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November 21, 2017, 04:44:25 pm
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Author Topic: Here's another radical thought: Protected bike lanes on every main road  (Read 6453 times)
davideinstein
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« on: April 08, 2016, 04:07:54 pm »

Start with 11th and Peoria to coincide with the BRT.

Then slowly work your way to every main road in Tulsa. 21st, 31st...71st! On roads like Peoria abd 11th you add a turning lane in the middle with one lane for each direction. The traffic will flow just as smooth but a tad slower which would be safer to begin with. The rest of the road would be for protected bike lanes. You could even use eminent domain to expand the road for more advanced protected bike lanes.

How rad would that make Tulsa?
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Tulsasaurus Rex
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2016, 08:26:14 am »

Using eminent domain does not make a town "rad"
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Ed W
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2016, 03:23:30 pm »

No. Just no. Tulsa already has bike lanes. Perhaps you never noticed them because they were never maintained. The remains can be seen along Archer and Mohawk Blvd. Just splash some paint on the road, take the all-important grant and CMAQ monies tied to bicycling "facilities", and go your merry way. What? There's no funding for maintenance? Too bad, so sad. Let 'em rot.

Of course, there's another way, one that is known to work and doesn't require special facilities. LAB teaches it, as well as CyclingSavvy, and some self-instruction. The Tulsa Hub can teach you too. The big difference is these programs will maker you a better, safer rider rather than a superstitious believer in the power of Magick Paint.
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Ed

"In a democracy, people get the government they deserve"...Joseph de Maistre
dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2016, 06:48:29 pm »

Sure, go ahead, once you figure out how the bicyclist are going to pay for the ~$200k/mile to build your protected lanes. How about this, state can require license for the bike and the rider, (requires initial testing, and annual renewal for both) and a surcharge tax on tires and tubes to pay for it. Also, new traffic laws requiring safety gear and lighting to be used at all time, also you have to abide by traffic laws and regualtions and fines for violations similar to cars, and since you will be on public roads, you must carry liability insurance in case you are at fault for an accident. That should help pay for some of it.
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Breadburner
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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2016, 09:41:54 pm »

Start with 11th and Peoria to coincide with the BRT.

Then slowly work your way to every main road in Tulsa. 21st, 31st...71st! On roads like Peoria abd 11th you add a turning lane in the middle with one lane for each direction. The traffic will flow just as smooth but a tad slower which would be safer to begin with. The rest of the road would be for protected bike lanes. You could even use eminent domain to expand the road for more advanced protected bike lanes.

How rad would that make Tulsa?

Radically Stupid.....!!
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davideinstein
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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2016, 11:41:05 pm »

No. Just no. Tulsa already has bike lanes. Perhaps you never noticed them because they were never maintained. The remains can be seen along Archer and Mohawk Blvd. Just splash some paint on the road, take the all-important grant and CMAQ monies tied to bicycling "facilities", and go your merry way. What? There's no funding for maintenance? Too bad, so sad. Let 'em rot.

Of course, there's another way, one that is known to work and doesn't require special facilities. LAB teaches it, as well as CyclingSavvy, and some self-instruction. The Tulsa Hub can teach you too. The big difference is these programs will maker you a better, safer rider rather than a superstitious believer in the power of Magick Paint.

http://usa.streetsblog.org/2015/09/02/protected-bike-lanes-7-times-more-effective-than-painted-ones-survey-says/
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davideinstein
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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2016, 11:45:38 pm »

Sure, go ahead, once you figure out how the bicyclist are going to pay for the ~$200k/mile to build your protected lanes. How about this, state can require license for the bike and the rider, (requires initial testing, and annual renewal for both) and a surcharge tax on tires and tubes to pay for it. Also, new traffic laws requiring safety gear and lighting to be used at all time, also you have to abide by traffic laws and regualtions and fines for violations similar to cars, and since you will be on public roads, you must carry liability insurance in case you are at fault for an accident. That should help pay for some of it.

http://grist.org/cities/2010-09-27-why-an-additional-road-tax-for-bicyclists-would-be-unfair/
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Ed W
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2016, 07:13:45 am »


Please note that this isn't an actual increase in safety. It's a survey about whether people FEEL safe. Those are two very different things.

Other problems: how do you remove snow without removing the bollards? How do you run a street sweeper in these narrow lanes? How does a cyclist make a left turn?

Bike lanes - of all sorts - are an attempted solution to overcome "fear from the rear" the very real fear many have of being hit from behind. Statistically, these comprise about 8 % of cycling fatalities, and about half of those involve an unlit cyclist riding at night. The majority of fatalities, if I recall right as 60%, involve turning movements at intersections. Bike lanes do nothing to mitigate these crashes. In fact, they make turning movement more complicated for all users.

If we're going to spend public money on infrastructure that provides real benefits rather than illusory ones, we need traffic signals that reliably detect cyclists. We need smooth, clean road surfaces free of cracks and road furniture than can cause falls. Simple falls are responsible for 85% of injuries. We need driver education and bicyclist education.
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Ed

"In a democracy, people get the government they deserve"...Joseph de Maistre
davideinstein
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2016, 07:24:17 am »

Please note that this isn't an actual increase in safety. It's a survey about whether people FEEL safe. Those are two very different things.

Other problems: how do you remove snow without removing the bollards? How do you run a street sweeper in these narrow lanes? How does a cyclist make a left turn?

Bike lanes - of all sorts - are an attempted solution to overcome "fear from the rear" the very real fear many have of being hit from behind. Statistically, these comprise about 8 % of cycling fatalities, and about half of those involve an unlit cyclist riding at night. The majority of fatalities, if I recall right as 60%, involve turning movements at intersections. Bike lanes do nothing to mitigate these crashes. In fact, they make turning movement more complicated for all users.

If we're going to spend public money on infrastructure that provides real benefits rather than illusory ones, we need traffic signals that reliably detect cyclists. We need smooth, clean road surfaces free of cracks and road furniture than can cause falls. Simple falls are responsible for 85% of injuries. We need driver education and bicyclist education.

I'm with you on maintaining infrastructure.

Here is how the intersections should look:
http://www.peopleforbikes.org/blog/entry/americas-first-protected-intersection-is-open-in-davis-and-working-like-a-c
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AquaMan
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2016, 10:04:35 am »

Its the damn shortcuts that drivers and bicyclists employ that drive me nuts.

Todays drivers haven't used a turn signal since their drivers test since that is their default cell phone hand. They can't parallel park, they can't back up without cameras and speed limits to them are mere suggestions. I spend most of my day driving a commercial vehicle and am stunned at the stupidity. Once a week I have a driver whip around my vehicle, blind to whats happening in an intersection, in order to run a red light!

Bicyclists are blind to safety as well. They are abusive on pedestrian/bike paths, rude to drivers who frankly, never saw them. Egotistical enough to think the road laws are anything close to reality and just as likely to run lights, turn without warning and ride the sidewalks when the street is too congested.

I say this with much frustration at how little we seem to be able to impact these groups. On the way to work last Friday at 5:45 am, I slowed down on a sidestreet that I use to get to Southwest Blvd because it is a low visibility intersection and people run the light. Just as I approached the intersection I noticed something to my right and instinctively braked. From behind a bush came a bike at full speed, on the sidewalk, on the wrong side of the street who ran the red light because he couldn't see to his left where I was arriving. He had flashing red lights on the bike but no other safety equipment like helmets, headlight.

I love my bike. I gave my bike away.

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Ed W
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2016, 11:36:25 am »

I'll reiterate this and then I'm done.. "Bike lanes...make turning movement more complicated for all users...spend public money on infrastructure that provides real benefits rather than illusory ones."

I recommend you read some LABreform pages.
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Ed

"In a democracy, people get the government they deserve"...Joseph de Maistre
davideinstein
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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2016, 12:33:20 pm »

I have a semi-protected bike lane right in front of my house. We use it all of the time and it doesn't connect to anything except going from Yale to Memorial. Guess what parts of 4th we ride our bikes the most?

I gave you the link to the intersection problems. It's time for our city and this forum to progress on the issue.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 12:35:39 pm by davideinstein » Logged
cannon_fodder
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« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2016, 08:03:22 am »

Bike lanes help everyone, not just cyclists. For every cyclist commuting to work, there is one less car on the road. For every cyclist out on a Saturday, there is less likelihood that person will be taking up medical resources when you have your heart attack.

I ride my bike on Tulsa streets all the time. 90% of my street riding is on "share the road" bike routes.  36th street. Pittsburgh. 3rd street. I have few, if any, problems on these streets. I generally try to stay just outside the curb (too much crap on the curb) and occupy the full lane when there isn't room for a car to safely pass or when the intersection demands it (right lane turn only). Like a motorcycle rider, I assume no one sees me, everyone wants to cut me off, and that if I screw up - I'm the one that dies and the Humvee needs a new bumper. Do you think we wear those bright-donkey-colors to be cool? NO! They're "don't squish me" colors. 75% of cars are very respectful, 15% at least treat me like any other vehicle, 5% are stupid or blind, and at most 5% are hostile (at most).

Now, I admit to rolling stop signs (just like every car and motorcycle, including police officers, do). I admit to running red lights when they aren't going to turn for me (as allowed by law, and the alternative is to stop cross traffic with the pedestrian button which would piss you off too).  And yes, I've hopped onto sidewalks (either because the road isn't safe to ride on or because sitting in a line of traffic further hinders the line of traffic [I can't get going as fast as you can when you are waived through eventually]). So if those things cause you to hate me, you must be a really hateful person.

Clearly the bike trails are awesome too and most of my miles are probably on trails, but I have to get to the bike trails and sometimes I am actually going somewhere. The share the road lanes are a luxury largely confined to midtown and the river trails. The further away you get, the less useful they are. Try to find a safe way to bike to Woodland Hills Mall, or any of the office buildings near I44 and 169, or Memorial and 111th.

We do pretty well as a City. But I think there is low hanging fruit. Google has great maps showing Bike Trails and "bike friendly roads." I'm guessing a clever planner could find a few more bike friendly roads to help connect things.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tulsa,+OK/@36.1154635,-95.9717851,13z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x87b692b8ddd12e8f:0xe76910c81bd96af7!5m1!1e3

After that, David's idea of a protected lanes might make sense on a more limited scale.  Particularly around south Tulsa, where the roads are being redone, there is plenty of room, there are no share the road bike lanes, drivers get pissed if it has to slow for school children, and many affluent people cycle. Connecting those areas, and those people (who are more likely to have shower facilities at work!) to the trails and other bike share areas would free up parking at River Trails and maybe take a few cars off the road at rush hour.  If nothing else, it makes Tulsa a more inviting city.

All that said --- just like motorcycles, inattentive driving by other drivers is the leading cause of death for cyclists. Any number of common idiot driver maneuvers that often cause crashes, can be fatal when the receiving end is a motorcycle or bike. Protected bike lanes are great, but from a practical standpoint cannot be put everywhere and won't stop every disaster. I'd love to see some limited use as a start, and we can see what works best in Tulsa.

-----

If you're interested, as a driver please:

1) give us 3 feet when you pass. Not only is it the law, but it is the distance you must give us to safely pass.  If I can reach out and touch (or key) your car, you're too close. Trust me, I want to let you pass... as soon as I can, I will.

2) Please don't ride my wheel. I know you're there and you aren't helping me go any faster. I will get over as soon as I can.

3) Don't run red lights.

4) Don't pull out in front of me like I don't exist. Slamming on my breaks often leads to a crash. Plus, I worked really hard to build up that speed!

5) Please look twice. Motorcycles, cyclists, etc. are there. You have to look to see them!

6) Yes, yes. We all see you are a big tough guy with a brand new truck fully capable of squishing a cyclist. Thank you for being a courteous driver and not a jerk.

And cyclists:

1) Yes, you have the right to occupy the full lane and go as slow as you want. So does grandma. I hate you both when I'm trying to get to work.  If you can safely get out of the way, please do; it's just being courteous to others. If you can't get over right now, I understand and am happy to wait a safe distance back until you can.

2) Don't run red lights. At stop signs, you are required to stop just like everyone else. And yes, in the real world I realize that often means "yield" to the point where you can immateriality stop if you have to (which is still illegal for both cars and bikes), but at least do the same thing you would do in your car.  Its confusing for cars when they don't know if you're going to blow through or not. So following the same rules makes it easy.

3) Some roads aren't good roads for bikes. Avoid them. Again, yes, you have the right to troll down Memorial at 5:15 pumping away at 20mph. But it isn't safe for you or other driver's and it leads to rage. I get that sometimes you have to, but try not to.

4) Please pick one: 1) I am a child and want to ride my bike on the sidewalk and be treated like a pedestrian, 2) I am an adult and want to ride my bike on the street and be treated like traffic.  Now that you have picked one, please think really hard before deviating from whatever it is you picked. If you are taking up a lane and then at the red light swerve between cars, over the curb, through the parking lot, and "around" the light. . .  not only does it piss people off, but no one knows how to treat you visa vis the rules of the road.  I'm practical, I'm not saying you can't "ever" bend the rules... but think about it before making it a habit. Just sit and wait with traffic. It will be OK if your heart rate drops out of your prime zone.

5) Yes, yes. We all see your new Dura Ace full carbon gear and note your awesome calves. You are a spectacular peacock. Thank you for being a courteous cyclist and not a jerk.
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AquaMan
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« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2016, 11:38:27 am »

That's good Cannon. Education, patience, logic and courtesy go a long way. Meanwhile, reality is that professionals in all areas know these things. Most people are not that smart. They are just passing through, trying to stay relevant, cool, alive and free. For some odd reason they are still able to get drivers licenses and buy bicycles. Go figure.

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Conan71
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« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2016, 12:33:16 pm »

May I add to Cannonís notion of inattentive drivers:  Insensitive drivers.

Once people are in their steel, plastic, and aluminum cage, they cease to see other drivers, only vehicles.  They forget thatís someone elseís husband, wife, daughter, son, brother, sister, etc. behind the wheel or riding on those other vehicles on the road.  There seems to be little concern for the human life that is either riding in or powering that vehicle.

Yet one more reason I seldom ride my motorcycles and my road riding on a bicycle is very limited these days.
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