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November 24, 2017, 01:01:33 am
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Author Topic: More Mass shootings  (Read 12166 times)
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2016, 08:21:11 am »

Too much of this is falling neatly into different group's laps.  ISIS gets to make claims.  Homophobes get to make claims.  Anti-gunners get to make claims.  Everybody is positioning to get a piece of the action.  The real story is gonna be much less 'exotic'.  He was an a$$hole with a gun - just like Timothy McVeigh was an a$$hole with a big yellow truck.


Don't know if this girl is real or not...don't care, actually.  The message is real.  And we are falling into the oversimplification trap again - like we always do...!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnEKEfkdrOU


One thing though - NOBODY hates us "because we are free"!!  That is absolute gospel fact.


Edit....

Talking about this a little bit with people in an office I visit with the good ole' Okie frame of mind.  Same guys who are having a really tough time trying to decide who to "side with" in this Orlando shooting like in the picture above - the Muslim Terrorist or the Gays.  The consensus seems to be that it is a "win-win"....

"where did she get her philosophy? The Matrix Movies?"

"crackerjack box analysis of global politics"

"everyone has an opinion"


« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 08:55:05 am by heironymouspasparagus » Logged

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erfalf
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« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2016, 09:53:22 am »

Too much of this is falling neatly into different group's laps.  ISIS gets to make claims.  Homophobes get to make claims.  Anti-gunners get to make claims.  Everybody is positioning to get a piece of the action.  The real story is gonna be much less 'exotic'.  He was an a$$hole with a gun - just like Timothy McVeigh was an a$$hole with a big yellow truck.


Don't know if this girl is real or not...don't care, actually.  The message is real.  And we are falling into the oversimplification trap again - like we always do...!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnEKEfkdrOU


One thing though - NOBODY hates us "because we are free"!!  That is absolute gospel fact.


Edit....

Talking about this a little bit with people in an office I visit with the good ole' Okie frame of mind.  Same guys who are having a really tough time trying to decide who to "side with" in this Orlando shooting like in the picture above - the Muslim Terrorist or the Gays.  The consensus seems to be that it is a "win-win"....

"where did she get her philosophy? The Matrix Movies?"

"crackerjack box analysis of global politics"

"everyone has an opinion"




In regards to the video, my take is that she seems to believe there are two good sides, where I could argue that is hardly the case. Of course, there may not be one good side either, but that's a whole other argument.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 09:57:15 am by erfalf » Logged

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2016, 09:58:07 am »

My take is that she seems to believe there are two good sides, where I could argue that is hardly the case.


Not at all.  She is saying there are two sides.


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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

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What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
erfalf
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« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2016, 10:04:52 am »


Not at all.  She is saying there are two sides.




But that the other side (ISIS) fancies themselves the hero/savior. Let's just hope they don't have their fairy tail ending, or Orlando will be a drop in the bucket.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2016, 10:30:49 am »

But that the other side (ISIS) fancies themselves the hero/savior. Let's just hope they don't have their fairy tail ending, or Orlando will be a drop in the bucket.


I am ready to drop a bomb on the real source of inspiration and in particular funding for this.  It's Saudi Arabia - as we have always known.  But then we are going right down the rabbit hole again with that action.


Drop in the bucket...you mean like the genocide/extermination program practiced against Native Americans for so long?   I don't think so.  ISIS is not an existential threat.

So, why DO they actually hate us so bad??   Does anyone ever actually think about that in particular as it relates to American policy?  (It's a long, convoluted story of mystery and intrigue with plenty of nastiness and depravity on both sides.  That is one of the things she is getting at.)

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
erfalf
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« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2016, 10:35:37 am »


I am ready to drop a bomb on the real source of inspiration and in particular funding for this.  It's Saudi Arabia - as we have always known.  But then we are going right down the rabbit hole again with that action.


Drop in the bucket...you mean like the genocide/extermination program practiced against Native Americans for so long?   I don't think so.  ISIS is not an existential threat.

So, why DO they actually hate us so bad??   Does anyone ever actually think about that in particular as it relates to American policy?  (It's a long, convoluted story of mystery and intrigue with plenty of nastiness and depravity on both sides.  That is one of the things she is getting at.)



Like I said, I am not trying to white wash America's history, which I am familiar with. The reason events like you mentioned aren't common place is because the general populous is repulsed at the thought. Whereas the general populous in other parts of the world is perfectly fine with throwing homosexuals off of buildings or stringing them up in the town square. Please try to not to draw comparisons between two civilizations that have virtually nothing in common when it comes to human rights.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2016, 05:01:06 pm »

Like I said, I am not trying to white wash America's history, which I am familiar with. The reason events like you mentioned aren't common place is because the general populous is repulsed at the thought. Whereas the general populous in other parts of the world is perfectly fine with throwing homosexuals off of buildings or stringing them up in the town square. Please try to not to draw comparisons between two civilizations that have virtually nothing in common when it comes to human rights.


General population repulsed at the thought....  Of Sharia law type stuff??  You mean like what our extremist right wing has been advocating for years?  As manifested most recently in the Trump candidacy endorsed by what,...way more than 30% of the US population?  Socially liberal - or even moderate - people are a minority in this country - always have been and are likely to always be for at least mine and my kids lifetimes.

Or the virtual entire population of the US buying into the idea that torture, waterboarding, extraordinary rendition are viable means to an end??  All war crimes, by the way.  And within the last decade.  That's very recent history.

Virtually nothing in common??  Hmmm...interesting idea, since we are the ones who perfected the ideas of genocide and ethnic cleansing.  Like the video shows, they have their idea of what is justice and right, even if it is medieval 10th century, and we have our idea of what is justice and right.  And we have Trump and all his supporters...

What you are talking about is only the most recent of recent history for not "stringing them up in the town square".  I am old enough to remember news reports pictures of people actually being strung up in this country.  And the lame-a$$ clowns in their pointy little white hats and sheets.  And Jim Crow laws.  And Trump fans want to bring it back now!  And feel that it is right and proper to do so.  Have you seen any of the 'cheering section' yet praising this act?  The dilemma presented by the Muslim guy dead versus all those dead gays...?  There are people praising what he did, even if he was Muslim.


I have said it before and repeat - no other country in the history of this planet has done as much good as the US.  And no other country has done as much evil.  Maybe that's why we are so politically schizoid....


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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
Vashta Nerada
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« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2016, 06:36:34 pm »

Radical Islamic Terrorist.....


The SWAT praised themselves for "saving thousands of lives" by storming the place with explosives and automatic gunfire, so brace yourselves for when you start hearing "friendly fire" numbers
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2016, 07:39:50 pm »


The SWAT praised themselves for "saving thousands of lives" by storming the place with explosives and automatic gunfire, so brace yourselves for when you start hearing "friendly fire" numbers

You're so full of it your eyes must be brown.
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2016, 09:30:06 pm »

You're so full of it your eyes must be brown.

He's only in ankle deep.  Unfortunately he's in head first.   Grin

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swake
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« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2016, 08:10:22 am »


The SWAT praised themselves for "saving thousands of lives" by storming the place with explosives and automatic gunfire, so brace yourselves for when you start hearing "friendly fire" numbers

Just stop
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patric
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« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2016, 02:39:18 pm »

The building isnt that big  Wink
 I think the number they tossed around was 30-ish.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/police-tactics-expert-rips-orlando-response-club-shooting-article-1.2671907
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« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2016, 01:33:51 pm »


General population repulsed at the thought....  Of Sharia law type stuff??  You mean like what our extremist right wing has been advocating for years?  As manifested most recently in the Trump candidacy endorsed by what,...way more than 30% of the US population?  Socially liberal - or even moderate - people are a minority in this country - always have been and are likely to always be for at least mine and my kids lifetimes.

Or the virtual entire population of the US buying into the idea that torture, waterboarding, extraordinary rendition are viable means to an end??  All war crimes, by the way.  And within the last decade.  That's very recent history.

Virtually nothing in common??  Hmmm...interesting idea, since we are the ones who perfected the ideas of genocide and ethnic cleansing.  Like the video shows, they have their idea of what is justice and right, even if it is medieval 10th century, and we have our idea of what is justice and right.  And we have Trump and all his supporters...

What you are talking about is only the most recent of recent history for not "stringing them up in the town square".  I am old enough to remember news reports pictures of people actually being strung up in this country.  And the lame-a$$ clowns in their pointy little white hats and sheets.  And Jim Crow laws.  And Trump fans want to bring it back now!  And feel that it is right and proper to do so.  Have you seen any of the 'cheering section' yet praising this act?  The dilemma presented by the Muslim guy dead versus all those dead gays...?  There are people praising what he did, even if he was Muslim.


I have said it before and repeat - no other country in the history of this planet has done as much good as the US.  And no other country has done as much evil.  Maybe that's why we are so politically schizoid....





So now we are comparing Conservatives to Shari law? We are saying all Trumps supporters are KKK members and are pushing to have the old Jim Crow laws back? Not only do they want that back but feel it's proper to do so? Oh wait, I have to pick a side, either I hate Muslims or I hate gays.

I hate the Fark Tard that committed this horrible act of violence. I don't hate gays nor do I hate Muslims and if you knew me as a conservative that has both in my immediate family you would know this to be true. Instead we roll everyone up into a nice little Trump package just because we hold conservative values?

If you think the USA has performed more acts of evil than any other country then you need to look back at History a little bit more. Have we had our "evil " moments, yes of course, Native Americans and African Americans are solid proof to the evils that have happened here, but nothing near to what history has to teach us. In the last 100 years you could start with Germany, Russia, Italy and the list goes on.



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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2016, 02:03:44 pm »


So now we are comparing Conservatives to Shari law? We are saying all Trumps supporters are KKK members and are pushing to have the old Jim Crow laws back? Not only do they want that back but feel it's proper to do so? Oh wait, I have to pick a side, either I hate Muslims or I hate gays.

I hate the Fark Tard that committed this horrible act of violence. I don't hate gays nor do I hate Muslims and if you knew me as a conservative that has both in my immediate family you would know this to be true. Instead we roll everyone up into a nice little Trump package just because we hold conservative values?

If you think the USA has performed more acts of evil than any other country then you need to look back at History a little bit more. Have we had our "evil " moments, yes of course, Native Americans and African Americans are solid proof to the evils that have happened here, but nothing near to what history has to teach us. In the last 100 years you could start with Germany, Russia, Italy and the list goes on.



No.  Trump Conservatives are comparing themselves to Sharia Law and advocating it.  That is the old law of Abraham that you see manifested in all the illegal acts they do such as putting the 10 Commandments on the capital property.  Listen to the people around you at work - I would bet that most of them are all about "going back to the good ole days."  What Bible based things do you want to see put in place in this country?   I would bet money that it isn't New Testament stuff.  And anything from the Old Testament is, by definition, the old law...Sharia Law.  The Old Law of Abraham IS Sharia Law.  Another one of those points of historical fact that is somehow getting lost in the extremist right propaganda stream.

Why would you have to hate anyone?  You don't have to unless you choose to.

Why would Trump work so hard at holding up the 'mirror' to the Hijacked Republican party - all he is doing is verbalizing what they have been working toward for decades - while spewing glittering generalities of "conservatism" ala Rupert Murdoch, Koch Brothers, Faux News.  Every Trump supporter/advocate - and that appears to be closing in on about 25 to 30% of the US population - IS not a real conservative...they (true conservatives) are something else!



I need to look at history??  That is rich....I have.  What is more interesting and borderline appalling is how anyone can possibly think that Germany, Russia, and Italy at their worst can even be at the same table compared to the extermination of 90 million + Native Americans in this country?  Or 300 + years of slavery/torture/brutality/murder of Africans?   Wow!  Cannot even begin to wrap my head around that one....  Those 3 looked to us for example and inspiration and even with their "best" efforts, were unable to achieve more than a fraction of what was done here.  All of them added together!


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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
erfalf
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« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2016, 02:18:50 pm »


I need to look at history??  That is rich....I have.  What is more interesting and borderline appalling is how anyone can possibly think that Germany, Russia, and Italy at their worst can even be at the same table compared to the extermination of 90 million + Native Americans in this country?  Or 300 + years of slavery/torture/brutality/murder of Africans?   Wow!  Cannot even begin to wrap my head around that one....  Those 3 looked to us for example and inspiration and even with their "best" efforts, were unable to achieve more than a fraction of what was done here.  All of them added together!

Hyperbole much?

90 million native American's. First of all, at most it has been estimated there were roughly 15,000,000 in all of North America prior to European arrival. Second, most were not "exterminated" (although some were in Connecticut). They died mainly because we forcibly took the country from them, and in the process brought diseases that they were not accustomed to. You can thank those European murderers later for the existence of this miserable land called the USA.

While slavery was horrific, it is not something we invented, and the forefathers had brains enough to write a governing document that allowed for the ending of the practice. American's are hardly the sole group to blame for this practice, and in fact if you were so unfortunate to be a slave, you were lucky to be sold west (as opposed to east). If we did it the way they did, there were be no people of African decent in the US today. It's all relative.
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