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patric
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« on: March 04, 2016, 11:39:20 pm »

Defense secretary calls BS on FBI claim America safer with weaker data security


Defense Secretary Ashton B. Carter assured an audience of computer security experts Wednesday that he was not in favor of a “back door” that would give the government access to data that is protected by encryption.

Speaking at the annual RSA Conference, Secretary Carter sought common ground with companies worried by Apple’s fight with the Federal Bureau of Investigation over access to an iPhone.

“Just to cut to the chase, I’m not a believer in back doors or a single technical approach,” Secretary Carter said to loud applause during a panel discussion at the conference. “I don’t think it’s realistic. I don’t think that’s technically accurate.”

Apple is resisting a court order that would require it to create software to break the password mechanism in an iPhone used by one of the assailants in the December shooting in San Bernardino, Calif.

The F.B.I. argues that it is not asking for any sort of permanent back door and is merely asking for help in circumventing a single phone’s password protection.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/03/technology/defense-secretary-takes-position-against-a-data-back-door.html


Meanwhile, hundreds of "single phones" seized all over the U.S. await their turn.
http://www.cnet.com/news/apple-deluged-by-police-demands-to-decrypt-iphones
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AquaMan
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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2016, 09:18:51 am »

Answer me this. When has a technology, or for that matter any innovation, remained solely the province of one country or entity? There are no technologies that can't eventually be stolen, copied, circumvented or overcome in some manner. History is replete with attempts but I am not aware of any successes in keeping new things to themselves. From the China Wall to airplanes, German code breakers, rockets, space exploration, nuclear to todays I-phones. There is no real security.

Did anyone see the founder of the security software company who said, "give me five tech experts and a week and I'll break into the terrorists I-phone". Can't remember his name but he is quite infamous.

Why do we continue to believe we can keep security by blocking our own access to it? Better to keep changing, evolving, misleading, out thinking our enemies to continually stay a step ahead instead of promoting a falsehood. Or maybe that's what all this is.
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TulsaMoon
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« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2016, 09:43:49 am »

Answer me this. When has a technology, or for that matter any innovation, remained solely the province of one country or entity? There are no technologies that can't eventually be stolen, copied, circumvented or overcome in some manner. History is replete with attempts but I am not aware of any successes in keeping new things to themselves. From the China Wall to airplanes, German code breakers, rockets, space exploration, nuclear to todays I-phones. There is no real security.

Did anyone see the founder of the security software company who said, "give me five tech experts and a week and I'll break into the terrorists I-phone". Can't remember his name but he is quite infamous.

Why do we continue to believe we can keep security by blocking our own access to it? Better to keep changing, evolving, misleading, out thinking our enemies to continually stay a step ahead instead of promoting a falsehood. Or maybe that's what all this is.

I think that was McAfee? Isn't that the guy hiding in another country somewhere for fear of facing some sort of criminal charges?

Completely agree with your post. It's area 51. It doesn't exist, nothing to see here. Promote the opposite and cause a conspiracy theory. If one tech guy has confidence that he can crack that phone in 5 days, I bet my favorite purple shorts that it has already been cracked by our Government and that this smoke screen is to make the people think they can't crack it and give us all comfort knowing our naked selfies are safe.....see, it's working.
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AquaMan
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« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2016, 10:53:45 am »

Yes, McAfee. He got in some physical altercation and is accused of murder I think.

This might be a new record. We solved this mystery in three posts!

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patric
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« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2016, 11:23:16 am »

Why do we continue to believe we can keep security by blocking our own access to it? Better to keep changing, evolving, misleading, out thinking our enemies to continually stay a step ahead instead of promoting a falsehood. Or maybe that's what all this is.

http://venturebeat.com/2016/02/27/the-fbis-apple-hack-would-be-a-big-shiny-gift-to-criminals

Think of what online banking would be without encryption.  ...Then look at the track record of the people that insist they can keep backdoors out of the hands of bad guys.  A 16-year-old in England waltzed through the FBI's database recently, sheesh.

The only thing different about the San Bernadino case and the hundreds (if not thousands) of cases before it is the FBI was able to attach the word "terrorism" to it so they could try the case in the media.

Oh and McAfee. Noone has made a movie about him yet?  The Belize government lost interest in his "crimes" once they seized his mansion, so it looks like his biggest legal problem is a DUI in Tennessee.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McAfee
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AquaMan
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« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2016, 12:24:08 pm »

You couldn't have online banking without encryption, but you can't rely on the same encryption for very long. Banks and credit card companies are subject to the same 15 year old hackers unless they constantly dodge and weave. So, I think both parties to this argument are being quite dishonest. There is no safety, there is no security without constant vigilance.
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2016, 09:49:58 pm »

This would all be simpler if Apple couldn't hack in, and that is almost true at this point. The only way to do a "backdoor" in this situation is to upgrade with a hacked version of the OS. I'm guessing an update from Apple will make it so you can't force an upgrade like that without wiping the data.
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AquaMan
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2016, 09:04:59 am »

I'm obviously not a tech mindset. What do you think of McAfee's statement that, given a week and some help, he could break into the I-phone?
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2016, 10:40:56 am »

I'm obviously not a tech mindset. What do you think of McAfee's statement that, given a week and some help, he could break into the I-phone?

He's full of it
http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/03/john-mcafee-better-prepare-to-eat-a-shoe-because-he-doesnt-know-how-iphones-work/
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AquaMan
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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2016, 12:39:52 pm »

He's been consuming too much of the island rum.
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Vashta Nerada
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« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2016, 07:40:10 pm »

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2016, 09:36:04 am »

Evidently the FBI had access to the phone and screwed it up somehow...not sure what they did, but sounded like they tried to change the password, or otherwise messed it up.

When ya got something that is working - first, don't screw it up!!

Not a lot of sympathy for their arguments here just yet.

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« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2016, 10:05:21 am »

Evidently the FBI had access to the phone and screwed it up somehow...not sure what they did, but sounded like they tried to change the password, or otherwise messed it up.

When ya got something that is working - first, don't screw it up!!

Not a lot of sympathy for their arguments here just yet.

By resetting the password law enforcement could gain access to his backup files - which do not have the same level of encryption and are subject to subpoena. However, they did not allow the phone to backup prior to resetting the password (presumably by bringing it within range of open wifi?). Thus, the data they gained access to was not the most current data.

I have little sympathy for the FBI position. I have zero sympathy for the terrorists, but allowing access to everything is not the solution to a single problem. As has been pointed out ad naseum, if the FBI can have access so can China and Russia and Iran (and Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and...). I'm not even comfortable with our government having access - we know they always say it will only be used in a limited way, and then we learn that the limited way is often "because he maybe possible thought someone said something mean about his wife" or the mayor or whatever.

They have the meta data showing every person he was in contact with. They can gain access to his email account. They can review his backup files. They can correspond with the recipients of his contacts and see what was discussed. The can contact his ISP and see what website he has been visiting. Using the GPS settings and tower pings they can track his location back a couple of months. I'm not saying there isn't something useful - but I doubt there is anything grounbreaking.

And that's ignoring my issue with Uncle Sam telling Apple they have to make a master key. Tell Ford the same thing? How about my gun safe? Safety deposit box?  Oh, right... they aren't worried about those things, because if they wanted to get in they'd just break in. So no problem there.
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patric
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« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2016, 11:22:40 am »


I have little sympathy for the FBI position. I have zero sympathy for the terrorists, but allowing access to everything is not the solution to a single problem. As has been pointed out ad naseum, if the FBI can have access so can China and Russia and Iran (and Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and...). I'm not even comfortable with our government having access - we know they always say it will only be used in a limited way, and then we learn that the limited way is often "because he maybe possible thought someone said something mean about his wife" or the mayor or whatever.

When "the authorities" run the spectrum from "San Bernardino police chief says there's a 'reasonably good chance that there's nothing of any value' on shooter's iPhone" to "it may harbor a 'lying-dormant cyber pathogen'" we could just as easily say that we need to crack these "dangerous products" (DA's words) to protect against ninja attacks and uncover the existence of God, because you cant prove that data ISNT there. 

When even the former heads of NSA and DHS say the FBI picked the wrong test case...

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« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2016, 11:58:38 am »

In the meantime, Amazon removed encryption from all of their devices and then rapidly said they will put it back.
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