furniture there a time or two
5. Billy's -- on my list
6. Trula -- on my list, except I think it has been re-branded as Boiler Room
7. Topeca -- on my list, although their seating is ephemeral
8. Enso (sometimes/used to have chairs out front) - wasn't on my list
9. Laffa -- was on my list because their seating is stored on their own property, but it does extend out a few nanometers into public sidewalks sometimes
10. Hodges Bend -- on my list
11. Boulder Grill, Naples Flatbread, Mexicali, Lucky's (not on public rights of way) -- none of these is on my list because the seating is not on public sidewalks
12. Caz's (not on public right of way) -- Caz's Chowhouse is on my list, because they have a seating area on a public right of way.  If you mean Caz's Pub, then I agree with you: no seating outside their bar, just at the restaurant on the south side of the street.

I was thinking of a few more places you didn't mention:

13. TAC -- just a couple of benches, no tables, as it's an art gallery with food sometimes, not a restaurant
14. Ti Amo
15. Hey Mambo
16. the cigar place north of Hey Mambo
17. Club Majestic
18. STG Pizzeria Gelateria
19. Lefty's
20. something in-progress south of the old Gates Hardware building
21. something in-progress east of the old Gates Hardware building

That's all I can think of right now, off the top of my head from memory.

Next question:  To your knowledge, do the seating arrangements at any of those locations block pedestrian or wheelchair traffic on public sidewalks?  I'd say Ti Amo is iffy, but probably complies with the ADA Accessibility Guidelines on the width of an accessible route passing by the seating.  I'll try to go by there today with a measuring tape, but I stepped it off last night (as my foot is a foot long).  The route needs to be at least 32 inches wide between Ti Amo's fence and the parking meter/sign there, according to my interpretation of the Guidelines.  Not sure .... it's close, according to my trusty "feet."

I don't think any of the other locations have less than a 36-inch wide path passing through or by the tables and chairs, but I'm not certain.  I haven't measured any of them (except Ti Amo with shod feet last night).

« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 04:04:42 pm by Bamboo World » Logged
davideinstein
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« Reply #88 on: August 17, 2016, 02:07:32 pm »

A wheelchair can get through everything in the Deco District. I checked it all out last week. Overreaching local government with other motives is the obvious case here.
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Bamboo World
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« Reply #89 on: August 17, 2016, 02:09:04 pm »


My curiosity about sidewalk cafés has led to a brief search into municipal regulations in a number of places in the US and abroad.

If Tulsa wants implement an updated licensing agreement policy, then I'd suggest it be relatively simple regarding sidewalk cafés.

With the help of cannon_fodder, I have compiled a list of about twenty locations downtown with private tables, seating, and/or fencing placed on public sidewalks.  I have no idea how many of those twenty downtown locations have current and valid licensing agreements with the City of Tulsa, approved by the City Council, or when those licensing agreements might expire.

But, anyway, here are a few examples of the types of regulations other cities have adopted:

- Minimum clearway on the sidewalk through or adjacent to seating areas.  Most of the minimum required widths I've found range from four to eight feet.

- Insurance requirements.

- Minimum distances from the curb and from any fixed public features such as poles, signs, parking meters, etc.

- Types and dimensions of fencing, when required.

- Scaled drawing and photo submittal requirements.

- Whether or not animals are allowed in the seating area, leash requirements, service animal exceptions, etc.

- Duration and revocability of licenses.

Although I'm not suggesting a bevy of regulations on sidewalk dining in Tulsa, some cities get even more specific in their demands.  Examples:

- All tablecloths and napkins must be real cloth rather than paper.

- All glasses must be real glass -- not cheap plastic or any other material.

- All plates must be ceramic.

- All flatware must be metal.

With such a paucity of pedestrian activity and al fresco dining on public sidewalks in downtown Tulsa, I suggest that the City develop a VERY simple framework of guidelines for sidewalk cafés, and then lift the moratorium as soon as possible.  There's no need to wait on Jeff Speck's downtown walkability study or to hope that he'll include recommendations about best practices for Tulsa's license agreement policy (unless the Downtown Coordinating Council actually commissioned Jeff Speck to include recommendations about Tulsa's license agreement policy -- and I don't think the DCC has commissioned him to recommend anything concerning license agreements, based on what davideinstein posted about his email exchange with Jeff Speck).  I haven't communicated with Jeff Speck about the Mayor's Office's moratorium halting downtown sidewalk cafés, but it does seem contrary to what Jeff Speck's work and studies are all about:  walkability.  But, I could be wrong.  Perhaps Jeff Speck has done a 180 since in the last few weeks, has renounced/abandoned his ten steps to a more walkable down, and has been delving deep, deep, deep into moratoria halting downtown sidewalk cafés.  We'll see...

Later, I'll try to post a very basic framework outline -- just as a starting point for comments/feedback.
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