A grassroots organization focused on the intelligent and sustainable development, preservation and revitalization of Tulsa.
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 01:22:48 am
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Is it a crime to be poor?  (Read 5665 times)
davideinstein
Guest
« on: June 12, 2016, 07:33:26 pm »

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/opinion/sunday/is-it-a-crime-to-be-poor.html

Nicholas Kristof on the Tulsa jail system running a debtors prison.
Logged
Ed W
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2941



« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2016, 11:14:21 am »

Don't you know by now that being poor is both criminal and sinful? All poor people are criminals of one stripe or another, grifting off hard working taxpayers at the very least, while indulging in endless orgies of drugs, alcohol, and uninhibited sex. Why, just watch television evangelists and you'll realize that good, God-fearing Americans are rich and successful, with tasteful designer clothing, perfect teeth and hair, and just one or two tummy tucks. They're certainly not like some homeless Jewish guy wandering the desert in sandals and a bedsheet for weeks at a time.
Logged

Ed

May you live in interesting times.
Hoss
I'm a Daft Punk
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 11303


I might be moving to Anguilla soon...


WWW
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2016, 12:28:20 pm »

Don't you know by now that being poor is both criminal and sinful? All poor people are criminals of one stripe or another, grifting off hard working taxpayers at the very least, while indulging in endless orgies of drugs, alcohol, and uninhibited sex. Why, just watch television evangelists and you'll realize that good, God-fearing Americans are rich and successful, with tasteful designer clothing, perfect teeth and hair, and just one or two tummy tucks. They're certainly not like some homeless Jewish guy wandering the desert in sandals and a bedsheet for weeks at a time.

You win the internet for the day.
Logged

Libertarianism is a system of beliefs for people who think adolescence is the epitome of human achievement.

Global warming isn't real because it was cold today.  Also great news: world famine is over because I just ate - Stephen Colbert.

Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...
cannon_fodder
All around good guy.
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 9379



« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2016, 12:41:34 pm »

Pretty much anything Jill Webb says is spot on accurate. Loads of respect for that woman.

And I've seen it first hand. Both while waiting for hearings and with my clients. Usually something stupid done by the individual starts the process (traffic ticket, possession of drugs, public intox), and even if they serve the time or pay the fine - they can't pay the court costs. The circle starts and just keeps going.

Sometimes it's worse - get laid off and have to cut expenses. Insurance lapses so you can pay for school clothes for the kids and pay the mortgage.  Suddenly your car tag expires and you get nailed for lack of insurance and no tags, car gets impounded, which means its hard to get to your new job. Of course you can't pay the fine so you end up in jail, and lose the new job. Now you pay court costs on top of the fines you couldn't pay, etc. etc. etc. A $200 fine for forgetting to renew my car tag is an annoyance, yet for many people living paycheck to paycheck it can be the start of a very long struggle.

Again, most of the time it starts with the person doing something stupid. But if the punishment effectively just keeps on going, what are we trying to accomplish? In such instances we spend more money trying to fine someone than we will ever actually get back. Now, you don't want to just throw your hands up and say they "aren't punishable," but there has to be some way to end the cycle. Otherwise, it is hard for the person to rejoin society and contribute. Not to mention the incredible waste of our resources on the Sisyphean task of getting a broke person to pay thousands of dollars.

ALSO - the notion that Courts should fund themselves is ridiculous. The executive branch doesnt fund itself. The legislative branch (which in Oklahoma got another increase in appropriation this year) doesn't fund itself. Yet we have had a prolonged effort to destroy the Courts in Oklahoma  I hope you aren't looking for your day in Court, because Tulsa cut ANOTHER jury week recently due to lack of funding.
Logged

- - - - - - - - -
I crush grooves.
TulsaMoon
Civic Leader
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 179


« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2016, 04:19:53 pm »

Oklahoma is in the midst of the worst budget crisis this state has ever seen, so dealing with the poor is not even on the radar. Nope.. Having a debate to distract everyone away from the real issues is what's on the agenda for today.

So instead of talking about the poor, the education system, our in the crapper medical healthcare system, and failing fiscal policies lets instead talk about Abortion. Lets debate a bill that has zero chance to stand ground in the courts.  No wait I have a better idea! Lets talk about the 10 commandments on the capital grounds.

Until people in this state open their eyes and see how our leaders play slight of hand to fool them into thinking they are really doing the job they were hired for, well it isn't going to get any better. As a Republican I am fed up with the party, with the lies and the distraction and the no action.

Cannon is spot on. Being poor is a terrible cycle when one bad thing happens after the next. Looking to our government is not the answer though because those people are worthless.
Logged
Breadburner
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4444


WWW
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2016, 04:49:56 pm »

Does being poor mean you have to be dirty and filthy....Huh
Logged

 
cannon_fodder
All around good guy.
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 9379



« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2016, 05:13:40 pm »

Does being poor mean you have to be dirty and filthy....Huh

No.

Do you have to be an ignorant fool randomly spouting off insulting stereotypes that have nothing to do with the topic of conversation?
Logged

- - - - - - - - -
I crush grooves.
davideinstein
Guest
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2016, 05:56:14 pm »

Pretty much anything Jill Webb says is spot on accurate. Loads of respect for that woman.

And I've seen it first hand. Both while waiting for hearings and with my clients. Usually something stupid done by the individual starts the process (traffic ticket, possession of drugs, public intox), and even if they serve the time or pay the fine - they can't pay the court costs. The circle starts and just keeps going.

Sometimes it's worse - get laid off and have to cut expenses. Insurance lapses so you can pay for school clothes for the kids and pay the mortgage.  Suddenly your car tag expires and you get nailed for lack of insurance and no tags, car gets impounded, which means its hard to get to your new job. Of course you can't pay the fine so you end up in jail, and lose the new job. Now you pay court costs on top of the fines you couldn't pay, etc. etc. etc. A $200 fine for forgetting to renew my car tag is an annoyance, yet for many people living paycheck to paycheck it can be the start of a very long struggle.

Again, most of the time it starts with the person doing something stupid. But if the punishment effectively just keeps on going, what are we trying to accomplish? In such instances we spend more money trying to fine someone than we will ever actually get back. Now, you don't want to just throw your hands up and say they "aren't punishable," but there has to be some way to end the cycle. Otherwise, it is hard for the person to rejoin society and contribute. Not to mention the incredible waste of our resources on the Sisyphean task of getting a broke person to pay thousands of dollars.

ALSO - the notion that Courts should fund themselves is ridiculous. The executive branch doesnt fund itself. The legislative branch (which in Oklahoma got another increase in appropriation this year) doesn't fund itself. Yet we have had a prolonged effort to destroy the Courts in Oklahoma  I hope you aren't looking for your day in Court, because Tulsa cut ANOTHER jury week recently due to lack of funding.

Very similar to payday loans. The cycle never stops.
Logged
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 13214



« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2016, 09:04:30 am »

No.

Do you have to be an ignorant fool randomly spouting off insulting stereotypes that have nothing to do with the topic of conversation?


Don't have to be...he just is...
Logged

"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
  Hosted by TulsaConnect and Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
 

Mission

 

"TulsaNow's Mission is to help Tulsa become the most vibrant, diverse, sustainable and prosperous city of our size. We achieve this by focusing on the development of Tulsa's distinctive identity and economic growth around a dynamic, urban core, complemented by a constellation of livable, thriving communities."
more...

 

Contact

 

2210 S Main St.
Tulsa, OK 74114
(918) 409-2669
info@tulsanow.org