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Author Topic: The Tulsa Police "War"  (Read 12472 times)
Vashta Nerada
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« on: July 19, 2016, 07:25:20 pm »

Tulsa made national news again.   Grin


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/tulsa-police-kill-men-wielding-weapons-back-back-days-article-1.2717707
The Sooner State is no stranger to police shootings. An analysis of fatal police shootings conducted by the Washington Post in 2015 found that at 4.4 deaths per million people, Oklahoma had the highest rate of fatal encounters between civilians and police in the country.




I’ll never forget the mood at the squad meeting at 3 pm on September 11, 2001.  I gathered with about 20 cops in the same room that we had deployed out of for years but this day was different.  Our country had been attacked and we were pissed.

In fact, several from that day joined the military and others seriously pondered it.

Those thoughts and feelings came back like a vengeance this morning as I heard the news about Baton Rouge.  Yes, we all saw five officers killed in Dallas last week and multiple shot throughout the week but today’s news solidifies what just about no one wants to acknowledge.

    We are at war!

All we have heard for the last few years is how cops are racist and our training isn’t right and we don’t need basic equipment like riot gear, helmets and armored vehicles and we all need to ‘soften’ our uniforms.  This is all pushed down our throats even more every time we have to use deadly force against individuals attacking us.

We have leaders of state police saying we must all be re-trained, celebrities calling us murderers and even the President saying our profession has embedded racism. Black Lives Matter continues to be invited to the White House and given a voice despite violence breaking out all around them and despite all of that….no one wants to acknowledge the obvious.

    We are at war!

The men and women behind the badge know it.  Good leaders know it and decent communities know it.  For the safety of all of our men and women behind the badge, it is time our country knows it.
................
Major Travis Yates is a Commander with the Tulsa (OK) Police Department and the Editor In Chief for Law Officer. His Seminars in Risk Management & Officer Safety have been taught across the United States & Canada. Major Yates has a Master of Science Degree in Criminal Justice and is a graduate of the FBI National Academy. He is the Director of Training for SAFETAC Training.



http://lawofficer.com/2016/07/this-is-war/
http://www.fox23.com/news/group-calls-for-resignation-of-tulsa-police-commander/407324757
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/we-the-people-calls-for-resignation-of-tulsa-police-major/article_bfa28894-1e17-59b0-92e3-f7aab262f608.html


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Ibanez
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2016, 08:05:34 pm »

We get it, you hate cops.

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Vashta Nerada
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2016, 08:22:36 pm »



It's a local story and meets all the moderators conditions......
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Ed W
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2016, 06:25:51 am »

Yates apologized for his post about law enforcement officers being "at war" with their fellow citizens. There's no information on any disciplinary action as it's considered part of his personnel file. It could simply be swept under the rug or he could face departmental discipline. I doubt he'll be fired.

Regardless, a high profile incident like this illustrates the need for transparency and accountability from our local police departments. I don't want a cop on the street who sees ordinary citizens as the enemy.
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Conan71
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2016, 07:41:33 am »

This is an emotional outburst from someone who is in the line of work where eight cops were executed at random over the last two weeks for no other reason than they wear the badge.  None of the regular posters on here I know of on here are LEO, so we don’t really have the slightest clue what it’s like knowing this morning could be the last time you pull on your boots working to protect and defend others.

Since when can a cop not express his or her opinion or emotions?  I didn’t take the comment “We are at war” to mean cops are declaring war on criminals, I took it for what it was intended:  Cops feel like they are under siege.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2016, 07:57:49 am »

This is an emotional outburst from someone who is in the line of work where eight cops were executed at random over the last two weeks for no other reason than they wear the badge.  None of the regular posters on here I know of on here are LEO, so we don’t really have the slightest clue what it’s like knowing this morning could be the last time you pull on your boots working to protect and defend others.

Since when can a cop not express his or her opinion or emotions?  I didn’t take the comment “We are at war” to mean cops are declaring war on criminals, I took it for what it was intended:  Cops feel like they are under siege.


Yep.


We have to get over the 'silo' mentality that accompanies this topic on both sides. 

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patric
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2016, 08:32:32 am »


Regardless, a high profile incident like this illustrates the need for transparency and accountability from our local police departments. I don't want a cop on the street who sees ordinary citizens as the enemy.

Its one of those unguarded moments out of the reach of Public Information Officers that give us a brief glimpse of whats really going on in people's minds.
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erfalf
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2016, 08:46:35 am »

How should they not feel like they are at war when those killing them seem to be showing every sign that they are at war with cops?

We weren't at war with Japan until we were at war with Japan.

I do not fault this cop for having these feelings. I would put my donkey on the line in saying that I have no doubt that this particular officer does not look at civilians as enemies. That's the problem. He's at war with a ghost and that's what is so frustrating. It causes them to take more aggressive, safety stances in their everyday work.
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Ed W
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2016, 10:05:52 am »

TPD's social media policy says that officers may not post anything detrimental to the department or anything that may be an embarrassment to the departmen and this applies both on duty and off. This is pretty much standard stuff that you'd find in many employee policies.
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Ed

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swake
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2016, 10:57:30 am »

How should they not feel like they are at war when those killing them seem to be showing every sign that they are at war with cops?

We weren't at war with Japan until we were at war with Japan.

I do not fault this cop for having these feelings. I would put my donkey on the line in saying that I have no doubt that this particular officer does not look at civilians as enemies. That's the problem. He's at war with a ghost and that's what is so frustrating. It causes them to take more aggressive, safety stances in their everyday work.

But who is he at war with? Mentally unstable black ex-Marines with anger issues?

And declaring the police are at war is a really bad look on day when TPD kills TWO people, one of them for throwing a screwdriver.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2016, 12:26:09 pm »

... so we don’t really have the slightest clue what it’s like knowing this morning could be the last time you pull on your boots working to protect and defend others...Cops feel like they are under siege.

I have no doubt police feel like they are under siege. Clearly, they sometimes are. But that sometimes is thankfully very limited, usually to less than 50 incidents in a year (of officers being shot and killed while on duty). That number is too large, but given the number of encounters police have with the citizens (hundreds of millions a year?), it is a very rare event. And we need it to be a rare event because effective policing and respect for the job they do is mandatory for our society. It goes without saying that murdering random officers for the perceived misdeeds of other officers is not only tragic, but counterproductive to any goal but anarchy.

So while I can't fault an officer for being weary, we need to recognize that feeling like you are under assault and at war with the population you are supposed to serve can lead to additional problems. The sentiment firmly reinforces the "us vs. them" mentality that black lives matters has been accused of fostering. If both sides feel it is competition, let alone a war, very little good can come to fruition until one side "wins" the war.

However, in my mind one side is a bunch of angry people airing grievances against the government (murderers, violent protesters, and vandals not included in this simplification). The other are professional government agents tasked with enforcing laws and keeping the peace. So I am more distressed by the sentiment by the police than from the protesters. My expectations are higher and, as we've seen repeatedly, most police officers have risen above the sentiment and shown why they deserve the respect that they have (protecting the protesters, having picnics with/for them, etc.). I expect nothing less from the Officers who work for the citizens of Tulsa.

An officer is entitled to an emotional outburst like anyone else. But when that emotional outburst is at work or in an official capacity - they should try to keep it under control. That's why we have a professional police force.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 12:32:54 pm by cannon_fodder » Logged

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swake
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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2016, 12:49:51 pm »

I have no doubt police feel like they are under siege. Clearly, they sometimes are. But that sometimes is thankfully very limited, usually to less than 50 incidents in a year (of officers being shot and killed while on duty). That number is too large, but given the number of encounters police have with the citizens (hundreds of millions a year?), it is a very rare event. And we need it to be a rare event because effective policing and respect for the job they do is mandatory for our society. It goes without saying that murdering random officers for the perceived misdeeds of other officers is not only tragic, but counterproductive to any goal but anarchy.

So while I can't fault an officer for being weary, we need to recognize that feeling like you are under assault and at war with the population you are supposed to serve can lead to additional problems. The sentiment firmly reinforces the "us vs. them" mentality that black lives matters has been accused of fostering. If both sides feel it is competition, let alone a war, very little good can come to fruition until one side "wins" the war.

However, in my mind one side is a bunch of angry people airing grievances against the government (murderers, violent protesters, and vandals not included in this simplification). The other are professional government agents tasked with enforcing laws and keeping the peace. So I am more distressed by the sentiment by the police than from the protesters. My expectations are higher and, as we've seen repeatedly, most police officers have risen above the sentiment and shown why they deserve the respect that they have (protecting the protesters, having picnics with/for them, etc.). I expect nothing less from the Officers who work for the citizens of Tulsa.

An officer is entitled to an emotional outburst like anyone else. But when that emotional outburst is at work or in an official capacity - they should try to keep it under control. That's why we have a professional police force.

Especially when said officer is a commander with hundreds of cops under him.
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patric
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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2016, 01:46:59 pm »

Especially when said officer is a commander with hundreds of cops under him.

...and thousands of cops reading his website.
Thats pretty much why an attitude in Missouri or Louisiana is an attitude in Tulsa.

OTOH, this retired NYPD detective's take was somewhat inspiring: 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/opinion/why-there-is-no-war-on-the-police.html

« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 09:45:28 am by patric » Logged

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Ed W
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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2016, 02:26:47 pm »

From State Representative Regina Goodwin :
Major Wendell Phillips will be commanding the Gilcrease Division North post previously held by Major Yates. Spoke with Chief Jordan and we remain on track to soon implement comprehensive community policing . Justice and peace are our objectives. We must work with integrity and a sense of urgency to further improve communication, relationships, respect and generate trust. We can make Tulsa safer. Let's be about it!
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Ed

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Vashta Nerada
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« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2016, 07:05:08 pm »

From State Representative Regina Goodwin :
Major Wendell Phillips will be commanding the Gilcrease Division North post previously held by Major Yates. Spoke with Chief Jordan and we remain on track to soon implement comprehensive community policing . Justice and peace are our objectives. We must work with integrity and a sense of urgency to further improve communication, relationships, respect and generate trust. We can make Tulsa safer. Let's be about it!

Yates was just promoted to the head of the Special Operations Division.

Yes, the one at the heart of the corruption scandal. http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=14539.0




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