Why is the BA so crappy?

[cannon_fodder]

I commuted to work the last five years on the BA, sticking near downtown and midtown area. I recently switched offices and now have a crazy commute (involving my sons's school) that sees Highway 75, a lot of I-44 from the wist side to the east, and sometimes the BA from further east to downtown. Sometimes traffic is horrid and I take 169 to the Creek on around to 75 to get to my sons school. The point is, I'm regularly seeing stretches of highway I only occasional drove before, and in a given week I probably see 90% of the highway inside the City of Tulsa (but for I-244 and north).

My question is: why is the BA from Yale to downtown so crappy?

The road is bad - I've honestly never seen a gravel road in as bad of shape as the BA +/- a mile from the IDL. The south leg of the IDL is similarly terrible. My wife drives a sporty little convertible, we get to test its swerving ability or lose a wheel when we head downtown.

The bridges collapse somewhat regularly. At least once a year part of the decking falls through. "There's a wheel borrow sized hole in the westbound left lane of the BA where it goes over Pittsburgh."  That actually happened in a traffic report, more than once. As I sit in traffic on Harvard I can see light through the road deck in a couple of places. This isn't normal.

The shoulders are never cleaned. Last week traffic was backed up because a green plastic tote fell into the center lane. I go opposite of traffic, I heard it on the radio and then saw it on my way to work the next day... pushed to the shoulder. Last time I drove by, it was still there. Gravel, car parts, trash. The shoulders look awful and are horribly overgrown.

Speaking of overgrown --- the shoulders grow grass. The side of the road is so overgrown branches often hang over the "jersey barriers." It sure looks like hell.

And why are there no sound barriers? The road backs up directly into many backyards. Some apartment complexes use the barriers as the edge of their parking lots. I'm a block off the BA, it doesn't bother me a bit. But it seems strange that so many backyards overlook an overgrown mess and a freeway (maybe they don't want them?).

You go out to I-44 or the Creek and there is 100 yards of mowed grass before the neighborhood starts, then a decorative sound barrier. There are bridges that not only don't collapse, they look nice and might even have artistic features. They have cleaning crews who remove debris from the shoulder and maintenance crews who trim back trees.

I love that the BA was built as much into the city as was possible (instead of the "clear everything" nature of the interstates). I don't mind the rocket on-ramps and unsymmetrical interchanges. I think the railroad down the center is a good use of space.

But I really don't get why the highway is so crappy?

[TheArtist]

Bad urban design. Aka, double the roads "lane miles" needed per the population, lousy planning of where we live/work/play leading to more driving on the roads, bad zoning which pushes for more sprawl, roads, and more auto usage on them versus promoting transit which would lessen road need/usage/wear and tear, relatively poor populace that is forced to pay for auto's and then doesn't also want to pay for the overabundance of roads caused by the aforementioned.  etc. etc.

[AquaMan]

It would likely take an insider with the city to really know why, but I have to concur with the description of the roads that CF gave. The repairs/maintenance don't seem to be based on the poverty of an area. Hwy 75 from I-44 to about 41st is awful. BA from Yale to 75 is awful. Downtown south to Yale is also sketchy. I suspect it is an analysis that includes traffic count, weather, federal funding availability, and resource management. IOW, they are likely triaging the process.

In the old days the BA was always re-surfaced when the Mayor was up for re-election.

[YoungTulsan]

My first guess would be that ODOT relies heavily on federal money to get anything done about highway maintenence and reconstruction.  They aren't sending any money Tulsa's way that will cramp OKC's growth.  So if it isn't getting the majority of funding from the federal pot, we better fund it via tolls.  Since the BA is neither an interstate or OTA funded, nobody gives a damn that it isn't up to rickshaw grade.  US 169 will probably look the same in 20 years, it just isn't old enough yet to have multiple generations of neglect.

[YoungTulsan]

Hwy 75 from I-44 to about 41st is awful.

How odd, just south of where it loses shared interstate signage with 244.

[YoungTulsan]

As far as the debris removal and lack of landscaping, I wonder if ODOT and the city of Tulsa have a difference of opinion as to where the responsibility lies.

[heironymouspasparagus]

But I really don't get why the highway is so crappy?

Neglect.

That's one of those questions like, "why was the Civic Center maintenance neglected for as long as it was..."?

One part is 1962 design/engineering/construction for 1958 traffic load and patterns.  And no real attention, repair or upgrades in the intervening years.  Look how bad I-44 was for how long and add 15 - 20 years to it and you have the coming history of the BA - IF it gets the attention that soon!!

I mentioned somewhere here in back issues that we could at least add some of the wall treatments like are done on the other expressways/turnpikes.  Would keep the noise out of neighborhoods and provide some small cosmetic value.  Still gotta deal with the fundamental failure of ODOT, City of Tulsa, and Fed DOT to get anything going here on that road.  (All 3 are responsible in my mind.)

Since I-44 was just upgraded to adequate for 1989 traffic flows, and given the fact that there would be so much hue and cry trying to acquire width for the BA to bring it up to 1989 needs, I suspect that what will happen is similar to what Memphis did with I-40 through town - abandon it and redefine the routing of highway 51 to be somewhere else, like I-244.  People can get into downtown just as easily on 244 as the BA....  Start at Sheridan and work back west to downtown....parks, canals, light rail....


Note;  only part of that last paragraph was 'tongue in cheek'... sadly.

[cannon_fodder]

The BA is US 64 Oklahoma 51 but within the City limits of Tulsa.  I assume there is some split in responsibility, let alone upgrade and planning. But I truly don't know who is even supposed to do what.

[Conan71]

The BA is US 64 Oklahoma 51 but within the City limits of Tulsa.  I assume there is some split in responsibility, let alone upgrade and planning. But I truly don't know who is even supposed to do what.

It would be up to property owners to keep their kudzu from growing through and over the fences which line the BA in the area you are talking about.  I That’s one appearance issue.  As far as the pavement looking like main street in downtown Beirut, it’s misplaced maintenance priorities.  If you notice, there are sections of the south leg of the IDL where they had cut out whole sections of concrete and filled back in with concrete, somewhat of a patchwork effort but smoother than shovel patch.  I wonder if that is any more expensive in the long run than the ol’ shovel patch that seems to be done every time the seasons change.

[sgrizzle]

Retaining walls down both sides and maybe no using low-grade asphalt would be huge helps.

When they did the last round of asphalt they did some weird work around three storm drains in the left lane westbound near harvard. The pavement near the drains is about an inch lower so you drop down then right back up which is a bit drastic at 60mph.

[Conan71]

Retaining walls down both sides and maybe no using low-grade asphalt would be huge helps.

When they did the last round of asphalt they did some weird work around three storm drains in the left lane westbound near harvard. The pavement near the drains is about an inch lower so you drop down then right back up which is a bit drastic at 60mph.

You mean the hump-downs going eastbound?

You should see what it does at 120 MPH. 

[sgrizzle]

You mean the hump-downs going eastbound?

You should see what it does at 120 MPH. 

Yeah, eastbound.

Your bike goes that fast?

[dsjeffries]

When they did the last round of asphalt they did some weird work around three storm drains in the left lane westbound near harvard. The pavement near the drains is about an inch lower so you drop down then right back up which is a bit drastic at 60mph.

You mean the hump-downs going eastbound?

You should see what it does at 120 MPH. 

The westbound drainage grates are a problem, too - that's what happens when you don't rip-and-replace the roadway, you just pour new stuff over it. And I'd say it's more like a 2-3" difference.

[Conan71]

Yeah, eastbound.

Your bike goes that fast?

Sure, when I’m bumper surfing off a crotch rocket!

On a serious note, The BA from downtown through the curve at Sheridan seems to be a favorite of the crotch rocket crowd on weekend nights.  Scary thought what that could do to one of them...and probably already has.  I know they had a fatality at roughly Hudson a month or so back from a rider hitting the inside retaining wall.

[AquaMan]

They like to do wheelies between Harvard and Lewis on the BA at night...in the fast lane. Entertaining but pretty foolhardy.

Part of the damage being done to our streets and highways stems from our own success at rehabbing the city. I have never seen so many dump trucks laden with giant chunks of concrete and demolition debris. They are mostly contractors paid by the trip so they drive aggressively too. Unfortunately they are stressing the poorly patched roads. Add to that the increased tanker truck traffic due to low fuel prices and you have a lot of road damage.