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November 23, 2017, 02:41:04 pm
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Author Topic: Is it a crime to be poor?  (Read 1038 times)
davideinstein
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« on: June 12, 2016, 07:33:26 pm »

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/opinion/sunday/is-it-a-crime-to-be-poor.html

Nicholas Kristof on the Tulsa jail system running a debtors prison.
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Ed W
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2016, 11:14:21 am »

Don't you know by now that being poor is both criminal and sinful? All poor people are criminals of one stripe or another, grifting off hard working taxpayers at the very least, while indulging in endless orgies of drugs, alcohol, and uninhibited sex. Why, just watch television evangelists and you'll realize that good, God-fearing Americans are rich and successful, with tasteful designer clothing, perfect teeth and hair, and just one or two tummy tucks. They're certainly not like some homeless Jewish guy wandering the desert in sandals and a bedsheet for weeks at a time.
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Ed

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I might be moving to Montana soon...


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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2016, 12:28:20 pm »

Don't you know by now that being poor is both criminal and sinful? All poor people are criminals of one stripe or another, grifting off hard working taxpayers at the very least, while indulging in endless orgies of drugs, alcohol, and uninhibited sex. Why, just watch television evangelists and you'll realize that good, God-fearing Americans are rich and successful, with tasteful designer clothing, perfect teeth and hair, and just one or two tummy tucks. They're certainly not like some homeless Jewish guy wandering the desert in sandals and a bedsheet for weeks at a time.

You win the internet for the day.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2016, 12:41:34 pm »

Pretty much anything Jill Webb says is spot on accurate. Loads of respect for that woman.

And I've seen it first hand. Both while waiting for hearings and with my clients. Usually something stupid done by the individual starts the process (traffic ticket, possession of drugs, public intox), and even if they serve the time or pay the fine - they can't pay the court costs. The circle starts and just keeps going.

Sometimes it's worse - get laid off and have to cut expenses. Insurance lapses so you can pay for school clothes for the kids and pay the mortgage.  Suddenly your car tag expires and you get nailed for lack of insurance and no tags, car gets impounded, which means its hard to get to your new job. Of course you can't pay the fine so you end up in jail, and lose the new job. Now you pay court costs on top of the fines you couldn't pay, etc. etc. etc. A $200 fine for forgetting to renew my car tag is an annoyance, yet for many people living paycheck to paycheck it can be the start of a very long struggle.

Again, most of the time it starts with the person doing something stupid. But if the punishment effectively just keeps on going, what are we trying to accomplish? In such instances we spend more money trying to fine someone than we will ever actually get back. Now, you don't want to just throw your hands up and say they "aren't punishable," but there has to be some way to end the cycle. Otherwise, it is hard for the person to rejoin society and contribute. Not to mention the incredible waste of our resources on the Sisyphean task of getting a broke person to pay thousands of dollars.

ALSO - the notion that Courts should fund themselves is ridiculous. The executive branch doesnt fund itself. The legislative branch (which in Oklahoma got another increase in appropriation this year) doesn't fund itself. Yet we have had a prolonged effort to destroy the Courts in Oklahoma  I hope you aren't looking for your day in Court, because Tulsa cut ANOTHER jury week recently due to lack of funding.
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TulsaMoon
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2016, 04:19:53 pm »

Oklahoma is in the midst of the worst budget crisis this state has ever seen, so dealing with the poor is not even on the radar. Nope.. Having a debate to distract everyone away from the real issues is what's on the agenda for today.

So instead of talking about the poor, the education system, our in the crapper medical healthcare system, and failing fiscal policies lets instead talk about Abortion. Lets debate a bill that has zero chance to stand ground in the courts.  No wait I have a better idea! Lets talk about the 10 commandments on the capital grounds.

Until people in this state open their eyes and see how our leaders play slight of hand to fool them into thinking they are really doing the job they were hired for, well it isn't going to get any better. As a Republican I am fed up with the party, with the lies and the distraction and the no action.

Cannon is spot on. Being poor is a terrible cycle when one bad thing happens after the next. Looking to our government is not the answer though because those people are worthless.
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Breadburner
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2016, 04:49:56 pm »

Does being poor mean you have to be dirty and filthy....Huh
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2016, 05:13:40 pm »

Does being poor mean you have to be dirty and filthy....Huh

No.

Do you have to be an ignorant fool randomly spouting off insulting stereotypes that have nothing to do with the topic of conversation?
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davideinstein
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2016, 05:56:14 pm »

Pretty much anything Jill Webb says is spot on accurate. Loads of respect for that woman.

And I've seen it first hand. Both while waiting for hearings and with my clients. Usually something stupid done by the individual starts the process (traffic ticket, possession of drugs, public intox), and even if they serve the time or pay the fine - they can't pay the court costs. The circle starts and just keeps going.

Sometimes it's worse - get laid off and have to cut expenses. Insurance lapses so you can pay for school clothes for the kids and pay the mortgage.  Suddenly your car tag expires and you get nailed for lack of insurance and no tags, car gets impounded, which means its hard to get to your new job. Of course you can't pay the fine so you end up in jail, and lose the new job. Now you pay court costs on top of the fines you couldn't pay, etc. etc. etc. A $200 fine for forgetting to renew my car tag is an annoyance, yet for many people living paycheck to paycheck it can be the start of a very long struggle.

Again, most of the time it starts with the person doing something stupid. But if the punishment effectively just keeps on going, what are we trying to accomplish? In such instances we spend more money trying to fine someone than we will ever actually get back. Now, you don't want to just throw your hands up and say they "aren't punishable," but there has to be some way to end the cycle. Otherwise, it is hard for the person to rejoin society and contribute. Not to mention the incredible waste of our resources on the Sisyphean task of getting a broke person to pay thousands of dollars.

ALSO - the notion that Courts should fund themselves is ridiculous. The executive branch doesnt fund itself. The legislative branch (which in Oklahoma got another increase in appropriation this year) doesn't fund itself. Yet we have had a prolonged effort to destroy the Courts in Oklahoma  I hope you aren't looking for your day in Court, because Tulsa cut ANOTHER jury week recently due to lack of funding.

Very similar to payday loans. The cycle never stops.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2016, 09:04:30 am »

No.

Do you have to be an ignorant fool randomly spouting off insulting stereotypes that have nothing to do with the topic of conversation?


Don't have to be...he just is...
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