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November 22, 2017, 03:58:48 pm
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Author Topic: 2016 Tulsa Mayoral Race  (Read 11745 times)
Ibanez
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« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2016, 09:39:55 am »

And replaced with "conservative", "liberal", "libertarian", "progressive", "anti-immigration", "lobbyist", etc? Politicians live by labels as they are an easy distillation of complex issues that the worker bees can process. You can change it to non-partisan but we all know a liberal when we hear them make complete sentences after thoughtful deliberation.

Yes, because we know all conservatives are mouth breathing morons, right?

Be a part of the solution, not the problem.

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AquaMan
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« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2016, 10:22:40 am »

Yes, because we know all conservatives are mouth breathing morons, right?

Be a part of the solution, not the problem.



Must have hurt plenty when you landed after such a huge jump to that conclusion. Not all conservatives are mouth breathing morons, but all mouth breathing morons profess to be conservatives.

Not correctly identifying and addressing problems is the problem. You think renaming the issue as a partisan problem is going to be a solution? That is the current vogue. I don't.

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #77 on: June 29, 2016, 10:43:34 am »

Yes, because we know all conservatives are mouth breathing morons, right?

Be a part of the solution, not the problem.




I think part of the solution just got put into place yesterday!  Great hopes for Bynum's term.  Wish we didn't have to wait so long for him to take office.

Just gotta wonder what kind of nasty little 'stink-bomb' Dooby is gonna lay while we are waiting?  Can he be impeached in the meantime??  Maybe he will do the decent thing and just go ahead and resign....!!   Naw,.....it's Dooby....


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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
Ibanez
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« Reply #78 on: June 29, 2016, 10:55:58 am »

Must have hurt plenty when you landed after such a huge jump to that conclusion. Not all conservatives are mouth breathing morons, but all mouth breathing morons profess to be conservatives.

Not correctly identifying and addressing problems is the problem. You think renaming the issue as a partisan problem is going to be a solution? That is the current vogue. I don't.



How else would someone be expected to interpret "we all know a liberal when we hear them make complete sentences after thoughtful deliberation."

The problem is partisanship. The whole my side vs. your side that has taken over politics is disgusting. I know many people who will only vote Republican or Democrat because "The other side are assholes/evil/trying to ruin the country/etc, etc, etc..." These people, blind as they are, keep electing people who have their own self interest or the interest of the party above that of the voter. Remove partisan labels, make it against the rules for candidates to even mention which party they belong to and it will hopefully force people to listen to the issues and it will help change things. Is that 100% of the solution? Of course, not, but it is a step in the right direction. We need to get back to electing people who are willing to work on issues and compromise when needed to get things done. Right now that isn't happening, at least not much, for fear of alienating the party.

Even better, abolish the party system entirely. You shouldn't have to register as a member of a particular party in order run for office or to cast your vote. The rules we have in place now only serve to keep the two party system in place and that is a detriment to us all.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 10:57:58 am by Ibanez » Logged
AquaMan
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« Reply #79 on: June 29, 2016, 11:14:39 am »

In your mind there was no other interpretation. That is your box, not mine.

Changing names doesn't solve anything. When Gingrich changed "inheritance tax" to "death tax" it didn't solve the issue of whether the tax was fair or useful. It just swayed opinion.

The problem is defining people with labels that don't adequately represent their views in order to accomplish their own goals. It doesn't matter whether there is truth or fact to back up those labels. It doesn't matter if its in the people's interest. Labels will always be used to sway opinion.

More importantly, the problem is that we elect people based on the wrong criteria. I didn't care that GT Bynum might be a republican, a conservative or Christian. He seemed to be COMPETENT! He championed a controversial v2025 vote and did so with straight forward logic, intelligence and belief. He is smart. He makes complete sentences after deliberative contemplation. Yet, because of that, Conan's boss didn't quite trust that he wasn't (shudder...) a progressive.

We all know competent people when we meet them. The busy people who still have time to talk but do so judiciously. The one mistake Atkinson made against Bridenstein was in not being himself. He tried to out conservative him and people saw through it. If he had merely spoken the obvious earlier in the campaign, quote, "He hasn't done anything in the last four years" which I heard him say during his watch party, he would have struck a chord.

Competence is the issue being ignored when labels are easier.

BTW, I totally agree on either eliminating party identification as criteria for being on the ballot, or, opening the party affiliation to include numerous smaller parties. That way coalitions are formed with folks of diverse competencies.
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Hoss
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« Reply #80 on: June 29, 2016, 12:55:22 pm »

Yes, because we know all conservatives are mouth breathing morons, right?

Be a part of the solution, not the problem.



I have to harken back to one of my old signatures:

Quote
Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives. John Stuart Mill

It sure gets the ires of many of my conservative friends/family and acquaintances up when I use this.  But it's so apropos these days.
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Ibanez
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« Reply #81 on: June 29, 2016, 02:07:52 pm »

In your mind there was no other interpretation. That is your box, not mine.

Changing names doesn't solve anything. When Gingrich changed "inheritance tax" to "death tax" it didn't solve the issue of whether the tax was fair or useful. It just swayed opinion.

The problem is defining people with labels that don't adequately represent their views in order to accomplish their own goals. It doesn't matter whether there is truth or fact to back up those labels. It doesn't matter if its in the people's interest. Labels will always be used to sway opinion.

More importantly, the problem is that we elect people based on the wrong criteria. I didn't care that GT Bynum might be a republican, a conservative or Christian. He seemed to be COMPETENT! He championed a controversial v2025 vote and did so with straight forward logic, intelligence and belief. He is smart. He makes complete sentences after deliberative contemplation. Yet, because of that, Conan's boss didn't quite trust that he wasn't (shudder...) a progressive.

We all know competent people when we meet them. The busy people who still have time to talk but do so judiciously. The one mistake Atkinson made against Bridenstein was in not being himself. He tried to out conservative him and people saw through it. If he had merely spoken the obvious earlier in the campaign, quote, "He hasn't done anything in the last four years" which I heard him say during his watch party, he would have struck a chord.

Competence is the issue being ignored when labels are easier.

BTW, I totally agree on either eliminating party identification as criteria for being on the ballot, or, opening the party affiliation to include numerous smaller parties. That way coalitions are formed with folks of diverse competencies.

Which is why I said what I did about removing the R, D, whatever. Labels, for the most part keep people from seeing past them and listening to what someone has to say/believes and thus removes critical thinking from the voting process for a great deal of the electorate. They see the R or D and mark their ballot accordingly without ever giving it a thought. It also makes it far easier to pull the whole us v them BS that both major parties do. Really, we are both saying the same thing here. No argument from me at all on the use of labels.

Again, I take exception to your comment about being able to identify liberals by their use of complete sentences. It is a slap at conservatives and is exactly the type of insulting "my side is better than yours" crap that has gotten us to where we are today as a city, state and country.  It sounds like a funny quip, but is really the "we are better than the other side because of who we are and what we believe" attitude that I find off-putting. I know many highly intelligent conservatives, just as I know many nearly illiterate ones. The exact same can be said about the liberals I know. Some are highly intelligent, some I am certain cannot tie their own shoes. Neither side has an exclusive contract on brains or the lack thereof.

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Ibanez
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« Reply #82 on: June 29, 2016, 02:10:39 pm »

John Stuart Mill

Great, now I have Bruce's Philosopher's Song stuck in my head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9SqQNgDrgg
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AquaMan
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« Reply #83 on: June 29, 2016, 03:48:48 pm »

Again, I take exception to your comment about being able to identify liberals by their use of complete sentences. It is a slap at conservatives and is exactly the type of insulting "my side is better than yours" crap that has gotten us to where we are today as a city, state and country.  It sounds like a funny quip, but is really the "we are better than the other side because of who we are and what we believe" attitude that I find off-putting. I know many highly intelligent conservatives, just as I know many nearly illiterate ones. The exact same can be said about the liberals I know. Some are highly intelligent, some I am certain cannot tie their own shoes. Neither side has an exclusive contract on brains or the lack thereof.



With your perception of my remark, it would be a slap at anyone but liberals, not just conservatives. It was a remark I copped from some one on TV regarding Trump supporters actually. The person said that Trump supporters were skeptical of anyone using full sentences. And I used it again regarding our new Mayor to prove a point. He is smart. People who are smart, well educated, well dressed and polite in Oklahoma are often presumed to be gay, liberal, progressive, dilettantes, or liars. Just noting facts. You unfortunately assumed it could only be an insult to conservatives.

I continue to believe that labels are in our DNA. Just like Native American and African heritage. We all have some liberal, some conservative, some libertarian, some socialist and some fascism in our personalities. But some of us can sing and some can't.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #84 on: June 29, 2016, 04:53:32 pm »

Great, now I have Bruce's Philosopher's Song stuck in my head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9SqQNgDrgg



Dino yasss.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emA-IK2RcKY
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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
Conan71
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« Reply #85 on: June 29, 2016, 08:34:12 pm »

Guys, please take the liberal v. conservative banter to a PM, if it must continue...please!
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davideinstein
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« Reply #86 on: June 29, 2016, 09:49:03 pm »

Guys, please take the liberal v. conservative banter to a PM, if it must continue...please!

It matters so little at the local level.
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Hoss
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« Reply #87 on: June 30, 2016, 06:14:17 am »

It matters so little at the local level.

But the funny thing is watching Regalado's campaign commercial and he sure flaunts that he's a conservative republican.  But yeah, I agree totally.
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Libertarianism is a system of beliefs for people who think adolescence is the epitome of human achievement.

Global warming isn't real because it was cold today.  Also great news: world famine is over because I just ate - Stephen Colbert.

Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...
AquaMan
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« Reply #88 on: June 30, 2016, 07:28:02 am »

What matters is that a mere 14% of registered voters under the age of 40, actually voted. And that is an increase from the average of 10%. Probably all posters from TN.

Curious as to how that compares with other age groups and the city in general.

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Conan71
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« Reply #89 on: June 30, 2016, 08:02:04 am »

What matters is that a mere 14% of registered voters under the age of 40, actually voted. And that is an increase from the average of 10%. Probably all posters from TN.

Curious as to how that compares with other age groups and the city in general.



Total turnouts for the county vote was about 15% and for the city was 29% I think I heard.

And likely those people in the 71% who didn’t vote are the ones who grumble the loudest about how bad our city government sucks.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
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